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Amazon Will Cost Millions of Jobs In Thr Future?

Actually, Capitalism ultimately leads to a money less society. We're almost there already. Most of our money doesn't physically exist. What we have is basically economic points and buying power in the form of credit. Capitalism relies on economic powers competing and refining their industries til they are peaked. Nothing specifically about it that requires money. They could pass a law tomorrow banning all money, and convert all the currency to happy fun points. Wouldn't affect much. Might work for our benefit actually. What with how much it costs us to print currency, and fight money laundering and counterfeiting.

Understood and agree. I was (and I assume Bob was as well) using "money-less" to mean that people, for the most part no longer have to work to put food on the table because of automation so instead do things that they enjoy and/or make society better because they don't have to worry maximizing their income.
 
It should be noted that the Star Trek universe got there via massive famin and wars, up to the point that warp was discovered, and we made first contact. Prior to that? We were headed to self induced extinction.

Yeah I know. Would nice if we can find a way to skip that part and keep massive turmoil less destructive levels.
 
Understood and agree. I was (and I assume Bob was as well) using "money-less" to mean that people, for the most part no longer have to work to put food on the table because of automation so instead do things that they enjoy and/or make society better because they don't have to worry maximizing their income.

the pure beauty of capitalism is that you can only make money by making society better. IF not for money people would have to guess at what makes society better and society would be worse off.
 
Understood and agree. I was (and I assume Bob was as well) using "money-less" to mean that people, for the most part no longer have to work to put food on the table because of automation so instead do things that they enjoy and/or make society better because they don't have to worry maximizing their income.

Yeah, that's a pipe dream. People had jobs even in Star Trek. They were just jobs like engineer, scientist, painter, musician. If you look at people born into wealthy families today, who literally never have to work, ever. They are still motivated to take up a profession, and contribute. I think its more in line with human nature to contribute, than it is for them to only feel motivated for personal gain. But getting to that point requires some huge hurdles. You need free energy, unlimited food production, and enough real estate to hold the population after the subsequent boom brought on. And then something to scare people into working together. In short, it's not happening til we find aliens.
 
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liberalism is opposed to knowledge so liberals don't study history. If they did they would know all humans were farmers until farm machines replaced them and they got better jobs. Being opposed to history, liberals would have kept us all as farmers had they been in charge. It seems beyond crazy but that is modern America in decline at the hands of our liberals who seem fetishisticially opposed to acquiring knowledge. Go figure. Truth is stranger than fiction,

Your "truth" requires ignorance of the past half century's wealth redistribution in amerian society.
 
Yeah, that's a pipe dream. People had jobs even in Star Trek. They were just jobs like engineer, scientist, painter, musician. If you look at people born into wealthy families today, who literally never have to work, ever. They are still motivated to take up a profession, and contribute. I think its more in line with human nature to contribute, than it is for them to only feel motivated for personal gain.

What has our current president and his dynasty ever contributed to? Wealth extraction and contributing to themselves via sweat shop labor.
 
What has our current president and his dynasty ever contributed to? Wealth extraction and contributing to themselves via sweat shop labor.

Don't ruin a nice conversation, they are to few and far between here...
 
the pure beauty of capitalism is that you can only make money by making society better. IF not for money people would have to guess at what makes society better and society would be worse off.

I don't disagree but there's the question of how capitalism works when 90% of the people don't have jobs because of automation. How does any free society economic system work in that environment?
 
Yeah, that's a pipe dream. People had jobs even in Star Trek. They were just jobs like engineer, scientist, painter, musician. If you look at people born into wealthy families today, who literally never have to work, ever. They are still motivated to take up a profession, and contribute. I think its more in line with human nature to contribute, than it is for them to only feel motivated for personal gain. But getting to that point requires some huge hurdles. You need free energy, unlimited food production, and enough real estate to hold the population after the subsequent boom brought on. And then something to scare people into working together. In short, it's not happening til we find aliens.

I kind of think of personal gain as tied to having to put food on the table and not so much people just being greedy and acquisitive. I'd view a Star Trek style economic future the way I envision my retirement to be. I'll still work but rather than doing something that pays well - I still have one kid in college and a mortgage to pay off - that I really don't love I'll do something I love and not care how much it pays, if it pays at all.

I'm sure they're out there. It's a big universe.
 
I don't disagree but there's the question of how capitalism works when 90% of the people don't have jobs because of automation. How does any free society economic system work in that environment?

I've thought about this abit, and haven't come up with a complete answer. But, if we look at what happened to the music industry, and whats happening to hollywood now. Music is basically free in this day and age, with the internet you can sign up for a service, pay a monthly fee and boom unlimited music. Same with television, and books. Beset with piracy, the market adapted. No one was going to continue paying retail prices for albums, and movies, and books when they could download it for free with zero risk of getting caught.

So we got all inclusive services offered at a reasonably low monthly fee. When the time comes, and power and food are so cheap to produce I don't see why they can't be provided as an inclusive service offered at a reasonably low fee.

