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Time for a little math.

James972 said:
we could end it tomorrow by switching to a capitalist medical system. Prices would be 20% of what they are now.
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WOW.....{rest of post deleted in order to keep my nose clean with #MODSQUAD}
 
Dittohead not! said:
The minimum wage in Australia is one of the highest in the world at $17.70 per hour.
The exchange rate is $1,000 US to 1,36.60 AUD.

That is the equivalent of $12.96 in US dollars.

With me so far?

So, the price of fast food in Australia must be a lot higher than it is in the USA, right?

Cost of a big mack in Australia: $4.95. Cost of a big mack in the USA: $3.99. Cheaper, right? Oh, wait, that exchange rate again: $3.99 x 1.3660 = $5.45 in Australian dollars.

So, using the official exchange rate, a big mack costs 45 cents more in the USA, where the minim wage is $7.25, than it does in Australia, where the minimum wage, in US dollars, is $12.96 per hour.

OK, those are the facts. What is your opinion?
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Well the first thing that comes to mind is minimum wage is determined by each individual state here in the U.S. and I like it that way.

And at a glance it seems to be the most liberal states that have hiked their minimum wages in recent years. Yet study after study shows that raising the minimum wage does nothing to fight poverty.

Minimum wage workers for the most part are young kids. It is their first experience in learning job skills. They start there and move on to something bigger and better. And even after a year on the job over 2/3 of minimum wage workers get a raise without the help of government.

However I have noticed with McDonalds who did recently provide pay raises for their employees, are no longer hiring as many young kids but instead old fart retirees. You see when a business raises its wages either by force or on their own, then they prefer to take those with employment experience. Here in my neck of the woods, our McDonalds has an old gal taking the orders early in the morning when I will go through the drive thru for a $1.50 egg and cheese biscuit on those mornings I have to leave the house super early and a very mature looking bunch working the counter.

You know when I was 13 I started working. I did babysitting. I sure as heck did not get paid minimum wage. By the time I was 16 my dad bought me a car on the stipulation that I saved money for its maintenance, gas and insurance. I worked after school at a Dutch Pantry. I had to wear this pathetic costume complete with apron and hat. I didn't make minimum wage there either but had to rely on tips. I learned real quick how to get those tips. I had to be efficient at my job. I learned how to carry 4 plates of hot food on one arm and two in the other hand and deliver a table of six their meals at the same time. I learned time management. I learned people skills. All good things to carry me on to my next job that helped pay for college.
 
Lord of Planar said:
I can see raising the minimum wage at perhaps twice the COLA for a while, but there should be no sudden changes. With slow changes, you can have a better picture of what is happening. And do this with the quarterly changes. Not just annually.

The best way to increase pay, is accepting that supply and demand is real. If we manage to get rid of the millions of illegal workers, the supply of labor decreases, forcing employers to pay more to get adequate workers.

Same with increasing jobs. Make imports cost the same or more than US made products, and reduce or eliminate production taxes, and jobs will return, altering the supply and demand formula even more.
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Bolded - exactly right.
Which is why I don't expect we'll ever get rid of the millions of illegal workers. The big donors still like the cheap labor.

I could prove to be wrong, which would be a good thing, but my cynicism tells me I'm right.
 
Dittohead not! said:
Bolded - exactly right.
Which is why I don't expect we'll ever get rid of the millions of illegal workers. The big donors still like the cheap labor.

I could prove to be wrong, which would be a good thing, but my cynicism tells me I'm right.
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Yep.

The democrats say they are for the little people.

Well, they count on their votes, and wish to keep the little people under thumb, and make more.
 
Dittohead not! said:
Yes, and the Republicans are different how again?
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The are bad in a different way.

Are you under the incorrect idea that I like the republicans?

There simply is a lesser of two evils for me in my book.

You guys with your simply binary thinking...

I guess if we want to destroy this nation faster, go with the democrats. If we want that path of destruction to be slower, go with the republicans. At least with the republicans, maybe we voters have time to see our mistakes in who and how we elect, and change the system.
 
