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Thread: To all those 'Federal deficits are no problem' Krugmanites/Keynesians:

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    Re: To all those 'Federal deficits are no problem' Krugmanites/Keynesians:

    Quote Originally Posted by Cigar View Post
    How about Economics
    Very much so and one of the more knowledgeable ones on DP
    Conservatives believe the government is incompetent, and seek to elect people who will prove it
    Ignorance is Bliss Bliss is the same as happiness US Christian conservatives are the happiest in the US according to studies Do you see a connection?

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    Re: To all those 'Federal deficits are no problem' Krugmanites/Keynesians:

    Quote Originally Posted by DA60 View Post
    Can you read that?

    Stick that in your pipes you mega debt/'no debt is too big' ignoramuses and smoke it.

    Only an economic moron of epic proportions actually is SOOOO ignorant to believe that federal debt is no problem..
    I'm not sure where you think you saw a Keynesian or liberal say that federal debt is no problem. I've certainly never heard a liberal say such a thing. Simply that it's not a massive problem, we have bigger problems, and that relatively small changes can bring us back in line. Ultimately we can always pay off our debts, and it makes absolutely no sense to be slashing important programs that benefit our overall economy in the name of bringing down short term deficits.

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    Re: To all those 'Federal deficits are no problem' Krugmanites/Keynesians:

    GUNS OR BUTTER?

    Quote Originally Posted by DA60 View Post
    Only an economic moron of epic proportions actually is SOOOO ignorant to believe that federal debt is no problem...no matter how big it is ('duh...just print more money')
    So, call me a moron. (But, you know that already - don't you! ;^)

    You are making a MOUNTAIN out of a mole-hill. The history of the National Debt, if we go back far enough, looks like this:


    Note that post-WW2, the US was able to reduce its debt. But, why. Because Demand picked up an growth rates of the American economy were almost "euphoric". Can that happen again?

    Possibly, but it "depends". Upon what? The Information Age. Howzat?

    Post-WW2 saw a huge increase in Demand as soldiers returned from war and started looking for jobs. That was "no small thing" because technical innovations that occurred as a result of WW2 were employed generally in the economy. They were many, but just look at air-transportation. The first airline flight of the Labor Force Statistics from the Current Population Survey:


    Lonnnnnnnggggg before the arrival of Donald Dork in the White House, the economy has been repairing itself from the fact that the Replicants - when they took control of the HofR in the 2010 midterms - refused all further Stimulus Spending (of the kind Obama and a Dem Congress applied in 2009 to spike the unemployment rate at 10%).

    The consequence was that Job Creation stagnated.

    So, who is at fault if the American unemployed needed to wait another 4 lonnnggggg years (from 2010 to 2014) for the economy to start creating jobs again? The Replicant HofR, and thus the Replicant Party.

    The uptick in the E-to-P ratio will repair the job-situation (as seen in the infographic above) - but two "issues" arise:
    *The US must make an effort to change "the conditions". We are NOT GOING BACK to the Industrial Age when manufacturing created jobs. We are going forward into the Information Age, where a higher level of postsecondary qualifications are necessary for Services Sector jobs.
    *45% of all secondary-school children today WILL NOT obtain a postsecondary educational degree. Why? Some because they have not been prepared properly for it. But for the most part it is due to the fact that such a degree is too effing expensive for most of them ..
    *So? Without free Tertiary Education, the economy will need to look for "talented people" outside of the US. (Is that what we want? Because that has been happening already.)

    My point: Any regain in the Employment-to-Population Ratio will assist in paying the National Debt - but only if we reduce drastically the appetite of DoD-spending. We are in a "Guns-or-butter?" situation. We cannot have both a voracious DoD-budget and subsidize the massive effort necessary to educate/train our children for the Information Age (which requires a Post-secondary Degree) ...
    Last edited by Lafayette; 07-17-17 at 06:07 AM.
    Where justice is denied, where poverty is enforced, where ignorance prevails, and where any one class is made to feel that society is an organized conspiracy to oppress, rob and degrade them; then neither persons nor property will be safe. (Frederick Douglass)

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    Re: To all those 'Federal deficits are no problem' Krugmanites/Keynesians:

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    Very much so and one of the more knowledgeable ones on DP
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: To all those 'Federal deficits are no problem' Krugmanites/Keynesians:

    Quote Originally Posted by DA60 View Post
    This is from Janet Yellen - Head of the Federal Reserve - said today.

