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The American dream? Top 20% pulling away from the rest, study finds

Lafayette said:
As if becoming a millionaire was the raison d'etre of our existence on earth.

Stupid, stupid, stupid reasoning ...
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again you can't actually address the argument presented which refutes your previous argument.
so now yet again in yet another one of your threads you have to a huge strawman because you simply cannot
deal with your own topic.
 
Nilly said:
"There's never just one rich guy"

"8 people hold the same amount of wealth as 3.5bn people"

:roll:
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again who cares.

that is there countries fault for not being a better government.
that in turn has no impact on others trying to earn that money as well.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
It has happened for a lot more reasons than that.....or really only one..... the wealth holders have over a couple generations generated a system that serves their interests, and no one elses.
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They have co-opted an entire political party too. The GOP has become a rich man's toy. They heap money on them and reap the benefits 10 times over with tax cuts that gut revenue and squeeze the middle class with austerity and lax regulations.
 
Lafayette said:
Still complaining are we?

And still without the slightest justification, nor evidence to the contrary of that which I have posted.

Iow, "cheap shot" ...
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Not complaining. Just pointing out. Justify? 'Went through the conflicts between your simplifying falsehoods and the body of socioeconomic and shown the problematic use you make of statistics. But you just repeat it, though you obviously must know how false your arguments are.
 
joG said:
Not complaining. Just pointing out. Justify? 'Went through the conflicts between your simplifying falsehoods and the body of socioeconomic and shown the problematic use you make of statistics. But you just repeat it, though you obviously must know how false your arguments are.
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More ad-hominem blah, blah, blah.

Moving right along ...
 
Lafayette said:
More ad-hominem blah, blah, blah.

Moving right along ...
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No ad hominem intended. Only pointing out how transparent your method is after watching for a short time.
 
Lafayette said:
From the Guardian: The American dream? Top 20% pulling away from the rest, study finds



Once again, America's problem of Income Disparity is rearing its ugly head in the news. This was brought about by Reckless Ronnie, in the 1980s, who fundamentally changed Upper-income Taxation. (See infographic here.)

Aside from changing taxation rates, what is definitively required is Hillary's platform promise (borrowed from Bernie) that free Tertiary Education must be made available to all comers at state schools by means of Federal subventions ...
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I have what I have and make what I make. What other people have or make doesn't change that at all.
 
joG said:
No ad hominem intended. Only pointing out how transparent your method is after watching for a short time.
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Layfatte is always moving right along because he cant respond substantively to posts. All he does is spam us over and over with cut and paste articles from the Economist.
 
iguanaman said:
They have co-opted an entire political party too. The GOP has become a rich man's toy. They heap money on them and reap the benefits 10 times over with tax cuts that gut revenue and squeeze the middle class with austerity and lax regulations.
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liberals have been saying that for 100 years yet the GOP controls federal and state govt because the non-rich vote for them, especially in the case of Trump who spent half of what Hillary did! Keep it up!!!
 
James972 said:
liberals have been saying that for 100 years yet the GOP controls federal and state govt because the non-rich vote for them, especially in the case of Trump who spent half of what Hillary did! Keep it up!!!
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Yes the GOP has done a good job of using various scams to get people to vote against their own best interests. You wonder how poor the middle class will get before they catch on. Trump had a lot of help from Putin in the election.? Did you figure the Russians expenses into your statement? Those hackers and trolls don't work for free.
 
iguanaman said:
Yes the GOP has done a good job of using various scams to get people to vote against their own best interests. You wonder how poor the middle class will get before they catch on.
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yes poor and middle class have imploded thanks to liberal regulations, taxes, and unions that drove 20 million jobs off shore, 30 million liberal illegals invited in to take our jobs and bid down wages did not help either.

Plus thanks must go to the liberal war on our schools, families, religion, that has rendered many unfit for middle class jobs.
 
James972 said:
yes poor and middle class have imploded thanks to liberal regulations, taxes, and unions that drove 20 million jobs off shore, 30 million liberal illegals invited in to take our jobs and bid down wages did not help either.

