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Raising Minimum Wage to $12 by 2020 Would Lift Wages for 35 Million American Workers

Re: Raising Minimum Wage to $12 by 2020 Would Lift Wages for 35 Million American Work

LOL!!

Okay. You got me. I'm projecting a "doomsday scenario" by saying a President Hillary will be worse than a President Trump. :roll:

all her ads say that she is going to create all these jobs, but after all the taxes she wants to level against businesses who is going to create all
these jobs that she wants?

that is like Obama demanding that businesses hire people but then making it more expensive to hire people and then he sits back and wonders
why people are having a hard time finding jobs.

I swear these people don't get it.
 
Re: Raising Minimum Wage to $12 by 2020 Would Lift Wages for 35 Million American Work

LOL!!

Okay. You got me. I'm projecting a "doomsday scenario" by saying a President Hillary will be worse than a President Trump. :roll:

You don't know that.
There's that possibility (very small I admit) that Hillary might actually become a good President.

You do realize that me saying "doomsday scenario" is hyperbole,don't you?
And you are still behaving like a bible thumping by taking things out of context just to win an internet debate and convert the other person.
Rather pathetic if you ask me.
Sorry if I refuse to join neither the Hillary or Trump cults.
 
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Re: Raising Minimum Wage to $12 by 2020 Would Lift Wages for 35 Million American Work

Your argument, though well put, is way off base. The Depression Era is of absolutely no relevance whatsoever economically to the US presently, except to note that it was instigated by a frenzy on Wall Street - just as was the Great Recession of 2009/10.

First of all, your entire post completely sidesteps the points I raised. Both Marxism (and -isms like it) and MMT (and -isms like it), while very different from each other, are both very liberal schools of thought, and neither would be so obsessed with minimum wage legislation like today's liberals are. They would be asking the today's liberal why they are so obsessed with it and why they believe it to be some imperative that will save the American economy. They have other suggestions that do not require minimum wage legislation or other mindless arbitrary policies like many of those that seem to enthrall modern liberals.

It was your post that started with 'this was introduced in the 1930s' and 'we must continue to advance its cause.' That's why I point out that an 80 year old policy need not necessarily be maintained or advanced, because it may well cease to work as time goes on.

Poverty today is of quite a different order in that it is a permanent condition for about 50 million Americans given that the 15% level of population below the Poverty Threshold has existed since 1965, which is half a century ago.

Poverty as a permanent condition is not "quite different." How is it different? If anything it's different only in that living standards in poverty are higher today than way back when. A long time ago, poverty was dig-in-the-dirt poor. Today it's still dysfunctional and miserable relative to not-poverty, but not relative to the poverty of long-ago.

Let's just cut all the finagling with government subventions of minimum-wage earners, do away with them and simply boost the Minimum Wage to 12/15 dollars an hour.

Let's not. CBO guesstimates that raising it to a little over $9 might permanently eliminate 100,000 low wage jobs, yet raising it another dollar to $10 might eliminate 500,000, 5x the number as raising it to $9. If the CBO is even roughly accurate in that estimate, then what might we suppose could be the number of low wage jobs eliminated if it's raised to something like $15, as you're advocating?

I repeat as well: The rise in the minimum-wage if imposed across the country, WILL NOT trigger inflation.

Yet in a few sentences you're going to say it increases aggregate demand, which is associated with inflation. If more people are spending more dollars, prices will rise.

The beneficial aspect is that with more money in their pocket, and since those below the Poverty Threshold spend almost 100% of their earnings, people will spend it - so it will translate directly into a boost of overall Demand.

Which cannot but help the economy by instigating increased sales of goods and services.

It is all goodness ... !

It really isn't, no economic policy is. There is collateral damage and you don't want to acknowledge it. Low wage jobs are phased out, eliminated, consolidated, and that trend will accelerate if minimum wage is doubled like you're advocating.