    And remember, she knows a heck of a lot more about this stuff than any Keynesian/Krugmanite on this board.

    'She said lawmakers need to work toward achieving "sustainability of this debt path over time," ...

    "Let me state in the strongest possible terms that I agree" the U.S. federal debt trend is unsustainable, may hurt productivity, and living standards of Americans.'


    Fed Chair Janet Yellen Warns Congress: US Debt Trajectory Is Unsustainable | Zero Hedge

    Can you read that?

    Stick that in your pipes you mega debt/'no debt is too big' ignoramuses and smoke it.

    Only an economic moron of epic proportions actually is SOOOO ignorant to believe that federal debt is no problem...no matter how big it is ('duh...just print more money').


    Have a nice day
    I fully 100% agree. this path of debt we are on is not sustainable. it is a slow leaking damn that will bust and create major economic havoc for everyone involved.
    we have to stop letting just billions of dollars roll out the door in waste.

    Carson just did an audit of the HUD department. 500B dollars in book keeping errors.
    500b dollars. our current deficit is only 440b.

    WTH. We need a full government audit from top to bottom and the entire thing redone.
    we probably lost over 1 trillion dollars in government waste.

    RICHARD RAHN: U.S. government wastes $1 trillion a year - Washington Times

    yet these guys want more of our money.

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    Re: To all those 'Federal deficits are no problem' Krugmanites/Keynesians:

    Quote Originally Posted by ludin View Post
    I fully 100% agree. this path of debt we are on is not sustainable. it is a slow leaking damn that will bust and create major economic havoc for everyone involved.
    Aint necessarily so. If the US were Zimbabwe, maybe. But it isn't.

    The Chinese just LUV to buy T-notes and store their dollars in the US. Which means that, for as long as China does not dump the T-notes on the market (that is, sell them), the US need not worry about its "debt". It is in safe hands with the Chinese. Unless, of course, push comes to shove - but that would be kinda-sorta stoopid.

    After all, the US is THE MAJOR EXPORT MARKET for China.

    Should we be sustaining such a high-debt*. Is there a good reason for it?

    There was when we entered the Great Recession and the debt expanded in order for Uncle Sam to support the unemployed. But, if unemployment is down below 5%, the Employment to Population Ratio is not back up to it last high of 63% before the Great Recession was triggered in 2008.

    If a country wants to spend 54% of its Discretionary Budget on just the DoD, then there is not much else that makes sense as regards spending. If one looks at the part of the Discretionary Budget (here) that is NOT DoD, what expenditure is of any real consequence?

    For most of us, just HealthCare.

    The one that should be important is miniscule - that of the Education Budget. As I keep harping, the DoD budget should be cut in half and the money spent funding free Tertiary Education. Which the country needs desperately to assure future jobs.

    Or companies will keep filling positions by means of short-term visas importing the talent we should be nurturing in our own country. Which visas have an amazing facility for becoming not only long-term but transformed into citizenship.

    Is that a crime? Nope. But why should we be importing migrants to take the jobs that should go to educated Americans. Of which there aren't enough because we have made a post-secondary degree so damn expensive ... !
    Last edited by Lafayette; 07-17-17 at 07:48 PM.
    Where justice is denied, where poverty is enforced, where ignorance prevails, and where any one class is made to feel that society is an organized conspiracy to oppress, rob and degrade them; then neither persons nor property will be safe. (Frederick Douglass)

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    Re: To all those 'Federal deficits are no problem' Krugmanites/Keynesians:

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    US Christian conservatives are the happiest in the US according to studies Do you see a connection?
    Perhaps because they are too simple to ask the right questions?

    Why must there be freedom of religious conscience? Because there is no way on earth to prove there is a God.

