The Nice Guy Syndrome

Hello. Questions for the ladies on this board: have you ever met a "Nice Guy"? If so, how did you deal with him and more importantly, why did you feel the way you did towards him?

Questions for the guys: do you think you are, or used to be, a nice guy? And do you feel that being nice is truly a handicap or has it actually increased your chances at having a successful relationship?

I am a woman and I have not met too many nice guys. I did friendzone a few people but because I had so few friends to begin with, I cannot say with any degree of authority on this matter.

Let's share our thoughts.

Wan said:

Hello. Questions for the ladies on this board: have you ever met a "Nice Guy"? If so, how did you deal with him and more importantly, why did you feel the way you did towards him?

Questions for the guys: do you think you are, or used to be, a nice guy? And do you feel that being nice is truly a handicap or has it actually increased your chances at having a successful relationship?

I am a woman and I have not met too many nice guys. I did friendzone a few people but because I had so few friends to begin with, I cannot say with any degree of authority on this matter.

Let's share our thoughts.

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Beware of the niceness. Serial killers are nice at first. It's important to give a relationship a reasonable time to grow and know each other.

Sorry, I am a nice guy but, had to throw that out there.

I've only dated "nice guys" except for one mildly rude guy. There are nice guys and then there are TOO nice guys. Love the first -- can't stand the second one.

The nice guys I like are confident, chivalrous, not afraid to have a different opinion, honest, trustworthy, mature, loyal and decision makers.

The TOO nice guy is extremely clingy, wants me to make all of the decisions, is very insecure and usually easy to upset emotionally. There is not one thing sexy about a guy who is MORE emotional than I am and who can't make a decision. Ugh. Noooooo thank you.

Several years ago I encountered a super emotional guy. We exchanged photos, talked on the phone for a week or two and then met for a date. I knew from phone calls that I wasn't really all that interested, but I thought maybe in person it might be different. Nope. I still wasn't interested and I told him that later that evening. I was expecting a "Oh, that's a bummer. I had a great time, though!" But, no. The guy literally lost his damn mind. He said....paraphrasing.... "But I've shown your picture to all of my friends! We're perfect for each other!! Please reconsider! Please! We had such a connection --- we belong together! You're just scared of a relationship, aren't you? Please don't do this! Please!" Literally went on for 20 minutes or so. He was messaging me on Facebook and I was just staring at the screen in shock. Dude --- get a freakin' grip. We went on ONE date. Oy.

Wan said:

Do you think you are, or used to be, a nice guy? And do you feel that being nice is truly a handicap or has it actually increased your chances at having a successful relationship?

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• I'm told I'm sometimes nice, never nasty, and always principled, honest, fair, generous and trustworthy.
• I do not feel the general nature of my character and personality has handicapped my chances at a successful relationship. I base that on awareness that I demure from more social invitations/interactions than I accept and my invitations are more often accepted than declined.
• I don't know whether being nice is a handicap or boon to having successful relationships. I think it's more important to be principled, trusted, respected and return the same than is it to be perceived as nice. I think that if one exhibits the former three qualities, however nice one is will be nice enough.

At the end of the day, I think niceness, like all other character traits must exist in balance. Neither too much nor too little niceness is a good thing. Click on the image below and read the article there. If you find a man or woman of good character -- someone who has all the pictured traits and has neither too much nor too little of any -- don't let them out of your life. Welcome them as a friend or as lover, as befits things between you.

I would agree that there has to be a balance of traits, with "niceness" as only one of them.

But a little advice for the guys: when trying to guage how nice to be, you have to try to read the mood and personality of the person you are trying to impress. Different types of personalities like slightly different mixes of niceness with other characteristics. And even the same person may have have vastly different tastes and preferences one day to the next. What would be seen as so gallant and kind one day to one person may seem clingy and overdone to another person on another day.

Go figure.

People, especially the female half of them, tend to be pretty complicated. Those who can't figure them out can try their hand at something simpler first, like advanced multidimensional particle physics or something.

Wan said:

Hello. Questions for the ladies on this board: have you ever met a "Nice Guy"? If so, how did you deal with him and more importantly, why did you feel the way you did towards him?

Questions for the guys: do you think you are, or used to be, a nice guy? And do you feel that being nice is truly a handicap or has it actually increased your chances at having a successful relationship?

I am a woman and I have not met too many nice guys. I did friendzone a few people but because I had so few friends to begin with, I cannot say with any degree of authority on this matter.

Let's share our thoughts.

