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Amazon Will Cost Millions of Jobs In Thr Future?

James972 said:
it already does scale up perfectly. We have had new inventions for 250 years now and we have 96% employment. The idea of basic living expenses because of inventions is utterly liberal submoronic, just another liberal welfare scam to buy votes
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You're missing the point. Past technological advances created as many new jobs as they obsoleted. Those jobs may have required different skillsets but there wasn't a net decrease in the job pool.

Large scale automation - which includes machines that have the capability to repair themselves - has to potential to obsolete far more jobs than it would create. What do you do when you have 100,000,000 people capable of working but an economy that only need 20,000,000? That's the point.

PirateMk1 believes that can be compensated for by everyone becoming investors - owners in the enterprises that create all this automation. That may work but I don't know it guarantees an income from everyone.

This isn't a "liberal welfare scam." Large scale automation will potentially change society and economics completely. That's reality and whining about "liberal welfare scam" shows you're really not thinking through the ramifications here.
 
Gaius46 said:
there wasn't a net decrease in the job pool.
.
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obviously if the last 50 years a computer automation, which resulted in an unimagined supercomputer smart phone in everyone's pocket, killed jobs we would not have 96% employment today. There is no limit on a liberal's ability to dream up new welfare scams with which to buy votes and gain political power.
 
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James972 said:
obviously if the last 50 years a computer automation, which resulted in an unimagined supercomputer smart phone in everyone pocket, killed jobs we would not have 96% employment today. There is no limit on a liberal's ability to dream up new welfare scams with which to buy votes and gain political power.
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I'm talking about something fundamentally different.

Think automated factories that completely build driverless cars and trucks without human intervention. Then think of automated repair shops that fix those automated cars when they break down. Then think of other machines that can fix the machines that are in the automated factories and repair shops when they break. Then think about scaling that to every factory that creates every consumer good you use.

At the point where machines can fix themselves you have made all human labor obsolete. At the point where machines can write their own computer code you've made all "knowledge workers" obsolete.

In a world like that what jobs are there for people to do?
 
Gaius46 said:
I'm talking about something fundamentally different.
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why talk about it at all as long as employment is 96% and proving you wrong?
 
Gaius46 said:
I'm talking about something fundamentally different.

Think automated factories that completely build driverless cars and trucks without human intervention.
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why?? given that we are decades away from driverless cars that work at night in bad weather let alone humanless factories that build driverless cars
 
Gaius46 said:
At the point where machines can fix themselves you have made all human labor obsolete. ?
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you belong in a science fiction thread not here. Sorry
 
James972 said:
you belong in a science fiction thread not here. Sorry
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Really? First this thread is exactly about that kind of world. And it's probably not as far off as you think.

Nothing I mentioned above is impossible. The technology exists to do much of it today. Machines that can fix themselves aren't here yet but they aren't that far off. Decades at most. Probably less. This isn't science fiction. It's reality that's being worked in labs across the world.
 
Gaius46 said:
Really? First this thread is exactly about that kind of world.
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actually thread is about amazon which is creating millions of jobs
 
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Gaius46 said:
It's reality that's being worked in labs across the world.
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BS of course we have always worked on 1000's of things in area of pure science and we still have 96% employment with jobs paying more than ever. Why not hold off for few decades and see if employment below 96% before you panic??
 
Aberration said:
How many billion live on ~$2/day?


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Mostly those that eat grubworms and live in filth and wear scraps of cloth for clothing.

Should that be acceptible in an advanced economy that has the ability to produce goods through automation with little need for human labor?
 
imagep said:
Mostly those that eat grubworms and live in filth and wear scraps of cloth for clothing.

Should that be acceptible in an advanced economy that has the ability to produce goods through automation with little need for human labor?
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yes very acceptable according to simple science. If you put more people on welfare they in turn breed more people who need more welfare so that the least fit survive thus reversing evolution and causing more suffering rather than less as the brain dead liberal would hope. A liberal will have no idea what evolution is and thus is not suited to understand this subject.
 
James972 said:
the pure beauty of capitalism is that you can only make money by making society better. IF not for money people would have to guess at what makes society better and society would be worse off.
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Bernie Madeoff "made" a lot of money. Exactly how did he improve our society?
 
James972 said:
yes very acceptable according to simple science. If you put more people on welfare they in turn breed more people who need more welfare so that the least fit survive thus reversing evolution and causing more suffering rather than less as the brain dead liberal would hope. A liberal will have no idea what evolution is and thus is not suited to understand this subject.
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In an economy and with advanced technology, where we have the ability to create ample for everyone, you would prefer that most people live in poverty? Really? What's the point in that? Does it just make you feel superior to those people? What if you happened to be one of the people who's job skills were no longer needed and thus couldn't find a job, do you think you would still feel the same way?
 
imagep said:
In an economy and with advanced technology, where we have the ability to create ample for everyone, you would prefer that most people live in poverty? Really?
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capitalism makes us rich not poor as you have learned 123 times now. It forces corporations to pay highest wages possible and sell at lowest wages possible just to survive. This is why American workers are so rich.

if you disagree try starting a business that pays low wages and charges high prices. I know its unfair to ask but can you try to predict what would happen?
 
imagep said:
Bernie Madeoff "made" a lot of money. Exactly how did he improve our society?
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he made it illegally. Most would know that without being told. He is in jail for life, one son died of cancer and the other of suicide.
 
