The Nice Guy Syndrome

ludin said:

Nice guy is the first step to the friend zone.
Let just clear that out of the way.

Women don't want a "nice guy" they want a man.
I use to be the "nice guy". it was basically the dumping ground for all the emotional issues then friend zoned.

I learned the lesson the hard way. So instead of being the nice guy i became a guy.
I was respectful and considerate but not the emotional dump for their problems.

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Or just find an "evolved" woman who lets her brain over her instincts of finding the alpha male.

I do find that some woman can be horrible judges of characters. They can't see a guy doing things and being nice just to sleep with them.

It is a bit ridiculous women continually going with the tough guy who ends up being a jerk, cheating on them and generally treating them like ****. And yet, they just keep going back to that

MrWonka said:

Well, the sad reality is that this whole conversation really speaks to what is going on with the alt-right, the incels, the MRA, redpill, the PUA d-bags. It is an inability of these men to navigate this issue that drives them to the extremes of misogyny, and that is what Trump and the Republican party rely on for their most ardent supporters.

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Love it, I still have to laugh when reading about these kinds of guys.
Spoiled little brats who need to grow up. Women are jolly well okay for the most part, they're human beings, so enjoy them with all their faults just as they enjoy you with all of yours, as the saying goes.
It's when you find the girl who can put up with all your **** and you can put up with theirs that you realize that you've got something special.
Your idiosyncracies mesh nicely with theirs, your weirdness with theirs, your goody spots with theirs.

By the way, the restaurant thing, you know...women and food? LOL...my wife is one of those "super-tasters".
She actually HAS more taste buds than most people. She is super-picky and it is difficult to really impress her with foods.
So, cooking for her, or picking the right place: NIGHTMARE!!

No, not really, she's actually pretty sweet about it but I know when she is underwhelmed.
D'Oh!!! Here we go again, I picked a place I thought she'd like and she's all "ehhhh, it's okay I guess" :doh

So yeah, I do ask her to pick more often than not.
Fortunately, having been together for twenty years, I'm finally at a point where I can sometimes pick a winner for her but it is not an easy thing.
She's a piece of work in that department, she is not easy to impress where food is concerned.

She likes to tease me and say "You, you'll eat anything". But it really isn't like that, I'm just not a super-taster.
I do have my pet peeves with food, just not nearly as many as she has.

Sampson Simpson said:

Or just find an "evolved" woman who lets her brain over her instincts of finding the alpha male.

I do find that some woman can be horrible judges of characters. They can't see a guy doing things and being nice just to sleep with them.

It is a bit ridiculous women continually going with the tough guy who ends up being a jerk, cheating on them and generally treating them like ****. And yet, they just keep going back to that

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They grow out of it eventually. Well, most of them do. From what I've seen the magic age for women is 30. After a woman turns 30, all the stupid things men do that once seemed cute are now correctly viewed as stupid.

As for the nice guy thing; I don't know. It may be true that nice guys finish last when chasing after teenagers or women over twenty who are still stuck in those earlier years. And, I know its true with cheating married women who are usually looking for raunch. But, decent women, aged 25 to 45, they want to be treated nice, IMO--for the most part.

Wan said:

Hello. Questions for the ladies on this board: have you ever met a "Nice Guy"? If so, how did you deal with him and more importantly, why did you feel the way you did towards him?

Questions for the guys: do you think you are, or used to be, a nice guy? And do you feel that being nice is truly a handicap or has it actually increased your chances at having a successful relationship?

I am a woman and I have not met too many nice guys. I did friendzone a few people but because I had so few friends to begin with, I cannot say with any degree of authority on this matter.

Let's share our thoughts.

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lol... Sometimes I'm a nice guy, other times not so much. The same goes for my wife....and both turn me on at different times, for different reasons. My approach has always been **** labels, find someone you love, don't expect perfection, don't accept abuse, and hold on as long as you can. It'll be 15 years with my wife in August. Seems like 15 minutes. Everything else is irrelevant.

Josie said:

I don't see "more men as weak". I see the weak men as weak.

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That is impossible. Weak is relative. Almost everyone sees themselves as strong and believes they do the right amount of standing up for themselves. From your perspective, anybody who is different is weak. That is naive. Others may be mistaken, but not necessarily weak.

Josie said:

I'm a pretty perceptive person.

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Everyone thinks they're a pretty perceptive person, but in reality, your ego has a way of convincing you that what you perceive is more real than it often is.

MrWonka said:

That is impossible. Weak is relative. Almost everyone sees themselves as strong and believes they do the right amount of standing up for themselves. From your perspective, anybody who is different is weak. That is naive. Others may be mistaken, but not necessarily weak.