Dittohead not! said:
OK, those are the facts. What is your opinion?
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As an assistant restaurant manager for Taco Bell Corp. years ago, I saw first hand what happens in fast food when the minimum wage goes up. From 1989 to 1991, the minimum wage increased from $3.35 to $4.25. That doesn't sound like much, but when a good chunk of your workforce gets a 27% raise in two years in a labor-intensive business, that's a significant hit to your P&L. The company made it clear that changes would be implemented to reduce labor hours in the restaurants, and it did. Among the changes:

1. Whereas raw beef was previously sent to the stores in 10-pound bags, seasoned, and then cooked, beef prep was centralized and came to the stores pre-cooked, such that it only had to be reheated in hot water.

2. Lettuce, tomatoes, onions, and green onions were delivered in produce boxes and shredded or diced in the stores. Henceforth, they came in bags already prepped.

3. Corn taco shells were fried in the stores. After the changes, they came pre-fried in boxes.

4. Raw pinto beans were cooked in pressure cookers and then mashed by hand. After the changes went into effect, they came pre-cooked.

5. Previously, cheddar cheese came in large blocks and was shredded in the stores. After the changes, it came pre-shredded.

6. Salaried assistant manager positions (like mine) were eliminated and replaced with hourly "shift" or "lead" workers. Unit level (store) mangers were given responsibility for multiple outlets.

7. Across-the-board cuts were made to labor hours. You were just expected to keep up the same standards and run the restaurant with fewer workers.

Before the changes were implemented, the company often utilized various programs to hire disabled workers (such as people with Down syndrome) to work in the restaurants. Normally, they were restricted to food prep and cleaning duties, but once the food prep was largely done offsite we simply didn't need these people anymore, so we stopped utilizing them. Also, we tended to hire fewer sixteen-year-olds, because they were required by law to be out of the restaurants by 10:00 PM and they were limited in the number of hours they could be scheduled. Personally, I liked hiring them, because it was often their first job and they tended to be reliable and have good attitudes. But with fewer hours, we needed more flexibility from the workers we had, and the unstated fact was age became a more relevant factor in hiring.

So, yeah, there is no doubt in my mind that higher labor cost will mean fewer workers, especially young and disabled workers.
 
Lord of Planar said:
The are bad in a different way.

Are you under the incorrect idea that I like the republicans?

There simply is a lesser of two evils for me in my book.

You guys with your simply binary thinking...

I guess if we want to destroy this nation faster, go with the democrats. If we want that path of destruction to be slower, go with the republicans. At least with the republicans, maybe we voters have time to see our mistakes in who and how we elect, and change the system.
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I wasn't sure.
When you post:
The democrats say they are for the little people.

Well, they count on their votes, and wish to keep the little people under thumb, and make more.
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I think you could substitute "Republicans" or just "politicians" for "Democrats", and it would be equally correct.
 
Ahlevah said:
As an assistant restaurant manager for Taco Bell Corp. years ago, I saw first hand what happens in fast food when the minimum wage goes up. From 1989 to 1991, the minimum wage increased from $3.35 to $4.25. That doesn't sound like much, but when a good chunk of your workforce gets a 27% raise in two years in a labor-intensive business, that's a significant hit to your P&L. The company made it clear that changes would be implemented to reduce labor hours in the restaurants, and it did. Among the changes:

1. Whereas raw beef was previously sent to the stores in 10-pound bags, seasoned, and then cooked, beef prep was centralized and came to the stores pre-cooked, such that it only had to be reheated in hot water.

2. Lettuce, tomatoes, onions, and green onions were delivered in produce boxes and shredded or diced in the stores. Henceforth, they came in bags already prepped.

3. Corn taco shells were fried in the stores. After the changes, they came pre-fried in boxes.

4. Raw pinto beans were cooked in pressure cookers and then mashed by hand. After the changes went into effect, they came pre-cooked.

5. Previously, cheddar cheese came in large blocks and was shredded in the stores. After the changes, it came pre-shredded.

