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The handwriting on the wall

If there is something demanded to be supplied here will be jobs,the only thing that destroys jobs is government regulation.

Government regulation and high taxes are not the only thing that destroys jobs

Free trade with low wage countries destroy jobs too
 
Yeah, so it is a Very Stupid waste of money that all the European economies are attracting their children to Tertiary Education by making it free, gratis an for-nothing. (Along with Health Care, in which the US too refuses to make nationalized.)

Anyone who thinks advancement in educational attainment is "not particularly worthy to an individual" is a first-class crackpot very likely because s/he does not have an advanced degree ...

As long as unemployed euro PHds are not too pround to bend their back and work with their hamds why not send everyone to college?
 
As long as unemployed euro PHds are not too pround to bend their back and work with their hamds why not send everyone to college?

Piffle and prattle.

I don't doubt that some doctorate-graduates today are having difficulty in finding a job, but the long-term trend is very different. We are coming out of one of the worst recessions since the Great Depression (and largely because politically we made some very tragic mistakes as of 2010, with the change of control in the HofR).

The reality as described by the Census Bureau* is this:
cb16-203_graphic_earnings_education.jpg


*"Census" (get it?), meaning a general reflection of the circumstances for all Americans.
 
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And note the footnote on the caption above: "Three quarters of the US population were third and higher generation".

Meaning what? Despite the huge influx of migrants, after the second generation, they are just as American as anyone else born here.

None the less, I must admit, that the US does not really need more immigrants (note the difference between "migrant" and "immigrant") to sustain its work-force, whereas Europe does.
 
It is not just the expense, it is that the university is now so broken that 4-6 years of time invested into their programs dont accomplish much. So little is asked of the customers (called students in a nifty Orwellian twist).

Broken how?

Whatever, it does not prevent the significant distinction in salaries noticed according to the higher level of post-secondary education obtained (from the Census Bureau):
Education - Earnings and Unemployment Rates by Educational Attainment (2015).jpg

Would you, personally, prefer to not have obtained a high-school diploma? Or a post-secondary degree ... ?
 
O
Piffle and prattle.

I don't doubt that some doctorate-graduates today are having difficulty in finding a job, but the long-term trend is very different. We are coming out of one of the worst recessions since the Great Depression (and largely because politically we made some very tragic mistakes as of 2010, with the change of control in the HofR).

The reality as described by the Census Bureau* is this:
cb16-203_graphic_earnings_education.jpg


*"Census" (get it?), meaning a general reflection of the circumstances for all Americans.

An advanced degree is needed for a select few people

But not for everyone.
 
Government regulation and high taxes are not the only thing that destroys jobs

Free trade with low wage countries destroy jobs too

By definition outsourcing jobs create jobs.
 
Yeah, so it is a Very Stupid waste of money that all the European economies are attracting their children to Tertiary Education by making it free, gratis an for-nothing. (Along with Health Care, in which the US too refuses to make nationalized.)

Anyone who thinks advancement in educational attainment is "not particularly worthy to an individual" is a first-class crackpot very likely because s/he does not have an advanced degree ...

Yes I'd assume Steve Jobs was quite the first class crackpot.

The argument is not that it is worth it, the argument is that it is completely overrated and is not necessary for most people attending school because there is a lack of demand for the degrees. A lot of people go to school and get credits in things like women's studies then they leave school with 60k worth of student loans, and guess what they can only get a job airing tables because no one cares about people who major in women's studies.
 
the key to building jobs, jobs, jobs is the challenge of moving our workforce up-market...

why not just ship 30 million illegals home and open up 30 million jobs for real Americans instead of letting them in to screw our workers and vote liberal?
 
Yes I'd assume Steve Jobs was quite the first class crackpot.

The argument is not that it is worth it, the argument is that it is completely overrated and is not necessary for most people attending school because there is a lack of demand for the degrees. A lot of people go to school and get credits in things like women's studies then they leave school with 60k worth of student loans, and guess what they can only get a job airing tables because no one cares about people who major in women's studies.

Citing one who was above or even below the norm is not the best example of cogent rebuttal.

Neither is a "lotta-people this and a lotta-people that" cogent rebuttal. It is hearsay, at best, and deviance at its worst.

I could give a damn about "overrated". There are plenty of ideas/notions/factors that are overrated by a public that swerves its attention according to America's BoobTube - and I suggest you turn yours off.