Plus thanks must go to the liberal war on our schools, families, religion, that has rendered many unfit for middle class jobs.
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Right and Reaganomics and tax cuts for the wealthy and giving tax breaks to companies that outsource have nothing to do with wage stagnation. Supply-side economics put us here.
 
backpacker said:
I have what I have and make what I make. What other people have or make doesn't change that at all.
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What you have depends upon your brain meaning "what you know". (Unless you're good at winning lotteries.)

The relationship between educational-degree level and income is indisputable. See here:
ep_chart_001.png



The Dept. of Education will tell you (from their own estimates) that 45% of all American students will never obtain a post-secondary education*. Which condemns then to a life of "subsistence-living" - and likely guarantees that America's high-rates of crime and gun-related deaths will not diminish.

Is that the sort of country you want to live in?

Cuz it's that kind of country in which you live (if you are in the US) ...

*Had we elected Hillary, she would have implemented Bernie's idea (taken from Europe) to subsidize at state post-secondary schools a Tertiary Education (for all children of families earning the Median Wage of $50K) by which they obtain the credentials for a good job at good pay.
 
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Lafayette said:
What you have depends upon your brain meaning "what you know". (Unless you're good at winning lotteries.)

The relationship between educational-degree level and income is indisputable. See here:
ep_chart_001.png



The Dept. of Education will tell you (from their own estimates) that 45% of all American students will never obtain a post-secondary education*. Which condemns then to a life of "subsistence-living" - and likely guarantees that America's high-rates of crime and gun-related deaths will not diminish.

Is that the sort of country you want to live in?

Cuz it's that kind of country in which you live (if you are in the US) ...

*Had we elected Hillary, she would have implemented Bernie's idea (taken from Europe) to subsidize at state post-secondary schools a Tertiary Education (for all children of families earning the Median Wage of $50K) by which they obtain the credentials for a good job at good pay.
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I grew up very lower working class, went to public schools, and have a professional degree, so yes that is the kind of country I want to live in. Specifically we are the kind of country in which people who apply themselves can do quite well. I do not want to be a country in which everybody gets an award just for breathing and walking upright. I invested in myself. If someone else does not want to invest in themselves, there is no reason they should get a free pass to greater success.
 
backpacker said:
I do not want to be a country in which everybody gets an award just for breathing and walking upright. I invested in myself. If someone else does not want to invest in themselves, there is no reason they should get a free pass to greater success.
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You should get out and about beyond the 3-mile limit.

You are not the only one who understands that education is the key to a better job and thus lifestyle.

But, in the US, nearly 45% of our high-school students will never obtain a Tertiary Level degree. Why? Because it is too expensive and they cannot afford it.

In Europe*, that Post-secondary Degree is free, gratis and for nothing. Well, almost - the annual student-fee is $1K plus the room-'n-board ...

*China as well.
 
iguanaman said:
Supply-side economics put us here.
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how is that possible when we are more left wing socialist demand side than ever with bigger govt than ever and taxing the top 1% and corporations more than any nation on earth? Economic growth has stopped because liberals are anti rich and anti business and thus drove our businesses off shore, and then invited in 30 million illegals to take our remaining jobs and drive down wages even further.
 
Lafayette said:
But, in the US, nearly 45% of our high-school students will never obtain a Tertiary Level degree. Why? Because it is too expensive and they cannot afford it.
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wrong as always, education here is virtually free at state schools and community colleges and is really free on line. a liberal always has a growing list of new welfare programs it wants the hated top 1% to pay for. Govt now spends $70,000/year per family and yet the liberal can always find an as yet undiscovered need for a new giant and crippling welfare program.
 
Lafayette said:
In Europe*, that Post-secondary Degree is free, gratis and for nothing. Well, almost - the annual student-fee is $1K plus the room-'n-board ...
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and yet Europe has what even Krugman admits is Eurosclerous: horribly weak economies. They have 70% of our standard of living. France for example has the per capita income of Arkansas about our poorest state. And they invent nothing, If they could not copy our inventions they would have 40% of out standard of living.
 