Last thing I'll s
 
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Re: Raising Minimum Wage to $12 by 2020 Would Lift Wages for 35 Million American Work

I say about 30 million liberal illegals which is a huge % of the work force!! Get rid of them and you have huge upward pressure on wages. Next, get rid of the huge liberal corporate taxes and bring back 10 million more jobs with more huge pressure on wages. Next make the liberal unions illegal again and bring back another 10 million jobs and huge upward pressure on wages.

Do you understand? Liberals kill jobs and still get support from the folks whose jobs they killed. Democracy is failing and liberals are taking full advantage merely to gain political power.

You do realize that both the Democrats and Republicans,the Left and the Right have ruled this country for over a century and look where it has gotten us.
It's time to ditch both parties and start electing Responsible Capitalists.
 
Re: Raising Minimum Wage to $12 by 2020 Would Lift Wages for 35 Million American Work

You don't know that.
There's that possibility (very small I admit) that Hillary might actually become a good President.

Believe me...there is absolutely no possibility that Hillary will be a good President.

You do realize that me saying "doomsday scenario" is hyperbole,don't you?

Why yes, I do. In fact, I as much told you so.

And you are still behaving like a bible thumping by taking things out of context just to win an internet debate and convert the other person.

Bible thumping??? Me???

LOL!!

Now you are pulling crap out of your ass and betraying the fact that you don't know a damned thing about me.

"bible thumping!!!"

Rather pathetic if you ask me.
Sorry if I refuse to join neither the Hillary or Trump cults.

Don't be sorry. Have the courage to own your position without getting bent out of shape about it. I mean, your use of projection, hyperbole and outright idiocy isn't doing you any favors.
 
Re: Raising Minimum Wage to $12 by 2020 Would Lift Wages for 35 Million American Work

Believe me...there is absolutely no possibility that Hillary will be a good President.


Who the hell are you and why should I believe you.
Did you use a crystal ball?]

How do you know that?
Are you a time traveler from Gallifrey?
That's some superior complex you got going there.






Bible thumping??? Me???
I said you are behaving like a bible thumper.
Reading comprehension is not your strong point,is it?

Now you are pulling crap out of your ass and betraying the fact that you don't know a damned thing about me.

Mycroft said:
Oh, for sure you are free to vote for whomever you like...even if that vote is worse than useless if it results in Hillary getting elected.
Your very words.
That is exactly how bible thumpers act,and you are no different.
I know you like to tell people who to vote for.
How very undemocratic of you.

Don't be sorry. Have the courage to own your position without getting bent out of shape about it. I mean, your use of projection, hyperbole and outright idiocy isn't doing you any favors.

Words used by someone who knows he's defeated but wants to safe face.
You have failed to convince me of anything and failed to convert me.
You sir,are a FAILURE.
Just like a bible thumper.
You seem like someone who insists on having the last word.
Go proselytize somewhere else.
 
Re: Raising Minimum Wage to $12 by 2020 Would Lift Wages for 35 Million American Work

Who the hell are you and why should I believe you.
Did you use a crystal ball?]

How do you know that?
Are you a time traveler from Gallifrey?
That's some superior complex you got going there.







I said you are behaving like a bible thumper.
Reading comprehension is not your strong point,is it?




Your very words.
That is exactly how bible thumpers act,and you are no different.
I know you like to tell people who to vote for.
How very undemocratic of you.



Words used by someone who knows he's defeated but wants to safe face.
You have failed to convince me of anything and failed to convert me.
You sir,are a FAILURE.
Just like a bible thumper.
You seem like someone who insists on having the last word.
Go proselytize somewhere else.

LOL!!

What on earth makes you think I'm trying to "convert" you?

I've, in fact, said that you are perfectly free to vote whatever way you want.

Please don't take my derision for your stated preference as anything other than that...derision. I really don't give a rat's ass who you choose to vote for...even if it is worse than useless. You make your own choices, dude.

In any case, my contention that Hillary will be nothing other than a bad President is based solely on her past history. A "crystal ball" isn't required...just reasoning.
 