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Yes. I like girls, so I've rejected all guys in general, but I have had some of those "Nice Guy" types ask me out. All it does is make me cringe.

Wan said:

Hello. Questions for the ladies on this board: have you ever met a "Nice Guy"? If so, how did you deal with him and more importantly, why did you feel the way you did towards him?

Questions for the guys: do you think you are, or used to be, a nice guy? And do you feel that being nice is truly a handicap or has it actually increased your chances at having a successful relationship?

I am a woman and I have not met too many nice guys. I did friendzone a few people but because I had so few friends to begin with, I cannot say with any degree of authority on this matter.

Let's share our thoughts.

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Define "Nice Guy" please.

ataraxia said:

I would agree that there has to be a balance of traits, with "niceness" as only one of them.

But a little advice for the guys: when trying to guage how nice to be, you have to try to read the mood and personality of the person you are trying to impress. Different types of personalities like slightly different mixes of niceness with other characteristics. And even the same person may have have vastly different tastes and preferences one day to the next. What would be seen as so gallant and kind one day to one person may seem clingy and overdone to another person on another day.

Go figure.

People, especially the female half of them, tend to be pretty complicated. Those who can't figure them out can try their hand at something simpler first, like advanced multidimensional particle physics or something.

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My advice is to just be who you are and not try to gauge how nice to be. It'll either work or it won't. It's okay either way.

According to my ex-wife, I'm stubborn as hell and a pain in the ass. I'm also a nice guy, but don't let that fool you. I'm still stubborn and a pain in the ass. You don't get everything. If you did get everything, you'd have nothing to complain about, and then where would we be?

Winchester said:

My advice is to just be who you are and not try to gauge how nice to be. It'll either work or it won't. It's okay either way.

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Agreed. Don't try to be someone else. Don't be fake. I contend that most TOO nice guys are putting on a front to cover for something else (i.e. insecurity) which is why it's such a turn off.

Wan said:

Hello. Questions for the ladies on this board: have you ever met a "Nice Guy"? If so, how did you deal with him and more importantly, why did you feel the way you did towards him?

Questions for the guys: do you think you are, or used to be, a nice guy? And do you feel that being nice is truly a handicap or has it actually increased your chances at having a successful relationship?

I am a woman and I have not met too many nice guys. I did friendzone a few people but because I had so few friends to begin with, I cannot say with any degree of authority on this matter.

Let's share our thoughts.

Click to expand...

I am not a nice guy... I am nice and polite and all that but not a nice guy. I have a bit of a jerk streak in me... I am not a bad boy. I just don't really care for people so I give off a "eh, I can take it or leave it but you are not that interesting", attitude, which always seemed to attract nice girls. I always dated nice girls but I married a crazy one that was masked as a nice one so I made that mistake. I should have married my high school sweet heart... stupid Bodi... STUPID! LOL

Bodhisattva said:

I am not a nice guy... I am nice and polite and all that but not a nice guy. I have a bit of a jerk streak in me... I am not a bad boy. I just don't really care for people so I give off a "eh, I can take it or leave it but you are not that interesting", attitude, which always seemed to attract nice girls. I always dated nice girls but I married a crazy one that was masked as a nice one so I made that mistake. I should have married my high school sweet heart... stupid Bodi... STUPID! LOL

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Why does it seem like it is one and done with you?

I do not get that...women can be so much fun....

Wan said:

Hello. Questions for the ladies on this board: have you ever met a "Nice Guy"? If so, how did you deal with him and more importantly, why did you feel the way you did towards him?

Questions for the guys: do you think you are, or used to be, a nice guy? And do you feel that being nice is truly a handicap or has it actually increased your chances at having a successful relationship?

I am a woman and I have not met too many nice guys. I did friendzone a few people but because I had so few friends to begin with, I cannot say with any degree of authority on this matter.

Let's share our thoughts.

Click to expand...

Nice guy is the first step to the friend zone.
Let just clear that out of the way.

Women don't want a "nice guy" they want a man.
I use to be the "nice guy". it was basically the dumping ground for all the emotional issues then friend zoned.

I learned the lesson the hard way. So instead of being the nice guy i became a guy.
I was respectful and considerate but not the emotional dump for their problems.

Wan said:

I am a woman and I have not met too many nice guys. I did friendzone a few people but because I had so few friends, to begin with, I cannot say with any degree of authority on this matter.

Let's share our thoughts.

Click to expand...

The word nice is a subjective concept. It's kind of a stupid thing to discuss frankly.