Everyone thinks they're a pretty perceptive person, but in reality, your ego has a way of convincing you that what you perceive is more real than it often is.

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That isn't what I said nor am I naive. Have a nice day.

Sampson Simpson said:

Or just find an "evolved" woman who lets her brain over her instincts of finding the alpha male.

I do find that some woman can be horrible judges of characters. They can't see a guy doing things and being nice just to sleep with them.

It is a bit ridiculous women continually going with the tough guy who ends up being a jerk, cheating on them and generally treating them like ****. And yet, they just keep going back to that

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The trick is to find a smart enough woman who understands that all the alpha crap is just a game.
It's not so bad if she wants a guy who can play the alpha type bad boy, it's bad when they pick guys who can't turn the act off.
And it is all an act, it's just too bad some guys don't realize that it is.

Evolved women are the ones who get a kick out of all that stuff but who know when it's time to get real, and let men drop the masks and relax.
Men who advertise that stuff too hard aren't the real alpha males, and some women, the evolved ones, know that.
I guess I don't know what the payoff is with guys who put that much work into it 24/7, except of course the overcompensating business, which is really a little bit pathetic to be honest.

At my core, to be totally honest, I get a lot more enjoyment out of making women crack up laughing.
If they want the macho thing, glad to oblige but what I really want is for the both of us to be clutching our sides laughing.
Much more fun.

I think that's why Clarkson, Hammond and May and Finnegan and Freiburger are my favorite motorheads.
I admired Don Prudhomme for his wins at the track but the guy was a total douchebag when the engines weren't running.

Josie said:

It's not difficult to decipher which men are confident and which are fragile once you've spent some time with them.

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I agree with everything you said except the "fragile" part. I think the right amount of fragile, when combined with other traits, can be appealing in a guy. The last guy I liked could be said to be fragile in a sense and this part of him was attractive to me. But he also had other qualities so it's not just his fragility.

Wan said:

I agree with everything you said except the "fragile" part. I think the right amount of fragile, when combined with other traits, can be appealing in a guy. The last guy I liked could be said to be fragile in a sense and this part of him was attractive to me. But he also had other qualities so it's not just his fragility.

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We're probably saying the same thing. I just consider "fragile" to be someone who is SUPER sensitive. Sensitive is great - kind of like the nice guy is great. The extreme of that is not so great.

I always use this movie scene as an example of a TOO nice guy and a TOO sensitive guy:

Josie said:

We're probably saying the same thing. I just consider "fragile" to be someone who is SUPER sensitive. Sensitive is great - kind of like the nice guy is great. The extreme of that is not so great.

I always use this movie scene as an example of a TOO nice guy and a TOO sensitive guy:

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I'm taking notes here. Just so I'm clear; if you cry when you're emotional that's OK but if I cry when you're emotional that may be a little much. Right?

Sampson Simpson said:

Or just find an "evolved" woman who lets her brain over her instincts of finding the alpha male.

I do find that some woman can be horrible judges of characters. They can't see a guy doing things and being nice just to sleep with them.

It is a bit ridiculous women continually going with the tough guy who ends up being a jerk, cheating on them and generally treating them like ****. And yet, they just keep going back to that

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I did that is why i married her.

Lutherf said:

I'm taking notes here. Just so I'm clear; if you cry when you're emotional that's OK but if I cry when you're emotional that may be a little much. Right?

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Nah, that's sweet. If you cry at everything I cry at --- no. Just no.

A guy having a sensitive nature can and often manifests in ways that are other than crying. I guess you can say there are "manly" ways of being sensitive.

Wan said:

Questions for the guys: do you think you are, or used to be, a nice guy? And do you feel that being nice is truly a handicap or has it actually increased your chances at having a successful relationship?

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I used to be a Nice Guy. Grew out of it, eventually, to become a Good Man-- and was dropped headfirst into a sea of poon so deep I can't see the Sun.

Being nice isn't a handicap with women, but it isn't nearly as much of a benefit as Nice Guys think it oughtta be.

The real handicaps of being a Nice Guy are insincerity and desperation, and an inability to recognize what else they can bring to the table, or that they need to bring anything to the table at all. The Nice Guy's fatal defect is his sense of entitlement, his belief that all he needs to do is show up and beautiful women will automatically just fall in love with him. He doesn't think he needs to earn it, that he needs to earn it separately for every different woman, or that he needs to keep earning it every day once he's got one. He wants to change the outcomes of his dating life, but he rejects any notion that he needs to change his appearance or his behavior.

They're stupid, whining children who need to be smacked on the ass and sent to bed without dinner.

All of these redpill assholes, these Nice Guys and incels and failed PUAs... the only thing holding them back is themselves. As soon as they grow the **** up, they'll be making up for lost time in no time.