Re: Raising Minimum Wage to $12 by 2020 Would Lift Wages for 35 Million American Work

Here's a thought:

Australia has the highest minimum wage of all developed nations: $9.54 an hour after taxes. That's $15.96 an hour before taxes. Compare that to the United State's $7.25 before taxes, with a typical $6.26 after taxes. Luxembourg ranks second, with a minimum wage of $9.24 after taxes.Jan 31, 2016

(result of typing "minimum wage by country" into the search window)

So, how are the Aussies doing with that high minimum wage? All out of work, Mate?

So, type "unemployment in Australia" into that window, and you get:

Australia's seasonally adjusted unemployment rate unexpectedly fell to 5.7 percent in March of 2016 from 5.8 percent in February and below market consensus of 5.9 percent. It is the lowest jobless rate since September 2013 as the economy added 26,100 jobs and the number of unemployed decreased by 7,300.Aug 18, 2016

Does raising the minimum wage cause unemployment to rise then?
 
Re: Raising Minimum Wage to $12 by 2020 Would Lift Wages for 35 Million American Work

LOL!!

What on earth makes you think I'm trying to "convert" you?

I've, in fact, said that you are perfectly free to vote whatever way you want.

Please don't take my derision for your stated preference as anything other than that...derision. I really don't give a rat's ass who you choose to vote for...even if it is worse than useless. You make your own choices, dude.

In any case, my contention that Hillary will be nothing other than a bad President is based solely on her past history. A "crystal ball" isn't required...just reasoning.

I guess some people can't take the hint that the conversation is over
Like I said,someone who needs to have the last words.
So childish.
Thank you for proving that.
You are not as smart as you seem to think you are.
Now run along and sit with the other kiddies and let the grown-up talk among themselves.
 
Re: Raising Minimum Wage to $12 by 2020 Would Lift Wages for 35 Million American Work

Here's a thought:



(result of typing "minimum wage by country" into the search window)

So, how are the Aussies doing with that high minimum wage? All out of work, Mate?

So, type "unemployment in Australia" into that window, and you get:



Does raising the minimum wage cause unemployment to rise then?

So that happens to one country so that must mean it applies across the planet?
Is that what Libertarianism is teaching nowadays?
 
Re: Raising Minimum Wage to $12 by 2020 Would Lift Wages for 35 Million American Work

I guess some people can't take the hint that the conversation is over
Like I said,someone who needs to have the last words.
So childish.
Thank you for proving that.
You are not as smart as you seem to think you are.
Now run along and sit with the other kiddies and let the grown-up talk among themselves.

sigh...

For someone who ends a conversation, you sure do have a hard time when it comes to talking.

Not to mention that your "talking" has been reduced to childish blather that one would likely hear on a playground.

Be that as it may, if you insist on not talking that's fine with me. You are not very interesting anyway.

Tschuss
 
Re: Raising Minimum Wage to $12 by 2020 Would Lift Wages for 35 Million American Work

sigh...

For someone who ends a conversation, you sure do have a hard time when it comes to talking.

Not to mention that your "talking" has been reduced to childish blather that one would likely hear on a playground.

Be that as it may, if you insist on not talking that's fine with me. You are not very interesting anyway.

Tschuss

Sigh right back at you.

Einstein once said the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results.
You are fitting the bill quite nicely.
Are you too stupid to know when the conversation is over?
Go proselytize somewhere else.

I'm going to ignore you because you are too stupid to waste my time on.
If you want to talk to no one but yourself,please go right ahead and be an idiot and respond to this post.
 
Re: Raising Minimum Wage to $12 by 2020 Would Lift Wages for 35 Million American Work

Sigh right back at you.

Einstein once said the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results.
You are fitting the bill quite nicely.
Are you too stupid to know when the conversation is over?
Go proselytize somewhere else.

I'm going to ignore you because you are too stupid to waste my time on.
If you want to talk to no one but yourself,please go right ahead and be an idiot and respond to this post.

You are STILL talking? :doh
 
Re: Raising Minimum Wage to $12 by 2020 Would Lift Wages for 35 Million American Work

Apparently,some people here are too idiotic to know when they are beaten and are starting to turn into creepy stalkers.
Someone just got reported here for harassment and stalking.
 
