- Joined
- Jul 1, 2011
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- Lower Hudson Valley, NY
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First thing, I'd like to thank everyone who has participated in this convention. IMO, the fact that we have 60 people voting bodes well for this experiment.
I'd also like to thank PirateMk1, Paleocon and our new Secretary, vasudatorrent for all of the time and hard work they've put into this effort so far.
I suspect that the biggest concern all of us have is the possibility that this convention will either devolve into just another of DP's many shouting matches, or die from lack of interest. IMO, the fact that 82 posters have joined the effort demonstrates that there is no lack of interest and as President, it is my goal to ensure that this interest does not dwindle due to a lack of progress.
And so, I am eager to get to work, but that raises the question of "Where do we start?" There have been a number of suggestions and several have stated their preference, but since this convention operates on consensus and democratic principles, I will be starting a poll listing the suggestions that have been made and we will all vote. Whichever choice gets the most votes will be our first priority, and the 2nd most popular choice will be our 2nd priority...rinse and repeat.
I'd like to note that just because one option has received the most votes, that does not mean we can not work on or discuss any of the other options. It merely means that we, as a group, have agreed that the first priority is to put our main focus on that option and by "main focus" I do not mean "single minded". We can multi-task. However, I am concerned about the possibility of the conference dividing its' time into too many issues at once, so I would like to ask (this is a request, not a command) that we limit ourselves to the #1 priority for the first 7 days. I think that will give us enough time to get enough of a handle of where we're going with that issue after which, it should not be disruptive or chaotic to begin discussing and dealing with the 2nd priority
Finally, I would like to present my thoughts about the nature of what we are setting out to do, in the hopes that it will contribute to making this a productive effort. Let me know what you think about it
What we are trying to do here is very different from what we usually do here at Debate Politics (ie "debate"). In a debate, the object is to "win" by presenting the strongest arguments and undercutting your opponents arguments, preferably including some wit in the process. Now I have nothing against wit but in this convention, merely presenting strong arguments or undercutting the arguments of others is not how "winning" is defined, no matter how witty one is. Winning means "offering a motion that wins a majority (or possibly super-majority) of the vote". If your motion doesn't get passed, all you have accomplished is merely what we do here every day - you've engaged in a debate and said your piece.
We have a different goal here than the goal we have in other threads, and different objectives require different tactics. Telling another member of the convention that their idea is "stupid" or that they've been brainwashed by FoxNews, MSNBC, etc will not win any votes for your motion. If your motion is unable to get enough votes, the normal mode of discourse for DP is unlikely to get a member who disagrees with you to support and vote for your motion, but compromise might work.
If your motion is unable to get enough votes, ask others what their concerns are and then consider if your motion might be altered in a manner that would address their concerns without undoing the good you think your motion would achieve. It may require you to accept less than what you consider optimal, but this is a political exercise and it requires consensus. As rightous as your position may be, it is worthless if it can't be put into the constitution and that won't happen unless it passes in a vote.
In addition to making it more likely that your motion will pass, I think it will also help us maintain a productive tone in the convention. We have a choice in front of us - we can engage in the same old back and forth we've seen in all the other threads, or we can exercise some restraint and work together to produce a constitution that will be supported by the consensus of this convention. In the end, it is up to all of us to make that happen. I believe we all do want that to happen, so I ask that you all, at the very least, consider what I've just said
And let me know what you think about this idea of mine or any other idea you think might contribute to a productive convention. I'd like this thread to be an open discussion about what direction we should take, how to promote a productive "environment" and any concerns you may have about the direction the convention has taken so far. Once the members have had a chance to make their opinions and concerns known, we can begin to set an agenda and start working.
Thank you all.
I'd also like to thank PirateMk1, Paleocon and our new Secretary, vasudatorrent for all of the time and hard work they've put into this effort so far.
I suspect that the biggest concern all of us have is the possibility that this convention will either devolve into just another of DP's many shouting matches, or die from lack of interest. IMO, the fact that 82 posters have joined the effort demonstrates that there is no lack of interest and as President, it is my goal to ensure that this interest does not dwindle due to a lack of progress.
And so, I am eager to get to work, but that raises the question of "Where do we start?" There have been a number of suggestions and several have stated their preference, but since this convention operates on consensus and democratic principles, I will be starting a poll listing the suggestions that have been made and we will all vote. Whichever choice gets the most votes will be our first priority, and the 2nd most popular choice will be our 2nd priority...rinse and repeat.
I'd like to note that just because one option has received the most votes, that does not mean we can not work on or discuss any of the other options. It merely means that we, as a group, have agreed that the first priority is to put our main focus on that option and by "main focus" I do not mean "single minded". We can multi-task. However, I am concerned about the possibility of the conference dividing its' time into too many issues at once, so I would like to ask (this is a request, not a command) that we limit ourselves to the #1 priority for the first 7 days. I think that will give us enough time to get enough of a handle of where we're going with that issue after which, it should not be disruptive or chaotic to begin discussing and dealing with the 2nd priority
Finally, I would like to present my thoughts about the nature of what we are setting out to do, in the hopes that it will contribute to making this a productive effort. Let me know what you think about it
What we are trying to do here is very different from what we usually do here at Debate Politics (ie "debate"). In a debate, the object is to "win" by presenting the strongest arguments and undercutting your opponents arguments, preferably including some wit in the process. Now I have nothing against wit but in this convention, merely presenting strong arguments or undercutting the arguments of others is not how "winning" is defined, no matter how witty one is. Winning means "offering a motion that wins a majority (or possibly super-majority) of the vote". If your motion doesn't get passed, all you have accomplished is merely what we do here every day - you've engaged in a debate and said your piece.
We have a different goal here than the goal we have in other threads, and different objectives require different tactics. Telling another member of the convention that their idea is "stupid" or that they've been brainwashed by FoxNews, MSNBC, etc will not win any votes for your motion. If your motion is unable to get enough votes, the normal mode of discourse for DP is unlikely to get a member who disagrees with you to support and vote for your motion, but compromise might work.
If your motion is unable to get enough votes, ask others what their concerns are and then consider if your motion might be altered in a manner that would address their concerns without undoing the good you think your motion would achieve. It may require you to accept less than what you consider optimal, but this is a political exercise and it requires consensus. As rightous as your position may be, it is worthless if it can't be put into the constitution and that won't happen unless it passes in a vote.
In addition to making it more likely that your motion will pass, I think it will also help us maintain a productive tone in the convention. We have a choice in front of us - we can engage in the same old back and forth we've seen in all the other threads, or we can exercise some restraint and work together to produce a constitution that will be supported by the consensus of this convention. In the end, it is up to all of us to make that happen. I believe we all do want that to happen, so I ask that you all, at the very least, consider what I've just said
And let me know what you think about this idea of mine or any other idea you think might contribute to a productive convention. I'd like this thread to be an open discussion about what direction we should take, how to promote a productive "environment" and any concerns you may have about the direction the convention has taken so far. Once the members have had a chance to make their opinions and concerns known, we can begin to set an agenda and start working.
Thank you all.
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