Korimyr the Rat said:

I used to be a Nice Guy. Grew out of it, eventually, to become a Good Man-- and was dropped headfirst into a sea of poon so deep I can't see the Sun.

Being nice isn't a handicap with women, but it isn't nearly as much of a benefit as Nice Guys think it oughtta be.

The real handicaps of being a Nice Guy are insincerity and desperation, and an inability to recognize what else they can bring to the table, or that they need to bring anything to the table at all. The Nice Guy's fatal defect is his sense of entitlement, his belief that all he needs to do is show up and beautiful women will automatically just fall in love with him. He doesn't think he needs to earn it, that he needs to earn it separately for every different woman, or that he needs to keep earning it every day once he's got one. He wants to change the outcomes of his dating life, but he rejects any notion that he needs to change his appearance or his behavior.

They're stupid, whining children who need to be smacked on the ass and sent to bed without dinner.

All of these redpill assholes, these Nice Guys and incels and failed PUAs... the only thing holding them back is themselves. As soon as they grow the **** up, they'll be making up for lost time in no time.

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I think this is definitely interesting. Are you able to tell us the changes that you made about yourself that made you irresistible to women?

Wan said:

Hello. Questions for the ladies on this board: have you ever met a "Nice Guy"? If so, how did you deal with him and more importantly, why did you feel the way you did towards him?

Questions for the guys: do you think you are, or used to be, a nice guy? And do you feel that being nice is truly a handicap or has it actually increased your chances at having a successful relationship?

I am a woman and I have not met too many nice guys. I did friendzone a few people but because I had so few friends to begin with, I cannot say with any degree of authority on this matter.

Let's share our thoughts.

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I only claim to be a mostly nice guy.

I merely declaim, I can't find any nice girls for free when I don't have any money under our form of Capitalism.

danielpalos said:

I only claim to be a mostly nice guy.

I merely declaim, I can't find any nice girls for free when I don't have any money under our form of Capitalism.

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Uh.....

Wan said:

I think this is definitely interesting. Are you able to tell us the changes that you made about yourself that made you irresistible to women?

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I'm not irresistible. It's just that even if I'm only attractive to small percentage of women... there are a lot of women out there. Which means if 1 woman shoots me down, I can try it on with another. If 10 women shoot me down, I can still try it on with another. If 100 women shoot me down, it's probably closing time-- but there's seven nights in a week.

It also means that I can be picky. One thing the manosphere diaperbabies have right is that human courtship is an ecological game: as soon as a woman realizes I might say no to her, I'm worth several times as much. If she sees that I might go home with another woman, I'm several times more interesting. When she sees I'm not begging for her approval, then she thinks that when I am nice to her, it actually means something more than the fact that I'm trying to get into her pants.

Oh, I also learned to admit when I was trying to get into a woman's pants. A lot of guys would think that's a turn off... but it's the exact kind of Asshole move they're always complaining about working for other guys. It's called honesty, and chicks dig it. Plus, there are ways of openly, nakedly trying to seduce a woman while still showing her the utmost gentlemanly respect. They're really separate issues.

Once I realized that I had to bring something to the table, I had to take stock of myself. I've got no job, I've got a middlin' face, I'm obese, I'm crippled, I'm crazy... But I am genuinely kind, which means more than superficial courtesies-- I provide emotional support, I can give a respectable degree of advice in a lot of areas, and one of the symptoms of my laundry list of psychiatric disorders is that I am superhumanly passionate which is sometimes terrifying but usually incredibly hot. (For women who give half a damn about whatever I'm passionate about.)

But honestly? Most of it isn't about developing new skills. It's about knowing what I've already got, finding women who are looking for that, and then treating them like people. So much of the idiotic bull**** coming from the manosphere is based on the fact that they are simply ideologically incapable of recognizing that women are people and that they have more in common with men than not. They're human beings with human brains and human needs, so it's really not that hard to figure out what they want if you're not assuming they're these bizarre alien creatures.

Josie said:

Uh.....

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that really is worth-less, when there is no porn involved.

Korimyr the Rat said:

I'm not irresistible. It's just that even if I'm only attractive to small percentage of women... there are a lot of women out there. Which means if 1 woman shoots me down, I can try it on with another. If 10 women shoot me down, I can still try it on with another. If 100 women shoot me down, it's probably closing time-- but there's seven nights in a week.

It also means that I can be picky. One thing the manosphere diaperbabies have right is that human courtship is an ecological game: as soon as a woman realizes I might say no to her, I'm worth several times as much. If she sees that I might go home with another woman, I'm several times more interesting. When she sees I'm not begging for her approval, then she thinks that when I am nice to her, it actually means something more than the fact that I'm trying to get into her pants.