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Re: Raising Minimum Wage to $12 by 2020 Would Lift Wages for 35 Million American Work

Apparently,some people here are too idiotic to know when they are beaten and are starting to turn into creepy stalkers.

And now you are talking to yourself.

LOL!!
 
Re: Raising Minimum Wage to $12 by 2020 Would Lift Wages for 35 Million American Work

Apparently,some people here are too idiotic to know when they are beaten and are starting to turn into creepy stalkers.

Tell you what, Verthaine, I'll do what you cannot seem to do:


you-are-dismissed-749788.jpg
 
Re: Raising Minimum Wage to $12 by 2020 Would Lift Wages for 35 Million American Work

They would be asking the today's liberal why they are so obsessed with it and why they believe it to be some imperative that will save the American economy.

The MW is not intended to "save the economy". What saves the economy is to get the Employment-to-population Ratio back up to 63% (its pre-2008/9 Great Recession value).

It is intended to give some breathing room to the 50 million Americans who are incarcerated below the Poverty Threshold. And, if done correctly (with a common agreement amongst all concerned of when the MW is raised or not nationally and by how much, as I proposed), it could work rather well to meet that objective ...

Wage negotiations are battlefields in our country, played out often-enough on TV. It would be better done if cool heads just got together with "the facts" (as each party sees them) to work out a common solution ...
 
Re: Raising Minimum Wage to $12 by 2020 Would Lift Wages for 35 Million American Work

That's why I point out that an 80 year old policy need not necessarily be maintained or advanced, because it may well cease to work as time goes on.

I was making an historical reference, that's all.

The question of the Minimum Wage is central to America's obscene number of people jailed below the Poverty Threshold because of mistakes made in their youth. They did not get the right skills for the right jobs.

Obviously, if we had policies in place to assure they got the right education and skill-sets, they might not have turned to thieving.

Besides the link between poverty and thievery and incarceration could not be greater in any other country than America. In fact, as regards said incarceration, the US is amongst the most prevalent of nations to do so for all sorts of crimes. To wit (from here States of Incarceration: The Global Context 2016):
Around the globe, governments respond to illegal activity and social unrest in different ways. Here in the United States, policymakers in the 1970s made the decision to start incarcerating Americans at globally unprecedented rates. The decades that followed have revealed that the growth in the U.S. prison population can be more closely attributed to ideological policy choices than actual crime rates. The record also shows that our country’s experiment with mass incarceration has not managed to significantly enhance public safety, but instead has consistently and disproportionately stunted the social and economic well being of poor communities and communities of color for generations.

Throwing people in jail helter-skelter is not the solution (except for some companies raking in profits making/running the prisons). Making sure they work for a decent living is ...
 
Re: Raising Minimum Wage to $12 by 2020 Would Lift Wages for 35 Million American Work

Will someone else please inform the mods that Mycroft is stalking and harassing me.
 
Re: Raising Minimum Wage to $12 by 2020 Would Lift Wages for 35 Million American Work

CBO guesstimates that raising it to a little over $9 might permanently eliminate 100,000 low wage jobs, yet raising it another dollar to $10 might eliminate 500,000, 5x the number as raising it to $9.CBO guesstimates that raising it to a little over $9 might permanently eliminate 100,000 low wage jobs, yet raising it another dollar to $10 might eliminate 500,000, 5x the number as raising it to $9. If the CBO is even roughly accurate in that estimate, then what might we suppose could be the number of low wage jobs eliminated if it's raised to something like $15, as you're advocating?

The CBO made that estimate in 2014, and it was heatedly debated even then. See here. (Careful about your "factual evidence", fella.)

In a full-fledged recession at the time that may have been true - it's hard to say. But we are no longer in a full-fledged recession, we are coming out of it. And, as an economist, I seriously doubt that as the economy grows the same result would occur.

If we put money, much more money, by means of an enhanced MW, into the pockets of those below the Poverty Threshold, then in a growing economy people will spend it. And companies will shirk it off or (maybe, it depends) increase some price-levels moderately* - for as long as Demand is solidly persistent.