It's the stats that are debatable (if anything), all the rest is flimflam jabbering in a forum. But, when the stats are irrefutable it is time to take notice.

We are way, way beyond that in America, and heading at supersonic speed economically into the flat-side of a mountain. But that's democracy and the democratic way - we all have the fundamental right to vote our personal convictions.

It is changing those convictions that is the hard part ...
 
An advanced degree is needed for a select few people. But not for everyone.

Reread the chart.

It IS or should be for everyone who strives to achieve the necessary education.

I've no doctorate, and I don't feel any less at my potential. But my father did not even get that chance to fulfill his. This generation must be given, literally given, that opportunity.

We must allow our children to do so, and in a country that has wasted billions on the DoD it is about time it employed billions making Tertiary Education available to all comers free, gratis and for nothing.

Allowing them the opportunity to reach their full potential, regardless of the level - which is a lot better than remaining ignorant or insufficiently educated all one's life ...
 
Yes it does it equilibrates the excess supply of labor

There is an "Excess Supply" of labor, often called "unemployment".

Unlike an "excess of money", you just don't put in a bank at interest ...
 
Reread the chart.

It IS or should be for everyone who strives to achieve the necessary education.

I've no doctorate, and I don't feel any less at my potential. But my father did not even get that chance to fulfill his. This generation must be given, literally given, that opportunity.

We must allow our children to do so, and in a country that has wasted billions on the DoD it is about time it employed billions making Tertiary Education available to all comers free, gratis and for nothing.

Allowing them the opportunity to reach their full potential, regardless of the level - which is a lot better than remaining ignorant or insufficiently educated all one's life ...

Education is great.

Even the lowest person on the economic totem pole would be better off if they had more education

But if everyone on the island had advanced degrees someone with a PhD is still going to have to sweep the floor.

Probably the ones who mastered womens studies or african history rather than engineering or animal husbandry

But someone.

And then we need to explore the empty skulls of liberals at the department of labor under george bush who claimed that black people did not need education and should not be expected to read or write in order to qualify for jobs at Georgia Pacific.

How strange is that, huh?

I think we need to be sensible and understant that everyone needs a basic education but not everyone needs 20 years of school to be a successful contributing member of society
 
MORE BRAIN THAN BRAWN

I think we need to be sensible and understant that everyone needs a basic education but not everyone needs 20 years of school to be a successful contributing member of society

It has become apparently true that a basic education (High School diploma) is simply not enough.

Sorry to bore you with the same argument repeated over and over again. But with Manufacturing currently providing barely 13% of GDP any further increase will depend upon the use of automation. Manufacturing is not dying in the US, but is making a major reformation that accommodates not only machine-automated fabrication but also new-tech design-to-product cycling.

Meaning that the industry will require "more brain than brawn".

Once again, I insist that it was a colossal mistake not to listen to Hillary/Bernie who proposed subsidized post-secondary education for our youth and those who want to "recycle themselves".

We are going to regret that mistake enormously ...
 
MORE BRAIN THAN BRAWN



It has become apparently true that a basic education (High School diploma) is simply not enough.

Sorry to bore you with the same argument repeated over and over again. But with Manufacturing currently providing barely 13% of GDP any further increase will depend upon the use of automation. Manufacturing is not dying in the US, but is making a major reformation that accommodates not only machine-automated fabrication but also new-tech design-to-product cycling.

Meaning that the industry will require "more brain than brawn".

Once again, I insist that it was a colossal mistake not to listen to Hillary/Bernie who proposed subsidized post-secondary education for our youth and those who want to "recycle themselves".

We are going to regret that mistake enormously ...

I am not against education but many men do not need college

They can qualify for a good job through trade school

And be careful about throwing more money at education

Much of the money just ends up being wasted and benefits no matter me except the educarirs
 
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I am not against education but many men do not need college

They can qualify for a good job through trade school

And be careful about throwing more money at education

Much of the money just ends up being wasted and benefits no matter me except the educarirs

Trade school is the bottom-rung of the post-secondary education. In fact, when merged with apprenticeship, as Germany has done, it works wonderfully well. More than 90% of all German apprentices find a job after graduation - for the most part at the company at which they apprenticed. (Which seems like good sense for the company.)