Oh, I also learned to admit when I was trying to get into a woman's pants. A lot of guys would think that's a turn off... but it's the exact kind of Asshole move they're always complaining about working for other guys. It's called honesty, and chicks dig it. Plus, there are ways of openly, nakedly trying to seduce a woman while still showing her the utmost gentlemanly respect. They're really separate issues.

Once I realized that I had to bring something to the table, I had to take stock of myself. I've got no job, I've got a middlin' face, I'm obese, I'm crippled, I'm crazy... But I am genuinely kind, which means more than superficial courtesies-- I provide emotional support, I can give a respectable degree of advice in a lot of areas, and one of the symptoms of my laundry list of psychiatric disorders is that I am superhumanly passionate which is sometimes terrifying but usually incredibly hot. (For women who give half a damn about whatever I'm passionate about.)

But honestly? Most of it isn't about developing new skills. It's about knowing what I've already got, finding women who are looking for that, and then treating them like people. So much of the idiotic bull**** coming from the manosphere is based on the fact that they are simply ideologically incapable of recognizing that women are people and that they have more in common with men than not. They're human beings with human brains and human needs, so it's really not that hard to figure out what they want if you're not assuming they're these bizarre alien creatures.

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Don't sell yourself short. I am sure that you are also reasonably attractive, physically speaking. Also, I like your message about kindness. I really think this is one of the most important things about a man, or any human. Any guy I would be attracted to will HAVE to be genuinely kind.

Also, having read your post, I just want to say that I feel that it is really tough to be a guy. I am a woman and a lot of the stuff you said never even occurred to me before. It's like some dude once said, "welcome to life on easy mode". Being a woman really is a lot less difficult in a lot of ways.

Bodhisattva said:

I am not a nice guy... I am nice and polite and all that but not a nice guy. I have a bit of a jerk streak in me... I am not a bad boy. I just don't really care for people so I give off a "eh, I can take it or leave it but you are not that interesting", attitude, which always seemed to attract nice girls. I always dated nice girls but I married a crazy one that was masked as a nice one so I made that mistake. I should have married my high school sweet heart... stupid Bodi... STUPID! LOL

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I bet a lot of guys have that same regret.

Wan said:

Questions for the guys: do you think you are, or used to be, a nice guy? And do you feel that being nice is truly a handicap or has it actually increased your chances at having a successful relationship?

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It's a balance. I'm an alpha and a nice guy. Ya just have to maintain a boundary when people test you or try to take advantage.

MrWonka said:

In reality, most guys know that being nice is a terrible way to get laid...

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This is the problem. If the reason that you are "being nice" is because you are hoping to get laid, are you really "being nice?" It sounds kind of manipulative to me. And I've never dated a guy. If I can see the obvious attempt at manipulation, how much better would someone who dates guys on a regular basis be at detecting it?

Anyone who suffers from "nice guy syndrome" should try this: Take sex off the table. Assume from the start that you will never have sex with the person you are interacting with and proceed from there. If they are still worth interacting with, then do so and just be yourself while never forgetting that you will never be intimate with them, nor is that necessary for the friendship to continue. If not, move on. If you choose to continue the friendship, they might just surprise you with a desire for more intimacy. If not, there are, for all intents and purposes, an infinite number of fish in the sea.

Winchester said:

Define "Nice Guy" please.

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As a syndrome, that would refer to a man who manipulates others, typically women, with mannerisms designed to seek approval; and of course comes with all the unspoken expectations that simmer beneath the surface.


OM

lwf said:

If the reason that you are "being nice" is because you are hoping to get laid, are you really "being nice?" It sounds kind of manipulative to me.

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But that's just the point. Men don't actually do that. Women just convince themselves that men are trying to do that in order to justify not liking them. Men learn at a very early age that women don't sleep with you because you're nice. If all you want to do is get laid you're better off projecting dominance and confidence. So when are trying to be excessively nice to a girl it isn't because they're trying to get laid. Or at least it's not because they're trying to ONLY get laid. They do it because of they legitimately like a girl and want something long term. They believe themselves to be in love whether they are or not.

The guys who are trying to manipulate a woman into sex are the ones who are intentionally not nice. In the PUA world, it's called negging. They treat a woman poorly to ruin herself confidence and get her looking up to him. Sadly a lot of younger more insecure women judge their own personal value relative to the way men treat them. If a man treats them like a princess she thinks he is a desperate doormat who is beneath her. If a guy treats a woman like **** she thinks he must be a really impressive guy who is above her and therefore someone she should be after.

Most women grow out of this a bit as they mature, but it seems like every woman has to date at least three complete **** heads before she starts figuring it out.