And our economy IS PRESENTLY MENDING, and it has been for two years (see the increase in the Employment-to-Population Ratio here dammit)! So I'd like to know why all the razmataz-BS in the news saying that aint necessarily so.

Meaning this electoral season is well underway; with all the necessary discordant BS typical of political debates in America. Where politicians on TV yell first and think later - especially The Dork ...

*Let's also not forget that cost-levels have been wrung to the bare-minimum by companies as a result of the Recession. Which is the reason that unemployment (as a percentage of population) levels that are improving remain nonetheless historically low.
_______________________
 
Re: Raising Minimum Wage to $12 by 2020 Would Lift Wages for 35 Million American Work

There are now about 8 million illegal workers, but the are concentrated in just a few industries. In those industries, median wages might go up by as much as 20% (absent illegal labor) but the SJW crowd want far more (at the bottom) and for all industries.

The total civilian population in the US (as of August) was 253.8M. So, 8M illegals is 3.2% of the total.

B F D ...
___________________
 
Re: Raising Minimum Wage to $12 by 2020 Would Lift Wages for 35 Million American Work

The total civilian population in the US (as of August) was 253.8M. So, 8M illegals is 3.2% of the total.

B F D ...
___________________

Federal MW workers are even a lower percentage of the US population total so BFD. ;)
 
Re: Raising Minimum Wage to $12 by 2020 Would Lift Wages for 35 Million American Work

Federal MW workers are even a lower percentage of the US population total so BFD. ;)

M... r... a...
 
Re: Raising Minimum Wage to $12 by 2020 Would Lift Wages for 35 Million American Work

The MW is not intended to "save the economy". What saves the economy is to get the Employment-to-population Ratio back up to 63% (its pre-2008/9 Great Recession value).

The liberal emphasis on (I even call it obsession with, and I think that's fair) the minimum wage is such that it seems they think it will practically save the economy. Second, we don't make government policy that "gets the ___ ratio to ___." The government doesn't just decide and dictate what a certain ratio will be. A blanket wage floor policy is a blunt instrument, and even prominent liberal economic theorists would question why the obsession with the minimum wage in particular.

It is intended to give some breathing room to the 50 million Americans who are incarcerated below the Poverty Threshold. And, if done correctly (with a common agreement amongst all concerned of when the MW is raised or not nationally and by how much, as I proposed), it could work rather well to meet that objective ...

You seem to be interweaving the minimum wage with intergenerational poverty as though the two are one and the same. This ignores numerous other factors that contribute to intergenerational poverty. When people (for whatever reasons within their control or outside their control) end up with a lifestyle and skillset that is of no value to anyone, that doesn't have much to do with the minimum wage.
 
Re: Raising Minimum Wage to $12 by 2020 Would Lift Wages for 35 Million American Work

The CBO made that estimate in 2014, and it was heatedly debated even then. See here. (Careful about your "factual evidence", fella.)

1) When did I call it "factual evidence?" I called it a guesstimate. Hell, I even acknowledge that in the same analysis in which they gave those estimates, they nonetheless spoke positively about raising the minimum wage.

2) It will be heatedly debated no matter when they make their estimates, but who better to consider than the CBO regarding just how many low-wage jobs will be permanently eliminated if/as minimum wages are increased?

In a full-fledged recession at the time that may have been true - it's hard to say. But we are no longer in a full-fledged recession, we are coming out of it. And, as an economist, I seriously doubt that as the economy grows the same result would occur.

Significant economic growth can and will nullify the negative effects of a hiked minimum wage (see for example the Australian mining boom concurrent with its wage floor hikes). But with something as variable as a maturing American economy in the our exponentially more data-driven, global free trade oriented world, a sweeping statutory wage floor hike is a blunt instrument.

You can argue the positives outweigh the negatives, and tough-**** for those negatively affected, but you weren't arguing that. You were arguing the effects are all good.

Again I'll go back to the CBO. Assuming their estimates are more or less accurate, that a $9.10 MW kills 100k jobs, and a $10.10 MW kills 500k jobs, assuming that's roughly accurate, what would we expect the number of jobs would be eliminated by a $15 MW?
 
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