I think what's more important is nice guy hatred. All too often I see women who have to attack nice guys and convince themselves that they're not actually nice at all because they can't admit they rejected a good person in favor of a less good one. Women want to convince themselves that he was only pretending to be nice in order to get laid. In reality, the guy was almost certainly in love and wanted to spend the rest of his life with you.

I implore women that if you're going to reject the nice guy that's fine, but don't attack him, pity him. Try and help him understand that while you do like nice guys, you also want a man who can stand up for himself. Help him understand that you want an equal not doormat that you can walk all over. Help him understand that being nice is great, but you want someone who is driven, successful, and passionate as much if not more so. By rejecting the nice guy, and simply attacking him to make yourself feel better you infuriate him. You risk turning an otherwise good man who needs to mature a little bit into a full blown misogynist.

Josie said:

I contend that most TOO nice guys are putting on a front to cover for something else (i.e. insecurity) which is why it's such a turn-off.

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Actually, it's generally the exact opposite. It is insecurity that causes so many women to reject nice guys. Because you are insecure yourself you don't believe you deserve the treatment you're receiving from the guy. You think he's treating you way too good. Putting you up on a pedestal you don't belong on, you assume he is weak because you believe yourself to be weak. You feel as though him looking up to someone as pathetic as yourself must mean he is incredibly pathetic. Either that or just manipulative.

In reality, most guys know that being nice is a terrible way to get laid, and you're better off being bold and brash. The nice guy is hoping to show you that he's interested in more than just sex by not making that his first priority. The most manipulative men you'll ever see are the ones who know full well that being bold and brash is a turn on. They try and dominate everything and are obsessed with being viewed as an alpha male. That is precisely what Trump is doing. That is why so many ****ty men love him, and why so many insecure women sadly voted for him.

Hawkeye10 said:

Why does it seem like it is one and done with you?

I do not get that...women can be so much fun....

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Not at all... maybe for a time in my twenties it was but I have had long term relationships. 6 years with my high school/ college girlfriend, then a year with another then my fun years then I got married for ten years. Now I am happily single and not dating.

MrWonka said:

Actually, it's generally the exact opposite. It is insecurity that causes so many women to reject nice guys. Because you are insecure yourself you don't believe you deserve the treatment you're receiving from the guy. You think he's treating you way too good. Putting you up on a pedestal you don't belong on, you assume he is weak because you believe yourself to be weak. You feel as though him looking up to someone as pathetic as yourself must mean he is incredibly pathetic. Either that or just manipulative.

In reality, most guys know that being nice is a terrible way to get laid, and you're better off being bold and brash. The nice guy is hoping to show you that he's interested in more than just sex by not making that his first priority. The most manipulative men you'll ever see are the ones who know full well that being bold and brash is a turn on. They try and dominate everything and are obsessed with being viewed as an alpha male. That is precisely what Trump is doing. That is why so many ****ty men love him, and why so many insecure women sadly voted for him.

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I'm just gonna throw this out there...you might be running into an issue where you're a little on the judgemental side. See, you're trying to explain to someone all the reasons you believe she thinks like she does. That kind of comes off as being overbearing. It's possible that "being overbearing" is one of those things a woman might perceive someone who presents as you do is "covering up".

A person can be many things and nice is just one of them. It's great if someone is nice but what are their other qualities?

I don't understand how the OP is categorizing things. It's not nice vs. not nice, it's about the entire package.

I've seen this question asked before, where men ask why the bad boys always get the dates. The answer is that it's not about your arbitrary definition of good or bad, it's what other people really think of you. You may think you're nice and you've decided that's why you can't get a date, when in reality the other person maybe finds you unattractive for other reasons, or it's just bad timing.

Lutherf said:

I'm just gonna throw this out there...you might be running into an issue where you're a little on the judgemental side. See, you're trying to explain to someone all the reasons you believe she thinks like she does. That kind of comes off as being overbearing. It's possible that "being overbearing" is one of those things a woman might perceive someone who presents as you do is "covering up".

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Yes, generally that's classified as mansplaining and I'm well aware of how it works and why you should generally be careful about it. In this case, however, she was the one who was trying to explain how men like this think, and she was the one being judgemental so I'm under no obligation to avoid that. On top of which I'm not attempting to intimidate or belittle her opinion just cause she's a woman, nor am I tried to get laid or get a date.

But also I have the psychology to back it up...