James972 said:
why?? given that we are decades away from driverless cars that work at night in bad weather let alone humanless factories that build driverless cars
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We went from being ground bound to going to the moon in less than 60 years. You are seriously underestimating the pace of technological change.
 
James972 said:
BS of course we have always worked on 1000's of things in area of pure science and we still have 96% employment with jobs paying more than ever. Why not hold off for few decades and see if employment below 96% before you panic??
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A - I'm not panicked.

B - Something that potentially fundamentally changes society should be discussed long before it actually happens. I'm not a fan of making **** up as I go.
 
imagep said:
Mostly those that eat grubworms and live in filth and wear scraps of cloth for clothing.

Should that be acceptible in an advanced economy that has the ability to produce goods through automation with little need for human labor?
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I am pretty sure these people want more than $2/day, eating grub worms and living in filth and wearing scraps.


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imagep said:
Bernie Madeoff "made" a lot of money. Exactly how did he improve our society?
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What he did was not Capitalism. Where is he at now?


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rhinefire said:
Change is not always good. How will shopping mall and other retail outlets survive the Amazon type businesses? How ill auto related businesses survive the onslaught of electric cars? This will be nation wide unemployment in the future. So how will these jobs be replaced?
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UBI would alleviate the problem.
 
Aberration said:
What he did was not Capitalism. Where is he at now?


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That's true, but a year before he was caught, if I would have blasted him for his illgotten wealth, I would have been accused of being "jealous" of him by most conservatives (and a heck of a lot of democrats). And there actually were several groups of people who tried to have him investigated on the bases that his claims weren't mathematically possible, but they were ignored or told that Mr. Madeoff was of unimpeachable character.

Great wealth is rarely obtained by hard work alone, it comes only with either a heaping dose of luck, cronieism, or corruption (or a combination of all of the above). No human being is a million times more industrious than the average human being.
 
James972 said:
capitalism makes us rich not poor as you have learned 123 times now. It forces corporations to pay highest wages possible and sell at lowest wages possible just to survive. This is why American workers are so rich.?
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Nonsense. Capitalism is a general description of who owns the means of production, and that it's in a relatively unregulated market, largely for profit. It doesn't necessarily lead to anything in particular, it could lead to catastrophe like any other system if allowed to run amok. Consolidation of power and a shift to a Plutocracy. Some may tend to (Chomsky: using their power to serve their own purposes and thereby increasing poverty and nurturing class conflict)

You can sink an economy that is capitalistic, just as you can nearly any economy.

Common criticisms: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalism
Capitalism has been criticized for establishing power in the hands of a minority capitalist class that exists through the exploitation of a working class majority; for prioritizing profit over social good, natural resources, and the environment; and for being an engine of inequality and economic instabilities

This is why many you may encounter on the forums raise those concerns, and discuss ways to specifically to help address/offset/lessen those failings.
Class conflict? Check
Ultra wealthy have an incredibly large effect on all significant government legislation? Check.
History of instability? Check.
Profit outweighs environment, health, social good? Check.

Why is it so hard to accept that today the U.S. capitalistic society has evolved with the times, and it will continue to, as we are faced with new worries and changes in markets that where not around 20 years ago, etc.?
 
Mach said:
Nonsense. Capitalism is a general description of who owns the means of production,
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??? The Ford family owns the means of production that produce Ford cars but this tells us nothing of value. That they own it in a Republican capitalist society and thus must provide the best jobs and products possible to raise our standard of living at the fastest rate possible just to survive tells us 1 million times more. Can you understand this?
 
imagep said:
Great wealth is rarely obtained by hard work alone,
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nobody said it was. You have created a strawman. Do you understand?
 
James972 said:
??? The Ford family owns the means of production that produce Ford cars but this tells us nothing of value. That they own it in a Republican capitalist society and thus must provide the best jobs and products possible to raise our standard of living at the fastest rate possible just to survive tells us 1 million times more. Can you understand this?
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The auto industry was saved by government action. Try again.
Too big to mother ****ing fail, strikes again.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automotive_industry_crisis_of_2008–10

Here comes the evil government, saving the day, as Ford runs ads that say "we stand on our own!" as they lobby to save the *rest* of the auto industry, which would ripple down to hurting them.

The average person know ****-all about the reality of big corporations and their inner workings, and their reliance on government support. Ford didn't have to have the bailout, but they apparently lobbied to save their competitors for their own sake.

No one stands alone, it's a lying marketing slogan that Trump loves "Make America Great", and Republicans love "we don't like dat dere gubermant!"
 
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