    It is purely religious belief without a shred of historical or scientific fact to support it ...
    Where justice is denied, where poverty is enforced, where ignorance prevails, and where any one class is made to feel that society is an organized conspiracy to oppress, rob and degrade them; then neither persons nor property will be safe. (Frederick Douglass)

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    Re: To all those 'Federal deficits are no problem' Krugmanites/Keynesians:

    Americans do not seem to understand that those advanced-degree Visa's are going to people whose tertiary-education was funded by their governments!

    It's a good wager for those governments. The people they send to work in the US typically remit to their families back-home large portions of their salaries.

    Bingo! Jackpot!
    Where justice is denied, where poverty is enforced, where ignorance prevails, and where any one class is made to feel that society is an organized conspiracy to oppress, rob and degrade them; then neither persons nor property will be safe. (Frederick Douglass)

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    Re: To all those 'Federal deficits are no problem' Krugmanites/Keynesians:

    Quote Originally Posted by MrWonka View Post
    I'm not sure where you think you saw a Keynesian or liberal say that federal debt is no problem. I've certainly never heard a liberal say such a thing. Simply that it's not a massive problem, we have bigger problems, and that relatively small changes can bring us back in line. Ultimately we can always pay off our debts, and it makes absolutely no sense to be slashing important programs that benefit our overall economy in the name of bringing down short term deficits.
    There are several on this very board who run around saying exactly that. They push the bogus MMT nonsense.
    EVERY LIFE MATTERS

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    Re: To all those 'Federal deficits are no problem' Krugmanites/Keynesians:

    Quote Originally Posted by Lafayette View Post
    Aint necessarily so. If the US were Zimbabwe, maybe. But it isn't.
    We don't have to be Zimbabwe. All it takes is for people to think we can't collect enough taxes to pay our bills.

    The Chinese just LUV to buy T-notes and store their dollars in the US. Which means that, for as long as China does not dump the T-notes on the market (that is, sell them), the US need not worry about its "debt". It is in safe hands with the Chinese. Unless, of course, push comes to shove - but that would be kinda-sorta stoopid.
    You really don't know how this works do you? They have dumped t-notes before. the thing is other people bought them and no harm no foul. what would hurt is if they demand and
    cash in those t-notes now and WE have to buy them back. Us handing them a bunch of newly printed dollars won't cut it either.

    After all, the US is THE MAJOR EXPORT MARKET for China.
    You say this as if it is relevant. When you money is worthless then it no longer matters. when you can no longer afford to pay your debt nothing matters.
    people will no longer want to buy your t-notes or if they do they will want high interest rates.

    Should we be sustaining such a high-debt*. Is there a good reason for it?
    Not really.

    There was when we entered the Great Recession and the debt expanded in order for Uncle Sam to support the unemployed. But, if unemployment is down below 5%, the Employment to Population Ratio is not back up to it last high of 63% before the Great Recession was triggered in 2008.
    which by all rights did more harm than good. the long term unemployed is still and issue to this day from that mess. I get so sick of this. if you look at the reason it dropped so much one of the biggest factors was people participating in the
    job market dropped. IE people stopped looking for work. that is not something good to base your unemployment on.

    For most of us, just HealthCare.
    healthcare is available for anyone to purchase or get. stop trying to make others pay for you.

    The one that should be important is miniscule - that of the Education Budget. As I keep harping, the DoD budget should be cut in half and the money spent funding free Tertiary Education. Which the country needs desperately to assure future jobs.
    college is available for anyone and everyone that wants to go.

    Or companies will keep filling positions by means of short-term visas importing the talent we should be nurturing in our own country. Which visas have an amazing facility for becoming not only long-term but transformed into citizenship.
    Is that a crime? Nope. But why should we be importing migrants to take the jobs that should go to educated Americans. Of which there aren't enough because we have made a post-secondary degree so damn expensive ... !
    umm it is cheaper to do that than to hire an American worker? these guys are contracted 99% of the time.
    yes the government has bloated the college system which is why it costs so much.

    higher demand = more costs. this is the basic formula for everything.
    no matter how much money you throw at it the cost will continue to rise.

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