James972 said:
how is that possible when we are more left wing socialist demand side than ever with bigger govt than ever and taxing the top 1% and corporations more than any nation on earth? Economic growth has stopped because liberals are anti rich and anti business and thus drove our businesses off shore, and then invited in 30 million illegals to take our remaining jobs and drive down wages even further.
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Republicans have been President 20 of the last 36 years and it is their policies that have shamelessly slashed taxes on the rich, deregulated industry and Banks, and given tax breaks to companies that send their jobs offshore. The rich are richer than ever and income inequality is ever widening. The top 5% have quintupled their net worth to over $40 Trillion since Reagan while wages stagnate and our debt grows. Yes it is all those wealth haters that have been pulling the strings. BTW Who do you think pays all those "illegals" which is what brought them here to begin with?.:lol:
 
iguanaman said:
Republicans have been President 20 of the last 36 years and it is their policies that have shamelessly slashed taxes on the rich,:
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goofy lie since the top 1% pay 40% of all tax( only 20% under Reagan) and our corporate rate is highest in world. And how stupid is it to imagine that if we taxed them even more it would help the middle class?? How?????????
 
James972 said:
goofy lie since the top 1% pay 40% of all tax( only 20% under Reagan) and our corporate rate is highest in world. And how stupid is it to imagine that if we taxed them even more it would help the middle class?? How?????????
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Your numbers confirm that all the increases in income went to the top since Reagan. How long do you think that can keep up? How will we grow faster when there is no money and therefore no demand from 95% of us? Our Corporations do not pay that rate either and revenue from Corporate taxes are way down as a % of GDP. When top rates were higher the wealthy found paying their employees and investing in their business was better than giving the money to the Govt. Then Reagan slashed taxes and suddenly getting filthy rich was all they cared about. It really could be that simple. It is better to spend money on your business and workers than paying it in taxes.
US-corporate-income-taxes-pct-share-gdp-1946-2009.PNG
 
iguanaman said:
How long do you think that can keep up? How will we grow faster when there is no money and therefore no demand from 95% of us?
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1) how will taxing the 1% and corporations more help when they already pay more than in any other country???

2) you have learned 29 times now that the top 1% don't put their money in mattresses they bank it where it is multiplied by 10 and loaned out for cars homes businesses educations etc. Shall we go for 30?
 
iguanaman said:
Our Corporations do not pay that rate either
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you have learned 42 times now they don't pay the highest rate in world rate by moving to lower tax countries so the rate destroys middle class jobs here and creates them in booming places like China. Shall we go for 43?
 
James972 said:
1) how will taxing the 1% and corporations more help when they already pay more than in any other country???
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No they don't. Most of them pay less than even you and me. Let Mr. Warren Buffet, perhaps the world's richest man , explain:

While the poor and middle class fight for us in Afghanistan, and while most Americans struggle to make ends meet, we mega-rich continue to get our extraordinary tax breaks. Some of us are investment managers who earn billions from our daily labors but are allowed to classify our income as “carried interest,” thereby getting a bargain 15 percent tax rate. Others own stock index futures for 10 minutes and have 60 percent of their gain taxed at 15 percent, as if they’d been long-term investors.

Last year my federal tax bill — the income tax I paid, as well as payroll taxes paid by me and on my behalf — was $6,938,744. That sounds like a lot of money. But what I paid was only 17.4 percent of my taxable income — and that’s actually a lower percentage than was paid by any of the other 20 people in our office. Their tax burdens ranged from 33 percent to 41 percent and averaged 36 percent....

If you make money with money, as some of my super-rich friends do, your percentage may be a bit lower than mine. But if you earn money from a job, your percentage will surely exceed mine — most likely by a lot...

Back in the 1980s and 1990s, tax rates for the rich were far higher, and my percentage rate was in the middle of the pack. According to a theory I sometimes hear, I should have thrown a fit and refused to invest because of the elevated tax rates on capital gains and dividends.

I didn’t refuse, nor did others. I have worked with investors for 60 years and I have yet to see anyone — not even when capital gains rates were 39.9 percent in 1976-77 — shy away from a sensible investment because of the tax rate on the potential gain. People invest to make money, and potential taxes have never scared them off. And to those who argue that higher rates hurt job creation, I would note that a net of nearly 40 million jobs were added between 1980 and 2000. You know what’s happened since then: lower tax rates and far lower job creation.
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