As far as income, only a few parts of the world are developed. The rest of it is just waiting for their turn, Capitalism relies on someone providing the capital for said developing. The upper 1 percent are largely in their position because their forefathers provided the Capital for the US during our own development. I don't see a reason every American citizen can't use their own modest income to invest in the development of other nations, and build an generational lifetime income, become the 1 percent to the rest of the world. At our rate of technological development, you would also factor in the monetization of Space. Lot of resources out their, lots of investment opportunities.

I see automation more as a chance for everyone to embrace capitalism, and become venture capitalists in their own right. That's the beauty of capitalism, labor is a resource, it's success is not dependent on who provides the resource. When machines are providing it, that frees the humans up who used to do something else. There isn't anything stopping them from investing capital of their own in a developing area.

For instance, a man drives truck most of his life. He loses his job to automation. What's to stop him from taking the money he's earned driving his whole life and buying all the old obsolete trucks and starting a trucking company in a place with no domestic shipping at all. Let alone an automated system. Making domestic shipping available, lets a region expand its markets, grow its economy, and many other things. This guy could become the Schneider of Honduras. Fast forward, as more people lose their jobs to automation and deal in capital themselves, the wage income will disappear replaced by an income derived from capital gains. And once we get to space, we will never run out of things to develop. Because A) with all this free time we will **** like bunnies and our population will move past what the earth can sustain. And B) we can't help but explore **** no matter how dangerous it is. We are going to go there, and probably poke it with a stick.
 
I don't disagree but there's the question of how capitalism works when 90% of the people don't have jobs because of automation. How does any free society economic system work in that environment?

To make the successful transition to a much more automated society, people are going to have to change their modes of thinking. They are going to have to go back to the style of thing that existed before the industrial revolution. They need to go back to thinking like farmers. When you think of a farmer what do you think of? Most everyone answers, somebody that grows things for a living. A farmer grows things to SELL to make a living. They are at heart businessmen first farmers second. People in order to succeed in an automated world are going to have to start thinking as a farmer would, or as an entrepreneur would. They are going to need to start investing in themselves and in the automation and companies and in multiple business ventures. They need to start thinking about how to farm money. Automation if we learn to embrace the thinking required be successful in an automated age will be the best thing that has happened to mankind in ages. But to make the transition successful we have to embrace wholeheartedly the notion of most everyone becoming their own boss and having fingers in multiple investments and business's and opportunities.
 
I kind of think of personal gain as tied to having to put food on the table and not so much people just being greedy and acquisitive. I'd view a Star Trek style economic future the way I envision my retirement to be. I'll still work but rather than doing something that pays well - I still have one kid in college and a mortgage to pay off - that I really don't love I'll do something I love and not care how much it pays, if it pays at all.

I'm sure they're out there. It's a big universe.

I've always enjoyed jobs in kitchens, when I retire, I want to have a little bar and grill on a beach in Puerto Rico. Spend the morning drinking in a hammock, the evening cooking. And I will have a rather large sail boat. Wife's not to keen on sailing around the world, but I still have a few decades to convince her.
 
I've always enjoyed jobs in kitchens, when I retire, I want to have a little bar and grill on a beach in Puerto Rico. Spend the morning drinking in a hammock, the evening cooking. And I will have a rather large sail boat. Wife's not to keen on sailing around the world, but I still have a few decades to convince her.


Good luck! I love sailboats.

I'm a pilot who also plays guitar. My ideal retirement would to some place like St Thomas where I'd fly people around in a seaplane during the day and then play Margaritaville to the same people at night.
 
I've thought about this abit, and haven't come up with a complete answer. But, if we look at what happened to the music industry, and whats happening to hollywood now. Music is basically free in this day and age, with the internet you can sign up for a service, pay a monthly fee and boom unlimited music. Same with television, and books. Beset with piracy, the market adapted. No one was going to continue paying retail prices for albums, and movies, and books when they could download it for free with zero risk of getting caught.

So we got all inclusive services offered at a reasonably low monthly fee. When the time comes, and power and food are so cheap to produce I don't see why they can't be provided as an inclusive service offered at a reasonably low fee.

As far as income, only a few parts of the world are developed. The rest of it is just waiting for their turn, Capitalism relies on someone providing the capital for said developing. The upper 1 percent are largely in their position because their forefathers provided the Capital for the US during our own development. I don't see a reason every American citizen can't use their own modest income to invest in the development of other nations, and build an generational lifetime income, become the 1 percent to the rest of the world. At our rate of technological development, you would also factor in the monetization of Space. Lot of resources out their, lots of investment opportunities.

I see automation more as a chance for everyone to embrace capitalism, and become venture capitalists in their own right. That's the beauty of capitalism, labor is a resource, it's success is not dependent on who provides the resource. When machines are providing it, that frees the humans up who used to do something else. There isn't anything stopping them from investing capital of their own in a developing area.

