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Thread: Two Important Announcements from the President

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    Two Important Announcements from the President

    1) As president, I have made an executive decision that, in order to help ensure that this conference maintains a sustainable level of activity, we should allow any DP poster who wishes to join the convention to do so by contacting the president or the Sec'y and requesting to be made a member.

    As a result of that decision, I'd like everyone to welcome our newest member, Joko104

    2) It has just come to my attention that this forum is operating under the rules that are different from the rest of DP.

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/dp-con...ouncement.html (DP Constitutional Convention announcement)

    From this point forward, the moderation team will be treating the Constitutional Convention as we would any other thread in the game forum. It is up to you to make this into something productive, and we will not police your partisan disagreements. The success or failure of this experiment is completely on you.


    If by some chance we are required to take a moderation action to address an especially serious global offense, you will be banned from this subforum.
    As it's been explained to me, this means that the mods will not infract anyone for anything that is worth less than 10 point. In other words, things like baiting, flaming, and trolling are allowed in this forum. Since I have no interest in moderating a forum which allows such behavior, I am resigning my position as president and handing the presidency to the only other officer the convention has - Vasudatorrent. My decision becomes effective as soon as Vasudatorrent accepts his new position.
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    Re: Two Important Announcements from the President

    We should perhaps all consider what we need here going forward, these changes are not exactly what I was hoping for either.
    "Democracy without respect for individual rights sucks. It's just ganging up against the weird kid, and I'm always the weird kid." - Penn Jillette.

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    Re: Two Important Announcements from the President

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    1) As president, I have made an executive decision that, in order to help ensure that this conference maintains a sustainable level of activity, we should allow any DP poster who wishes to join the convention to do so by contacting the president or the Sec'y and requesting to be made a member.

    As a result of that decision, I'd like everyone to welcome our newest member, Joko104

    2) It has just come to my attention that this forum is operating under the rules that are different from the rest of DP.

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/dp-con...ouncement.html (DP Constitutional Convention announcement)



    As it's been explained to me, this means that the mods will not infract anyone for anything that is worth less than 10 point. In other words, things like baiting, flaming, and trolling are allowed in this forum. Since I have no interest in moderating a forum which allows such behavior, I am resigning my position as president and handing the presidency to the only other officer the convention has - Vasudatorrent. My decision becomes effective as soon as Vasudatorrent accepts his new position.
    Do you necessarily need to moderate it? Surely we can formulate some reasonably parliamentary rules and put in place an enforcement mechanism that doesn't require one person to play cop.
    Don't be a grammar nazi - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations, Book 1 #7

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    Re: Two Important Announcements from the President

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    1) As president, I have made an executive decision that, in order to help ensure that this conference maintains a sustainable level of activity, we should allow any DP poster who wishes to join the convention to do so by contacting the president or the Sec'y and requesting to be made a member.

    As a result of that decision, I'd like everyone to welcome our newest member, Joko104

    2) It has just come to my attention that this forum is operating under the rules that are different from the rest of DP.

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/dp-con...ouncement.html (DP Constitutional Convention announcement)



    As it's been explained to me, this means that the mods will not infract anyone for anything that is worth less than 10 point. In other words, things like baiting, flaming, and trolling are allowed in this forum. Since I have no interest in moderating a forum which allows such behavior, I am resigning my position as president and handing the presidency to the only other officer the convention has - Vasudatorrent. My decision becomes effective as soon as Vasudatorrent accepts his new position.
    No! No! No! Don't quit!

    Really, DO NOT QUIT. This can be worked out with the mods. I was thread banned by a mod some time back for a harsh message, meaning it was not an anything goes. There are different opinions about this Convention to different mods. You may be communicating with the wrong one. Also, opening up the Convention likely will change that view. This is NOT a basement board so the rules do apply the same as other boards.

    I suspect that you over read the message that you linked to. At least confirm your opinion is accurate that the rules of other threads will not be enforced here. The Convention topics certainly will get hot, but I don't think that means the mods will allow it to be a free for all devoid of the rules.

    The way I read the message is that if anyone is really getting out of line - or whining to mods too much - they'll just remove the person from the Convention, rather than deal with a lot of complaints. In short, they may be imposing harsher enforcement. The message actually may more have been empowering you than dis-empowering you. I read the message that the mods aren't going to mess around with troublemakers, rather they will just remove the person summarily by a ban from the board and be done with it.

    Please do some communications with the mods to make certain you understand that message (if you haven't already). You've been great for the Convention and this would be a real lose. Maybe wait to see how that notice is actually implemented and applied?

    And thank you.
    Last edited by joko104; 12-19-14 at 01:09 PM.

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    Re: Two Important Announcements from the President

    I think we haven't done too bad, some discussions get passionate, but flaming and trolling don't seem to be happening
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    Re: Two Important Announcements from the President

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius46 View Post
    Do you necessarily need to moderate it? Surely we can formulate some reasonably parliamentary rules and put in place an enforcement mechanism that doesn't require one person to play cop.
    The solution seems simple at least to pursue. Ask if the moderation staff would agree to designate a contact moderator for the president of the Convention. If the other officer (or one of the other officers if there is a VP) agrees, the president of the Convention would contact that moderator asking that person be banned from this sub-forum. The Convention officers could give warnings first when appropriate.