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/...ntimacy/201302/women-who-are-turned-nice-guys

MrWonka said:

Yes, generally that's classified as mansplaining and I'm well aware of how it works and why you should generally be careful about it. In this case, however, she was the one who was trying to explain how men like this think, and she was the one being judgemental so I'm under no obligation to avoid that. On top of which I'm not attempting to intimidate or belittle her opinion just cause she's a woman, nor am I tried to get laid or get a date.

But also I have the psychology to back it up...

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/...ntimacy/201302/women-who-are-turned-nice-guys

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Well then, far be it from me to argue with an expert.

MrWonka said:

Actually, it's generally the exact opposite. It is insecurity that causes so many women to reject nice guys. Because you are insecure yourself you don't believe you deserve the treatment you're receiving from the guy. You think he's treating you way too good. Putting you up on a pedestal you don't belong on, you assume he is weak because you believe yourself to be weak. You feel as though him looking up to someone as pathetic as yourself must mean he is incredibly pathetic. Either that or just manipulative.

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Completely disagree. I love nice guys -- I've only dated nice guys. I'd never be interested in anyone who isn't a nice guy. But there is a line between "nice guy" and "doormat". There are nice guys who aren't afraid to stand up for themselves or hold opposing opinions to their girl. There are nice guys who are confident, decision-makers and know how to compromise when there's a disagreement. Those aren't "TOO nice" guys.

TOO nice guys are doormats. They're puppy dogs. They will do anything and everything their girl says even if they disagree. They're afraid to stand up for themselves, afraid to voice a differing opinion and aren't good decision makers because they're constantly worried that, God forbid, their girl might disagree. They're insecure, therefore, they think they have to be a doormat in order to keep a relationship.

I'm not at all what you described. I deserve a great guy who treats me well, but I don't want a doormat who won't stand up for himself.

MrWonka said:

In reality, most guys know that being nice is a terrible way to get laid, and you're better off being bold and brash. The nice guy is hoping to show you that he's interested in more than just sex by not making that his first priority. The most manipulative men you'll ever see are the ones who know full well that being bold and brash is a turn on. They try and dominate everything and are obsessed with being viewed as an alpha male. That is precisely what Trump is doing. That is why so many ****ty men love him, and why so many insecure women sadly voted for him.

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I don't know why everything always has to go back to Trump and politics.

I don't find "bold and brash" a turn-on at all. I find sweet, romantic, funny and confident a turn-on.

Josie said:

Completely disagree. I love nice guys -- I've only dated nice guys. I'd never been interested in anyone who isn't a nice guy.

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I'm not referring specifically to you. I'm referring to the royal you.

Josie said:

But there is a line between "nice guy" and "doormat". There are nice guys who aren't afraid to stand up for themselves or hold opposing opinions to their girl. There are nice guys who are confident, decision-makers and know how to compromise when there's a disagreement. Those aren't "TOO nice" guys.

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Right, but you do understand that this is all subjective in relation to you? Your perception of who is a doormat that is too nice versus who is just the right amount is a sliding scale that is entirely relative to you.

For many men, it isn't a lack of confidence that keeps them from "standing up for themselves." It is a belief that they are strong enough to make some sacrifices to help make things easier for you. It's not fear or insecurity, it is if anything an abundance of security. They see it as having thick skin, and not letting trivial **** bother them. But if you disagree about what is trivial and what is not you see them as a doormat for not standing up for themselves. If you yourself have very thin skin, you're going to have a tendency to see more men as weak even though it's actually you that is weak.

Josie said:

TOO nice guys are doormats. They're puppy dogs. They will do anything and everything their girl says even if they disagree. They're afraid to stand up for themselves, afraid to voice a differing opinion and aren't good decision makers because they're constantly worried that, God forbid, their girl might disagree.

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Again, it's not that they're afraid that their girl might disagree. It's that in their minds it doesn't matter much to them. They're good either way so they see it as doing you a favor and going with what you want since both are found.

I remember a while back I went on a trip with this girl I was interested in. I kept letting her decide where we went and what restaurants we ate at. Too me it didn't matter. I knew I'd have fun either way, but after the trip was over she freaked out about it as if I was somehow weak and indecisive for not being able to choose. It had nothing to do with being able to choose, it just didn't matter to me so I thought I'd be nice and let her pick.

What I realized, later on, is that too her, choosing was hard. She was afraid to choose because she was worried she'd make a bad choice, and I would judge her negatively for it. She wanted me to choose so that she could judge me. Nowadays when I go on a date I always choose. Unless the girl I'm with stops me and indicates she doesn't like my choice I just keep making them. It's not that I got stronger or became less of a doormat, it's that I simply realized how insecure most women are and that many find it difficult to make decisions.

