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Twin Peaks

Ganesh

Ganesh

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Does capitalism necessarily mean democracy, or does it even favor democracy? Today we tend to merge the two concepts, but there is strong evidence that democracy can easily atrophy in the face of unrestrained economic force.

We now have, as economist Yanis Varoufakis puts it, huge twin peaks within the developed economies. A mountain of debt, and a mountain of unused capital. Demand falls away as the imperatives of capitalism extract profit, and demand ever more spartan attributes from the work force. This is further exacerbated today by the availability of technology. So a mountain of capital is accumulated, but not invested, due to fear of low demand. This is a realistic fear, as unemployment and underemployment grows, undercutting demand further.

And so the desires of the masses diverge from the priorities of the rentier class. The paybacks for investment in society and its needs are not immediately in focus for those enjoying wealth today, and for some, perhaps not understood at all. Democracy is of no utility to this group, indeed,it is more a threat than a support.

This is an unstable system, and Varoufakis makes the point that such systems tend to come to an abrupt end.

https://www.ted.com/talks/yanis_varoufakis_capitalism_will_eat_democracy_unless_we_speak_uphttps://www.ted.com/talks/yanis_varoufakis_capitalism_will_eat_democracy_unless_we_speak_up

(18 minutes but worth watching)
 
18 Minutes is too long.....?
 
So, in plain English please, what is this guy proposing?
 
DA60 said:
Which means what exactly?
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His solution to the issue is a rather exotic blending of economic theories that would produce a society where the line between worker, owner, and investor blurs to a large degree. It's more than a little idealistic, but his comments on democracy and the market are worth hearing. He speaks in English, not Greek.
 
Ganesh said:
His solution to the issue is a rather exotic blending of economic theories that would produce a society where the line between worker, owner, and investor blurs to a large degree. It's more than a little idealistic, but his comments on democracy and the market are worth hearing. He speaks in English, not Greek.
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I like the idea of employees owning a stake in their company. It solves the capital accumulation problem, which largely solves the aggregate demand problem.

But I don't know how you get there from here.
 
JohnfrmClevelan said:
I like the idea of employees owning a stake in their company. It solves the capital accumulation problem, which largely solves the aggregate demand problem.

But I don't know how you get there from here.
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employees are free to peacefully buy all the stock they want!! A liberal though will want to get there from here at the point of a gun. LIberalism is based in pure violence.
 
Ganesh said:
A blending of Marx, Keynes, and Adam Smith.
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seems a little difficult given that the 3 despise each other and have contradictory ideas!!
 
James972 said:
employees are free to peacefully buy all the stock they want!! A liberal though will want to get there from here at the point of a gun. LIberalism is based in pure violence.
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No liberalism prevents violence.
 
James972 said:
seems a little difficult given that the 3 despise each other and have contradictory ideas!!
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It is a little difficult. Did you understand the point that he was making?
 
Ganesh said:
Does capitalism necessarily mean democracy, or does it even favor democracy?
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Those two are ideologically and diametrically opposed.
 
EMNofSeattle said:
No liberalism prevents violence.
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it does?? So far as I know liberalism is 100% about more and more govt violence. While conservatives and libertarians only want peaceful voluntary relationships between people.
 
Paralogic said:
Those two are ideologically and diametrically opposed.
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capitalism is very democratic. This is why Friedman wrote his most famous book "Capitalism and Freedom". People who want and have economic freedom will want political freedom too.
 
James972 said:
it does?? So far as I know liberalism is 100% about more and more govt violence. While conservatives and libertarians only want peaceful voluntary relationships between people.
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American conservatives have promoted more government violence for decades now through the buildup of the military industrial complex and the militarization of our police.
 
Geoist said:
American conservatives have promoted more government violence for decades now through the buildup of the military industrial complex and the militarization of our police.
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the military won 2 world wars, recreated the world in our image, and is now policeman to the world. Its the greatest force for peace in all of human history. 1+1=2.
 
James972 said:
it does?? So far as I know liberalism is 100% about more and more govt violence. While conservatives and libertarians only want peaceful voluntary relationships between people.
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Look at the violence before we had effective labor regulation
 
James972 said:
the military won 2 world wars, recreated the world in our image, and is now policeman to the world. Its the greatest force for peace in all of human history. 1+1=2.
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It is funny how when it comes to the military and blowing s**** up government is "a force for good." But when it comes to preserving the environment and keeping corporations in check, suddenly government is "the ultimate evil."

Such silly logic.
 
Geoist said:
It is funny how when it comes to the military and blowing s**** up.
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saving the world from HItler Stalin and Mao is blowing things up to a libcommie!!!
 
Geoist said:
But when it comes to preserving the environment and keeping corporations in check, suddenly government is "the ultimate evil."

Such silly logic.
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1) corporations are kept in check by customers and workers who can send them into bankruptcy in a second by not working for them or not buying their products. Do you understand. 1+1=2
 
James972 said:
1) corporations are kept in check by customers and workers who can send them into bankruptcy in a second by not working for them or not buying their products.
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Yeah, that worked beautifully in the 19th century.
 
James972 said:
saving the world from HItler Stalin and Mao is blowing things up to a libcommie!!!
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Those psychopaths came to power because of conservative politics.

Hitler: WWI happens because of militaristic buildup led by a bunch of conservative morons. Everyone is at fault, yet Germany is blamed and saddled with the debt. Enter Adolf and the Nazis.

Stalin: The ultra-conservative policies of Czar Nicholas II isolated the crown from the Russian people. Enter the Bolshevik Revolution.

Mao: The conservative and corrupt Chiang Kai-Shek led purges against opponents and stamped out freedom of speech, fueling the communist sentiment in China.
 
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