6. Salaried assistant manager positions (like mine) were eliminated and replaced with hourly "shift" or "lead" workers. Unit level (store) mangers were given responsibility for multiple outlets.

7. Across-the-board cuts were made to labor hours. You were just expected to keep up the same standards and run the restaurant with fewer workers.

Before the changes were implemented, the company often utilized various programs to hire disabled workers (such as people with Down syndrome) to work in the restaurants. Normally, they were restricted to food prep and cleaning duties, but once the food prep was largely done offsite we simply didn't need these people anymore, so we stopped utilizing them. Also, we tended to hire fewer sixteen-year-olds, because they were required by law to be out of the restaurants by 10:00 PM and they were limited in the number of hours they could be scheduled. Personally, I liked hiring them, because it was often their first job and they tended to be reliable and have good attitudes. But with fewer hours, we needed more flexibility from the workers we had, and the unstated fact was age became a more relevant factor in hiring.

So, yeah, there is no doubt in my mind that higher labor cost will mean fewer workers, especially young and disabled workers.
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That's the best argument I've heard yet for not dramatically raising he minimum wage.
 
Dittohead not! said:
versus 1.366? Could be. Exchange rates are variable. That's not enough of a difference to skew the numbers a lot though.
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I agree. Changed the big mac by what--six cents? :shrug:
 
Dittohead not! said:
That's the best argument I've heard yet for not dramatically raising he minimum wage.
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obviously whether dramatic or not any wage increase will increase efforts to eliminate employees. I ran a factory for decades. The more labor a part took to make the harder we looked for a way to reduced the labor cost. This meant a new design, new tools to make it faster, or buying the part rather than making it.
 
James972 said:
obviously whether dramatic or not any wage increase will increase efforts to eliminate employees. I ran a factory for decades. The more labor a part took to make the harder we looked for a way to reduced the labor cost. This meant a new design, new tools to make it faster, or buying the part rather than making it.
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Then, if the minimum wage were to be reduced, would that provide full employment?

And, if we had full employment, wouldn't that raise wages due to supply and demand?

And should wages go up due to supply and demand, wouldn't employers then try to reduce the number of employees?

Which would reduce the labor force,

and then reduce wages due to supply and demand...


Sounds like an endless cycle to me.
 
Dittohead not! said:
Then, if the minimum wage were to be reduced, would that provide full employment?

And, if we had full employment, wouldn't that raise wages due to supply and demand?

And should wages go up due to supply and demand, wouldn't employers then try to reduce the number of employees?

Which would reduce the labor force,

and then reduce wages due to supply and demand...


Sounds like an endless cycle to me.
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They never look at the changes produced by their changes. Everything is static to them rather than dynamic.
 
gdgyva said:
Who are you to decide what an owner should pay a worker?

Why wouldn't I, the manager, be the best decider of that

I have a job available....I offer said job....the more I pay, the better applicants I get....every manager in the country understands this basic concept of business

But...are there jobs, where minimum wage is the perfect starting wage? You bet

And most people don't stay at that wage very long.....again, it is a beginning wage

Government should stay the hell out of business....if i don't pay enough, people won't work

Or they will continue to do a crappy job....and the business will go under

The market always figures it out....always has, always will
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Wrong.

The supply and demand of the labor market will determine wages.
 
Dittohead not! said:
Then, if the minimum wage were to be reduced, would that provide full employment?
.
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there are many factors involved but certainly it would move toward full employment
 
James972 said:
of course supply demand and price are constantly changing. And????
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and moving toward full employment will reduce the supply of labor and increase the price.

which will increase the impetus to lower the number of employees, which will increase the supply, and decrease the price.

Interesting circle, isn't it?
 
Dittohead not! said:
and moving toward full employment will reduce the supply of labor and increase the price.

which will increase the impetus to lower the number of employees, which will increase the supply, and decrease the price.

Interesting circle, isn't it?
Click to expand...

interesting if you are just discovering the law of supply and demand I suppose
 
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