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How do you feel being about 7tril $ in debt to the Federal Reserve?

The fate of the Federal Reserve?

  • Yes, I want it nationalized and the debt removed!

    Votes: 1 25.0%

  • No, things are fine as they are now

    Votes: 1 25.0%

  • I don't like how things are now but I don't want them to change

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • I have no opinion/Other opinion (comment)

    Votes: 2 50.0%
  • Total voters
    4
  • Poll closed .
Rainman05

Rainman05

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So, how are americans are currently 16tril $ in debt. 102% of the GDP.

Federal Reserve - 6.5tril $
------
Citigroup - $2.513 trillion
Morgan Stanley - $2.041 trillion
Merrill Lynch - $1.949 trillion
Bank of America - $1.344 trillion
Barclays PLC - $868 billion
Bear Sterns - $853 billion
Goldman Sachs - $814 billion
Royal Bank of Scotland - $541 billion
JP Morgan Chase - $391 billion
Deutsche Bank - $354 billion
UBS - $287 billion
Credit Suisse - $262 billion
Lehman Brothers - $183 billion
Bank of Scotland - $181 billion
BNP Paribas - $175 billion
Wells Fargo - $159 billion
Dexia - $159 billion
Wachovia - $142 billion
Dresdner Bank - $135 billion
Societe Generale - $124 billion



Biggest Holders of US Government Debt - Yahoo! Finance

10 Things That Every American Should Know About The Federal Reserve

The figure of 6.5tril comes from CNBC article posted in the yahoo link and the other figures come from the other link I posted. I DO NOT ACCOUNT FOR THE ACCURACY OF THE FIGURES IN THE OTHER LINK. As they are not from an official source.

What I can confirm is the following. Out of the 16tril $, the foreign debt accounts for about 3tril$... at max, 3.5tril$ out of which you have:

China - 1.3tril $
Japan - 1tril $
UK - 0.5tril $
and the rest by France, Germany, South Korea and other countries.

So that means that out of the 16tril dollars, 12.5 tril are owed by the banks from which the biggest bank who owes the largest share is the Federal Reserve -> 6.5tril $.
The rest of the 6tril dollars can indeed verify part of the list... with JP Morgan, Citigroup, Bank of America, Lehman Brothers, Goldman Sachs and other such banks who are intimate friends with the Federal Reserve having large chunks of that 6tril dollar pie.

So my question is this. How do you, as americans, feel now that you know that ~40% of your debt is owed to the Federal Reserve. Would you not want the Federal Reserve to be nationalized and the debt removed? Because I have news for you, you can do that. Most EU countries can't anymore. Most EU countries are no longer in charge of their currency in the same way you guys aren't. But countries like the UK, Hungary, Romania and others who are not part of the eurozone and still maintain their currencies are different.

Think of the UK as a person who is able to magically produce money whenever he wants. It's his money. With the USA, the USA as man cannot produce his own money magically in his hand. Rather, he gave the authority for another person to magically produce that money... and said person LOANS at an interest the money to the USA person for him to spend on beer & burgers. And that accounts for 1/3 of your debt.

Would you not want the Federal Reserve to be nationalized?
 
Rainman05 said:
So, how are americans are currently 16tril $ in debt. 102% of the GDP.

Federal Reserve - 6.5tril $
------
Citigroup - $2.513 trillion
Morgan Stanley - $2.041 trillion
Merrill Lynch - $1.949 trillion
Bank of America - $1.344 trillion
Barclays PLC - $868 billion
Bear Sterns - $853 billion
Goldman Sachs - $814 billion
Royal Bank of Scotland - $541 billion
JP Morgan Chase - $391 billion
Deutsche Bank - $354 billion
UBS - $287 billion
Credit Suisse - $262 billion
Lehman Brothers - $183 billion
Bank of Scotland - $181 billion
BNP Paribas - $175 billion
Wells Fargo - $159 billion
Dexia - $159 billion
Wachovia - $142 billion
Dresdner Bank - $135 billion
Societe Generale - $124 billion



Biggest Holders of US Government Debt - Yahoo! Finance

10 Things That Every American Should Know About The Federal Reserve

The figure of 6.5tril comes from CNBC article posted in the yahoo link and the other figures come from the other link I posted. I DO NOT ACCOUNT FOR THE ACCURACY OF THE FIGURES IN THE OTHER LINK. As they are not from an official source.

