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Tesla/Solar City merger

faithful_servant said:
..and now imagine the environmental disaster that disposing of the worn out batteries from the electric cars will cause and the current environmental damage being done to make those batteries.

Tesla?s Electric Cars Aren?t as Green as You Might Think | WIRED
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No environmental disaster on the disposed Tesla batteries as there is nothing toxic in them, and they are completely recycled when returned to Tesla. The mining of aluminum and copper in the battery apparently has the biggest environmental impact. How Green are Automotive Lithium-Ion Batteries? | HowStuffWorks

Tesla's vision of solar powering the home and transportation will create much less environmental impact than the current situation and its sustainable.
 
laska said:
No environmental disaster on the disposed Tesla batteries as there is nothing toxic in them, and they are completely recycled when returned to Tesla. The mining of aluminum and copper in the battery apparently has the biggest environmental impact. How Green are Automotive Lithium-Ion Batteries? | HowStuffWorks

Tesla's vision of solar powering the home and transportation will create much less environmental impact than the current situation and its sustainable.
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...and what happens to them when they aren't returned to Tesla??
 
Below is an interesting quote from Musk in his master Plan Part deuce:

"What really matters to accelerate a sustainable future is being able to scale up production volume as quickly as possible. That is why Tesla engineering has transitioned to focus heavily on designing the machine that makes the machine -- turning the factory itself into a product. A first principles physics analysis of automotive production suggests that somewhere between a 5 to 10 fold improvement is achievable by version 3 on a roughly 2 year iteration cycle. The first Model 3 factory machine should be thought of as version 0.5, with version 1.0 probably in 2018."

If he doesn't lose incentive by watching old Terminator movies and accomplishes making the machines and robots in his factories much more efficient in building vehicles, costs are going WAY down. 5 to 10 X improvements will be a huge competitive advantage. Add what they are doing at the battery gigafactory in lowering costs through scale and the continued improvement of the chemistry in the batteries in improving energy density(adding Silicon is interesting), Tesla is laser focused on drastically lowering costs. Musk stated the following in 2014 at shareholder meeting:"We will be at it hard core until we are 10X better than ICE".
 
laska said:
Below is an interesting quote from Musk in his master Plan Part deuce:

"What really matters to accelerate a sustainable future is being able to scale up production volume as quickly as possible. That is why Tesla engineering has transitioned to focus heavily on designing the machine that makes the machine -- turning the factory itself into a product. A first principles physics analysis of automotive production suggests that somewhere between a 5 to 10 fold improvement is achievable by version 3 on a roughly 2 year iteration cycle. The first Model 3 factory machine should be thought of as version 0.5, with version 1.0 probably in 2018."

If he doesn't lose incentive by watching old Terminator movies and accomplishes making the machines and robots in his factories much more efficient in building vehicles, costs are going WAY down. 5 to 10 X improvements will be a huge competitive advantage. Add what they are doing at the battery gigafactory in lowering costs through scale and the continued improvement of the chemistry in the batteries in improving energy density(adding Silicon is interesting), Tesla is laser focused on drastically lowering costs. Musk stated the following in 2014 at shareholder meeting:"We will be at it hard core until we are 10X better than ICE".
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Fine he has a master plan. Notice how he does not explain how he is going to finance it.

When Tesla makes consistent profits AND sells cars the middle class can actually afford, then I will be truly impressed.

Until then, his 'master plan' sound like Kool Aid to me.
 
DA60 said:
Fine he has a master plan. Notice how he does not explain how he is going to finance it.

When Tesla makes consistent profits AND sells cars the middle class can actually afford, then I will be truly impressed.

Until then, his 'master plan' sound like Kool Aid to me.
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Musk stated today that the model 3 is fully engineered and they are on schedule for production beginning early next summer, and that once at full production will generate 20 billion gross revenue and 5 billion gross profit. Also, the gigafactory, which is ahead of schedule, will have the ability to produce 3X more than originally planned.
 
DA60 said:
Fine he has a master plan. Notice how he does not explain how he is going to finance it.

When Tesla makes consistent profits AND sells cars the middle class can actually afford, then I will be truly impressed.

Until then, his 'master plan' sound like Kool Aid to me.
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And the gigafactory is shaped like a diamond, faces the North star, and there's wild horses in the valley that it sets. Musk calls it all romantic, I kinda agree. I'd love to sip some grape koolaid watching the pretty wild horses.
 