If that is what either a child or even an adult wants, then I don't see why they should be not allowed the opportunity to do so - and subsidized by the Fed at state schools. For the most part, today, it's because they don't have the financial means - which is why Bernie/Hillary plan would have been a miracle-solution for many of our young.

And I disagree about "throwing money at education". Where we have been throwing away money is on the DoD (54% of the total discretionary budget). Perhaps you haven't seen the pie-chart of US government discretionary income.

So, try this on for size:
Budget - Discretionary Spending 2015.jpg

Of the 85% of students obtaining a High School diploma in the US, only 35% are graduating with a two- or four-year post-secondary diploma. That's somewhat less than half of them.

So, what are that half that don't have expertise to do?

Sweep the streets, or pick up the garbage? Mind you, I am not mocking these professions, but they are amongst the lower-paying kind, and I don't think they have much promise of "career progression" ...
 
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Really like how automobiles displaced all the buggy drivers?

Stupid argument. Automobiles do not have the ability to produce themselves. See the difference.
 
Oh, come off it. Too much drama in this forum!

Just go back to school and get the qualifications that you need to find a job. You grew up thinking life was easy.

Well, we aint on "Easy Street" any more. As always, the world changes and we are obliged to change with it.

(Oh, dammit, I forgot. The Dork is going to change all that! Please excuse me, I hadn't realized that we just elected a magician ... !)


I have an excellent job, and I am financially independent. That does not change the fact that automation is going to replace a very large portion of human labor and within 10 years you will have mass public unrest as a result. My family will be in a place where that will have minimal impact, but for most people living in urban centers, (where most people do live) they will witness the Detroit effect in there own cities. You cannot take away peoples ability to support themselves and think they will not react negatively.
 
"Eventually" is not now

You and other dreamers walk around as "someday" is already here and it isn't


It is in places. If you want to see what is coming to a place near you simply visit the areas already decimated by automation and offshoring like Detroit or many other rust belt industrial areas. What has already happened in those places will happen in most all high density population centers within 10 years.
At the pace automation is progressing, about half of all jobs done by humans today will be obsolete by 2030.
 
"we have been automating work for two centuries and so far the effect is to create more jobs, not fewer. Farming once employed more than 90% of people, and without them we would have starved. Today, it’s just a few percent. The followers of the mysterious “Captain Swing” who destroyed threshing machines in 1830 were convinced that machines stole work. Instead of which, farm labourers became factory workers; factory workers later became call-centre workers. In both transitions, pay rose and work became safer, less physically demanding and less exposed to the elements.

In 1949, the cybernetics pioneer Norbert Wiener warned that computers in factories could usher in “an industrial revolution of unmitigated cruelty”. In 1964, a panel of the great and the good, including the Nobel prize winners Linus Pauling and Gunnar Myrdal, warned that automation would mean “potentially unlimited output by systems of machines which will require little cooperation from human beings”. This hoary old myth just keeps coming round again and again." Nothing to fear from the rise of robots | Matt Ridley

Ultimately I might add, successfully automating to the point where human labor is, for the most part, taken out of the equation represents 'post-scarcity' -- a world where this truly is the cheapest mode to produce is not an impoverished world, its a wealthy one.
 
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Seems to me that the issue is multifaceted, and there are no easy answers:

- Ideally, each person will be educated such that they can come close to fulfilling their potential in terms of being productive in a way that adds value to society. Done properly, education is an investment which pays a large dividend over the long run. It's one of the best investments we can make to lift our society overall.

- The cost of most college education in the US has become highly unaffordable for many in the middle class. That has resulted in many people being under-educated relative to their ability and falling short of their potential to be productive, which is bad for both them and society. The cost needs to be brought down a lot and/or we need to subsidize college education (or other training beyond high school), but admissions standards should be maintained.

- As with competition in general, global trade inevitably produces winners and losers, in various sectors in various countries. Everyone can't win when there's direct competition. And I don't think we can simply educate those who are losing in this competition to do jobs where they can "win", because some people aren't endowed with the potential to do some jobs, even if education for those jobs is offered. The notion that anyone can do anything with sufficient motivation and effort is just not true - each person has their limits. So some people may need to be shielded against foreign completion with protectionism, which is a somewhat bitter pill to swallow, but perhaps there aren't really any other good alternatives for them.
 
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