What I can confirm is the following. Out of the 16tril $, the foreign debt accounts for about 3tril$... at max, 3.5tril$ out of which you have:

China - 1.3tril $
Japan - 1tril $
UK - 0.5tril $
and the rest by France, Germany, South Korea and other countries.

So that means that out of the 16tril dollars, 12.5 tril are owed by the banks from which the biggest bank who owes the largest share is the Federal Reserve -> 6.5tril $.
The rest of the 6tril dollars can indeed verify part of the list... with JP Morgan, Citigroup, Bank of America, Lehman Brothers, Goldman Sachs and other such banks who are intimate friends with the Federal Reserve having large chunks of that 6tril dollar pie.

So my question is this. How do you, as americans, feel now that you know that ~40% of your debt is owed to the Federal Reserve. Would you not want the Federal Reserve to be nationalized and the debt removed? Because I have news for you, you can do that. Most EU countries can't anymore. Most EU countries are no longer in charge of their currency in the same way you guys aren't. But countries like the UK, Hungary, Romania and others who are not part of the eurozone and still maintain their currencies are different.

Think of the UK as a person who is able to magically produce money whenever he wants. It's his money. With the USA, the USA as man cannot produce his own money magically in his hand. Rather, he gave the authority for another person to magically produce that money... and said person LOANS at an interest the money to the USA person for him to spend on beer & burgers. And that accounts for 1/3 of your debt.

Would you not want the Federal Reserve to be nationalized?
Click to expand...

I'm not sure what you mean by "nationalized". The fed is already a government entity, thus in a sense it is already nationalized. If there was any point in doing so, the debt owed to the fed could be instantly foregiven, but there is no point in that, it might actually be against our best interests. Debt to the fed is the mechanism that the treasury has to essentially create more money as our economy requires more money. The advantage to having this debt to the fed, over just allowing the treasury to create money, is that if we were to have a high inflation rate due to too much money, then the fed could stop purchasing treasury and bank securities, thus stopping the growth of our money supply, and as old securities mature, the fed could disappear the money recieved for the securities, just exactly the same way that they appeared the money to begin with. Debt to the fed is a mechanism to control inflation (increase it or decrease it).
 
Can't be CEO of Goldman Sachs, as Bush's Secretary of Treasury was, and NOT know the feds gave out these loans. Bush's bailout was about spending money for the rich at taxpayer expense, IMHO.
 
Well like I keep saying, most of this isn't really debt. The federal reserve is like another bank, with tsy's as banks and countries savings accounts.

What should be done is putting the treasury and the central bank into the control of the same people. That way you don't have to issue tsy's at all.

That way banks and other countries wouldn't purchase the tsy's and instead invest in other assets.
 
Comment: The fed is an unconstitutional creation. Until the congress takes up that issue, and addresses that problem, and transparancy is improved, then this debt will continue to be a problem...

Truth is congress has given up it's monetary over site to the Fed. When congress created the Fed, it had no constitutional authority to do so. ONLY CONGRESS CAN COIN MONEY. Any powers not grated to the government in the Constitution are inherently denied to Congress.

I would like less market manipulation, less currency manipulation, and less interest rate manipulation. We need more transparancy. For starters publish the reports from the the Presidents Working Group on Financial Markets, and to bring back M3 stats.
 
Missed AB said:
Comment: The fed is an unconstitutional creation. Until the congress takes up that issue, and addresses that problem, and transparancy is improved, then this debt will continue to be a problem...
Click to expand...
An act of congress is constitutional unless the supreme court says it isn't. So it is constitutional by the federal reserve act.
 
Missed AB said:
Truth is congress has given up it's monetary over site to the Fed. When congress created the Fed, it had no constitutional authority to do so. ONLY CONGRESS CAN COIN MONEY. Any powers not grated to the government in the Constitution are inherently denied to Congress.
Click to expand...
The congress had the power to coin money, but it was never written that the power to coin money couldn't be delegated to another body of government, which is what happened. That is what makes the constitution great, the ability to change it.
 
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