Electric car users now have to pay to charge up on the motorway after the vehicles have surged in popularity.
Almost 50,000 electric or hybrid cars have been sold in Britain this year and one in every 30 cars sold is powered by electricity.
The rising demand has led green power company Ecotricity, which runs the charging network Electric Highway, to introduce fees for using charge points.

Electric car users will be charged £6 for 30 minutes of electricity at any of the company's 300 power points, reports The Times.
The fee has angered owners of hybrid vehicles who say it will cost them £1 to travel only five miles on their batteries.
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End to free charging for electric car users | Daily Mail Online

Electric cars are far from a slam dunk in American, and the solar business is a complete disaster. I did not know till recently that Tesla cars are actually pretty poorly built, and that basic work is sometimes not done cause they cant be bothered...they are into "Shock and awe".

No wonder bossman seems to be stressing out.

The gig might be about up by the looks of it.
 
eohrnberger said:
I can only imagine the vast legal expenses and potential law suite judgements that are going to be incurred by the most recent automated driver collisions.
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Can't be anymore expensive than thousands upon thousands of yearly human driver collisions.
 
Kushinator said:
Can't be anymore expensive than thousands upon thousands of yearly human driver collisions.
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Interesting thought. Probably right. But in the case of the human driver collisions isn't the cost spread over a large population, where as automate crashes and injuries would be concentrated on the vehicle OEM. Concentrating it causes more costs and impact to fewer legal entities.
 
eohrnberger said:
Interesting thought. Probably right. But in the case of the human driver collisions isn't the cost spread over a large population, where as automate crashes and injuries would be concentrated on the vehicle OEM. Concentrating it causes more costs and impact to fewer legal entities.
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I am fairly positive they have their liability contingencies in place, such that, even if a high end estimate of autonomous driving failures materialize, it won't amount to much.

On the basis of damage inflicted per mile driven, current test models exponentially outperform their human counterparts in every way.
 
Kushinator said:
I am fairly positive they have their liability contingencies in place, such that, even if a high end estimate of autonomous driving failures materialize, it won't amount to much.
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Yeah, that would make sense, and would be the smart thing to do. No one ever said that the Tesla guys aren't that.

Kushinator said:
On the basis of damage inflicted per mile driven, current test models exponentially outperform their human counterparts in every way.
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That may very well be the case, but I really do like to drive myself. I hope in the future that I'll still have the option to do so.
 
eohrnberger said:
That may very well be the case, but I really do like to drive myself. I hope in the future that I'll still have the option to do so.
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I would hope you still have that option as well. I personally don't get as much joy out of driving as i used to. Traveling 3-4 times per year to random cities across the country has taken the fun out of it. Also, Uber is just so damn convenient in large cities.
 
Kushinator said:
I would hope you still have that option as well. I personally don't get as much joy out of driving as i used to. Traveling 3-4 times per year to random cities across the country has taken the fun out of it. Also, Uber is just so damn convenient in large cities.
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I can see that.

But I figure that everyone should be able to make their choice on that. I can see on occasions where I'd just as soon not drive like on long highway drives, and I have to admit, automated driving would be a nice option.
 
Tesla has some major problems right now. People are simply ignoring them over hype.

1. Infrastructure. They simply do not have the infrastructure in place to produce the cars they have sold.
2. Maintenance. Not sure if they are still doing it but they weren't fixing individual parts they were replacing entire
chassis' with new ones.
3. Expensive: even their model 3 is going to run in the 40k range. you might get a base model for 35k with 0 options on it.
4. Charging time. The only thing going for it right now is distance. 200-250 miles per charge. it still can take up to an hour
to get a 80% charge on it.

that is a lot of time waiting around if you are on a trip.

Their gigafactory isn't supposed to startup for another year or so.
Last year they only produced 50k cars and expect by the 2nd half of next
year to produce 200k
 
ludin said:
Tesla has some major problems right now. People are simply ignoring them over hype.

1. Infrastructure. They simply do not have the infrastructure in place to produce the cars they have sold.
2. Maintenance. Not sure if they are still doing it but they weren't fixing individual parts they were replacing entire
chassis' with new ones.
3. Expensive: even their model 3 is going to run in the 40k range. you might get a base model for 35k with 0 options on it.
4. Charging time. The only thing going for it right now is distance. 200-250 miles per charge. it still can take up to an hour
to get a 80% charge on it.

that is a lot of time waiting around if you are on a trip.

Their gigafactory isn't supposed to startup for another year or so.
Last year they only produced 50k cars and expect by the 2nd half of next
year to produce 200k
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You have to add that the cars made so far have been of low quality manufacture, and the resulting headaches/expenses. That is never going to fly if they ever become more than a novelty item.
 