For instance, a man drives truck most of his life. He loses his job to automation. What's to stop him from taking the money he's earned driving his whole life and buying all the old obsolete trucks and starting a trucking company in a place with no domestic shipping at all. Let alone an automated system. Making domestic shipping available, lets a region expand its markets, grow its economy, and many other things. This guy could become the Schneider of Honduras. Fast forward, as more people lose their jobs to automation and deal in capital themselves, the wage income will disappear replaced by an income derived from capital gains. And once we get to space, we will never run out of things to develop. Because A) with all this free time we will **** like bunnies and our population will move past what the earth can sustain. And B) we can't help but explore **** no matter how dangerous it is. We are going to go there, and probably poke it with a stick.

:lamo That is so true.


We already are the 1% of the world. We need to start acting like it, and embrace it, and our heritage as the first sovereign people in the modern world. A saying that should be common is "Responsibility and freedom are two sides of the same coin."
 
Good luck! I love sailboats.

I'm a pilot who also plays guitar. My ideal retirement would to some place like St Thomas where I'd fly people around in a seaplane during the day and then play Margaritaville to the same people at night.

That seems highly attainable, you should definitely go for it.
 
Change is not always good. How will shopping mall and other retail outlets survive the Amazon type businesses? How ill auto related businesses survive the onslaught of electric cars? This will be nation wide unemployment in the future. So how will these jobs be replaced?

The same way all the jobs in the horse-and-buggy industry and the subsistance-farming industry were replaced: with other jobs in other industries.
 
Yep. It's like the steam engine all over. We're dead!

;)

If you add up the job loss caused by computers, automation, electricity, automobiles, farm technology, and trade, I think we're up to about 187% unemployment. You really shouldn't mock those people's suffering.
 
Considering you believe in a Darwinian society where poor people should be left to die with no assistance whatsoever, it would be much, much worse for almost everybody. In the world you've described to us on this forum for so many years no jobs means no money and no food and the owners of production are entitled to 100% of what they can they get their fingers on.

I never said people should be left to die without any form of assistance being given. What I said many times over the years is that I'm against the government taking property from one person by force and using that property to provide welfare services to another person. I'm 100% behind any successful means to help people if everyone involved is doing so voluntarily. Stop equating being against welfare with being against helping people. Thank you.
 
If you add up the job loss caused by computers, automation, electricity, automobiles, farm technology, and trade, I think we're up to about 187% unemployment. You really shouldn't mock those people's suffering.

When all but 10 percent of the then 90 percent of the population living on farms moved to the cities the hardships were great and the possible rewards gigantic. It is similar today at a much more wealthy level of society. Sure it is a nightmare for many and horrid for some. But in our country it needs not be as bad as it is for the ones in other countries competing for jobs in order not to see their children starve that must also work like many European kids in the 1960s.

But you are right. We must find some way to make the economy more prosperous for the citizens.
 
To make the successful transition to a much more automated society, people are going to have to change their modes of thinking. They are going to have to go back to the style of thing that existed before the industrial revolution. They need to go back to thinking like farmers. When you think of a farmer what do you think of? Most everyone answers, somebody that grows things for a living. A farmer grows things to SELL to make a living. They are at heart businessmen first farmers second. People in order to succeed in an automated world are going to have to start thinking as a farmer would, or as an entrepreneur would. They are going to need to start investing in themselves and in the automation and companies and in multiple business ventures. They need to start thinking about how to farm money. Automation if we learn to embrace the thinking required be successful in an automated age will be the best thing that has happened to mankind in ages. But to make the transition successful we have to embrace wholeheartedly the notion of most everyone becoming their own boss and having fingers in multiple investments and business's and opportunities.

I agree, especially with the part about automation being the best thing that happened to mankind. I just wonder whether what you're talking about scales up to 300 million people or if we really have to consider giving everyone something to cover basic living expenses.
 
I agree, especially with the part about automation being the best thing that happened to mankind. I just wonder whether what you're talking about scales up to 300 million people or if we really have to consider giving everyone something to cover basic living expenses.

Everyone when the country was founded was a businessman/farmer. Worked then. The only difference really would be instead of owning land, animals, seed and water, one would own pieces of various businesses, ventures, machines and resources. Same type mentality different business circumstance.
 
I agree, especially with the part about automation being the best thing that happened to mankind. I just wonder whether what you're talking about scales up to 300 million people or if we really have to consider giving everyone something to cover basic living expenses.

it already does scale up perfectly. We have had new inventions for 250 years now and we have 96% employment. The idea of basic living expenses because of inventions is utterly liberal submoronic, just another liberal welfare scam to buy votes
 
But you are right. We must find some way to make the economy more prosperous for the citizens.

seems we've done that, we invented the smart phone supercomputer toy and 200 million Americans can afford them at $140/month!
 
But you are right. We must find some way to make the economy more prosperous for the citizens.

the only way to make it more prosperous is to switch to capitalism. China did that and they got 30 years of 7% growth
 
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