Josie said:

I don't know why everything always has to go back to Trump and politics.

I don't find "bold and brash" a turn-on at all. I find sweet, romantic, funny and confident a turn-on.

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Well, the sad reality is that this whole conversation really speaks to what is going on with the alt-right, the incels, the MRA, redpill, the PUA d-bags. It is an inability of these men to navigate this issue that drives them to the extremes of misogyny, and that is what Trump and the Republican party rely on for their most ardent supporters.

MrWonka said:

I'm not referring specifically to you. I'm referring to the royal you.

Right, but you do understand that this is all subjective in relation to you? Your perception of who is a doormat that is too nice versus who is just the right amount is a sliding scale that is entirely relative to you.

For many men, it isn't a lack of confidence that keeps them from "standing up for themselves." It is a belief that they are strong enough to make some sacrifices to help make things easier for you. It's not fear or insecurity, it is if anything an abundance of security. They see it as having thick skin, and not letting trivial **** bother them. But if you disagree about what is trivial and what is not you see them as a doormat for not standing up for themselves. If you yourself have very thin skin, you're going to have a tendency to see more men as weak even though it's actually you that is weak.

Again, it's not that they're afraid that their girl might disagree. It's that in their minds it doesn't matter much to them. They're good either way so they see it as doing you a favor and going with what you want since both are found.

I remember a while back I went on a trip with this girl I was interested in. I kept letting her decide where we went and what restaurants we ate at. Too me it didn't matter. I knew I'd have fun either way, but after the trip was over she freaked out about it as if I was somehow weak and indecisive for not being able to choose. It had nothing to do with being able to choose, it just didn't matter to me so I thought I'd be nice and let her pick.

What I realized, later on, is that too her, choosing was hard. She was afraid to choose because she was worried she'd make a bad choice, and I would judge her negatively for it. She wanted me to choose so that she could judge me. Nowadays when I go on a date I always choose. Unless the girl I'm with stops me and indicates she doesn't like my choice I just keep making them. It's not that I got stronger or became less of a doormat, it's that I simply realized how insecure most women are and that many find it difficult to make decisions.

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Of course everything is relative -- same for you.

I don't see "more men as weak". I see the weak men as weak. I don't know that "many men" are confident (as you said) or that many men are weak. I only know my experience with men and their personalities. I'm a pretty perceptive person. It's not difficult to decipher which men are confident and which are fragile once you've spent some time with them.

With women, I'm incredibly simple...WYSIWYG. I'm not out to angle anything because frankly, I probably wouldn't be very good at it.
I'm WYSIWYG, so I seek out women who are pretty much the same way, or who can be comfortable being that way.
And really, I've discovered...life's too short, so I am glad that I can be the way I am.

You know what's funny, this wonderful lady I married, she grew up in a fairly emotionally closed off family.
Her older sister married my older brother...that's how I met her, by the way, at their wedding.
Her sister also mentioned that it took some getting used to, being around a family like mine. We are emotionally open and demonstrative, the opposite of what she was used to. But she took to it very well, our family changed her somewhat, and the same thing happened with my wife.
She was used to being from an emotionally closed off family, and our loud and affectionate family changed her a bit as well.

I have to credit my mother for being the one who nurtured the both of them. They both really loved my mom so much.
She was indeed quite the character, in a word, amazing. It was like watching two flowers bloom in a desert...no water for so many years and then suddenly the rain comes and they opened up.

Josie said:

Of course everything is relative -- same for you.

I don't see "more men as weak". I see the weak men as weak. I don't know that "many men" are confident (as you said) or that many men are weak. I only know my experience with men and their personalities. I'm a pretty perceptive person. It's not difficult to decipher which men are confident and which are fragile once you've spent some time with them.

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Thing is, it's not really a one-dimensional issue, as I suspect you already realize.
I'm as thick as a brick on a lot of things which would wear down most men.
Thick skin, can't get me rattled.
But I do have one or two things to which I am indeed very vulnerable.

It was pretty difficult for me to learn to read emotional cues when I was younger.
I'm on the autism spectrum. (Aspie)
But I did finally learn, and once I did, it became very important to me.
You do realize, some WOMEN are "nice" when they don't need to be, or when they shouldn't be.
A lot of women are raised and trained to be nice, and to say that they're fine when they're really not.

And I guess that's my vulnerability, if I sense that something's off, you can bet it probably is, because learning how to sense that stuff was not an innate or instinctive thing with me, I had to learn it the way a craftsman learns a skill.