Elon Musk has very grandiose dreams and my hats off to him, but the main problem is the technology. Batteries are just nowhere near as efficient as they should be for any of his ideas to work properly. Until the tech is improved it will be an uphill battle for electric cars.
 
PoS said:
Elon Musk has very grandiose dreams and my hats off to him, but the main problem is the technology. Batteries are just nowhere near as efficient as they should be for any of his ideas to work properly. Until the tech is improved it will be an uphill battle for electric cars.
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Remember when back about 8 years ago the rage was the concept winning by taking technology leaps? Musk heard that clarion call. The Pentagon bought it too. We have a $12+ billion aircraft carrier sitting in the water right now that does not work because by the time they built it the tech was not ready to do the job. The planes that are supposed to go in it have the same problem. At base what this is is a failure to properly appreciate risk, and the difficulty of obtaining progress. Through smarts and a lot of hard work a lot of our ancestors were able to make progress, but a lot of these idiots we live with now are so delusional that they think it happens on its own, all the time.

Ya cant fix stupid, and we have some.
 
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PoS said:
Elon Musk has very grandiose dreams and my hats off to him, but the main problem is the technology. Batteries are just nowhere near as efficient as they should be for any of his ideas to work properly. Until the tech is improved it will be an uphill battle for electric cars.
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I love Tesla cars and Space X seems very cool. And I used to think Musk was cool.

But his companies would not exist without taxpayer loans and stock market hype...plus, the stock market/luxury sales booms are being mega-fuelled by low interest rates and a staggering amount of Fed money 'QE's'. Which does not impress me at all.

And Tesla has in 13(?) years of operation posted just 1(!) quarterly profit...ONLY ONE.

And his cars are strictly for the wealthy/upper middle classes.

I am sick of people being gaga about this company and this guy when any decently bright guy can make a cool but expensive product and sell it at a loss...that takes little skill. Especially if the government gives you a low interest loan of over $400 million dollars.

No matter what anyone says...until Tesla turns regular profits, the company does not impress me any longer.

If he had started it without government loans...I would give him more leeway.

But frankly, he is starting to sound to me like a bit of a slick talker. Sure, me makes cool things. But few can afford them and he has lost billions selling them.
 
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DA60 said:
I love Tesla cars and Space X seems very cool. And I uses to think Musk was cool.

But his companies would not exist without taxpayer loans and stock market hype...plus, the stock market/luxury items are being mega-fuelled by low interest rates and a staggering amount of Fed money 'QE's'. Which does not impress me at all.

And Tesla has in 13(?) years of operation posted just 1(!) quarterly profit...ONLY ONE.

And his cars are strictly for the wealthy/upper middle classes.

I am sick of people being gaga about this company and this guy when any decently bright guy can make a cool but expensive product and sell it at a loss...that takes little skill. Especially if the government gives you a low interest loan of over $400 million dollars.

No matter what anyone says...until Tesla turns regular profits, the company does not impress me any longer.

If he had started it without government loans...I would give him more leeway.

But frankly, he is starting to sound to me like a bit of a slick talker. Sure, me makes cool things. But few can afford them and he has lost billions selling them.
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Great point, Musk is great at harvesting money from government, but as to delivering value to the customer or building great companies so far he has an incomplete. The signs look pretty bad that he ever will.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
Great point, Musk is great at harvesting money from government, but as to delivering value to the customer or building great companies so far he has an incomplete. The signs look pretty bad that he ever will.
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Agreed.

If their stock price had not skyrocketed on all the hype...Tesla would probably already be out of business.
 
DA60 said:
Agreed.

If their stock price had not skyrocketed on all the hype...Tesla would probably already be out of business.
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People are pretty stupid....Nintendo stock was way up till investors figured out that they did a really crap agreement with the Pokemon Go people, and will see very little money from its success. Always chasing the bright shiny things with no understanding of value is what too many do.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
People are pretty stupid....Nintendo stock was way up till investors figured out that they did a really crap agreement with the Pokemon Go people, and will see very little money from its success. Always chasing the bright shiny things with no understanding of value is what too many do.
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Yeah, I saw that about Nintendo. All that massive hype over Pokemon Go and Nintendo is getting squat from it...weird.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
You have to add that the cars made so far have been of low quality manufacture, and the resulting headaches/expenses. That is never going to fly if they ever become more than a novelty item.
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Space x seems to be doing better.
 
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