    I can understand the moderators not sorting thru piles of messages being reported. Rather, just establish that its fine for moderators to ignore them (other than serious infractions such as porn, posting PMs etc) - and that moderators won't do anything - unless asked by the President - and the only thing done is then banning the person from this sub-forum - and problem solved. No eating up moderators time. Very simplistic requiring no time.

    All it would take is ONE moderator to agree to this. And all that moderator would be doing is RARE sub-forum banning, rather than thread bans, warnings, infractions and infraction appeals and all that.

    Has anyone asked the mods if that would be acceptable? A designated mod who would sub-forum ban upon request of the President - and all the rest of complaints and reports are ignored by all moderators including that one?

    Only ONE enforcement - sub-forum banning - and only on the agreement (or majority) of the officers and the communicated only by the President. I don't think it would take more than a couple sub-forum bans to get the message across to people. It also would eliminate any claims of moderators who involve trying to tilt the Convention as all discipline - which is absolute - came from the officers.

    Personally, that would seem superior as it would keep control essentially with the Convention staff and keep moderators from overseeing the Convention. Post decent messages and there is no problem. Post trolling, baiting and flaming messages? And get permanently thrown out of the Convention and this sub-forum.
    Last edited by joko104; 12-19-14 at 01:20 PM.

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    Re: Two Important Announcements from the President

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius46 View Post
    Do you necessarily need to moderate it? Surely we can formulate some reasonably parliamentary rules and put in place an enforcement mechanism that doesn't require one person to play cop.
    1) We can vote for whatever rules and enforcement mechanisms we want to, but that doesn't stop anyone from doing what they want to. As long as they are not engaged in a "serious global offense", any poster (including non-members) are free to do whatever they want, includin derailing threads

    2) I want to be clear about what I mean by moderating this forum. I do not mean being a DP mod and handing out infractions. I mean leading and directing the discussions in a way that helps make them productive. If that's not what the President does, then what is the Presidents' job? To make rules (that anyone can ignore at will) unilaterally?

    That's not what I signed up to do.

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    Please do some communications with the mods to make certain you understand that message (if you haven't already). You've been great for the Convention and this would be a real lose. Maybe wait to see how that notice is actually implemented and applied?


    And thank you.
    I have been in contact with the mods and they have made it clear. Only "serious global offenses" will be dealt with, and they will result in forum bans. Anything less than a "serious global offense" and they will take no action.

    When I accepted the position, I was under the impression that if the rules about things like baiting, disrupting, etc were in place, we had a chance of elevating the discussion and making this productive. Since that assumption has now proven to be untrue, I don't see that happening.

    But I thank you for your kind words.
    Last edited by sangha; 12-19-14 at 01:25 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
    I don't have any issue with any investigation.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: Two Important Announcements from the President

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    1) We can vote for whatever rules and enforcement mechanisms we want to, but that doesn't stop anyone from doing what they want to. As long as they are not engaged in a "serious global offense", any poster (including non-members) are free to do whatever they want, includin derailing threads

    2) I want to be clear about what I mean by moderating this forum. I do not mean being a DP mod and handing out infractions. I mean leading and directing the discussions in a way that helps make them productive. If that's not what the President does, then what is the Presidents' job? To make rules (that anyone can ignore at will) unilaterally?

    That's not what I signed up to do.
    Ask mods if any of them would go along with there being NO enforce except 1.) serious global rules like Helix said and 2.) ban someone from this sub-forum IF this requested by the Convention staff (ie Prez upon agreement of at least one of the other 2 officers)? The mod wouldn't even have to review the messages and a sticky could be posted warning of this.

    The Convention could establish rules by which a person is removed or not - as guidance to the Convention leadership (elected leadership).

    This would take all the bother off the moderators and keep enforcement entirely with the Convention.
    Last edited by joko104; 12-19-14 at 01:44 PM.

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    Re: Two Important Announcements from the President

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    1) As president, I have made an executive decision that, in order to help ensure that this conference maintains a sustainable level of activity, we should allow any DP poster who wishes to join the convention to do so by contacting the president or the Sec'y and requesting to be made a member.

    As a result of that decision, I'd like everyone to welcome our newest member, Joko104

    2) It has just come to my attention that this forum is operating under the rules that are different from the rest of DP.

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/dp-con...ouncement.html (DP Constitutional Convention announcement)



    As it's been explained to me, this means that the mods will not infract anyone for anything that is worth less than 10 point. In other words, things like baiting, flaming, and trolling are allowed in this forum. Since I have no interest in moderating a forum which allows such behavior, I am resigning my position as president and handing the presidency to the only other officer the convention has - Vasudatorrent. My decision becomes effective as soon as Vasudatorrent accepts his new position.
    What do you think is going wrong?

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    Re: Two Important Announcements from the President

    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    What do you think is going wrong?
    Not naming anyone, very short list of those participating are so aggressive and trollish that it drives others off and pushes it towards being like the basement. If there is nothing Convention officers can do and if moderators won't do anything, the future looks bleak. Unmoderated forums - despite cries for unlimited free speech - quickly just become name-calling flame fests. That's likely the concern. Sangha has always made in clear he wants the Convention to be conducted in an orderly and respectful manner regardless of strong feelings on issues.

    Most who are participating are excellent and sincere. It only take a few to spoil it for everyone.

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