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Proposition: Real men do as we want.

Koke said:
Unfortunately, it's almost impossible to address any form of gender roles or biological realities in this age of post modernism and relativism.
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Unfortunately it is now impossible to to do most of the things well that we need to do well if we are are going to win.

I have seen enough of you to know that you know exactly what I am talking about.

We should be friends!

:2wave:
 
Hawkeye10 said:
This former feminist is somewhat surprised that he finds in his 50's that this is actually true...that when women want us enough they will forgive us anything and everthing.

My relationship guru David Deida agrees with me I am pretty damn sure though he has never had the guts to say so so far as I has seen.

How do you feel about that?
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Real Men have the strength to exhibit Self Control, and the wisdom to do so. "Does Whatever They Want" is an apt description of a two-year old.
 
cpwill said:
Real Men have the strength to exhibit Self Control, and the wisdom to do so. "Does Whatever They Want" is an apt description of a two-year old.
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I think either Mr. Deida is misinterpreted, or the man himself needs to talk to some women before he is teaching others about relationships. My bet is on misinterpretation.
 
Lovebug said:
...and reap the reward. Sly little boogers those guys are.
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Not really. They create entitlement in their wives and girlfriends and get harsher responses for disagreeing with her and not doing what she wants than they likely would have if they didn't become bitches by their own doing. Some of these guys stop it after a while and start to insert themselves more, but they pay for that decision many times.
 
Henrin said:
Not really. They create entitlement in their wives and girlfriends and get harsher responses for disagreeing with her and not doing what she wants than they likely would have if they didn't become bitches by their own doing. Some of these guys stop it after a while and start to insert themselves more, but they pay for that decision many times.
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I think communicating with your spouse is a good thing, and compromise is as well.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
This former feminist is somewhat surprised that he finds in his 50's that this is actually true...that when women want us enough they will forgive us anything and everthing.

My relationship guru David Deida agrees with me I am pretty damn sure though he has never had the guts to say so so far as I has seen.

How do you feel about that?
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Um...what are the parameters we're talking about here?

You should find a mate who's aware in advance of the full range of things you want to be free to do so he/she can make an informed decision as to whether you're the right partner.
 
People who make asinine, broad-brush statements about relationships and marriages, are usually those who are not in a good relationship/marriage.
 
Dragonfly said:
You should ignore him. He's completely insane on these topics.
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I'm right. :shrug: Men need to stop being bitches in relationships and go back to the way they were before second wave feminism.
 
A sociopath is a PC psychopath. Psychologists are generally neither use nor ornament.
 
Henrin said:
I'm right. :shrug: Men need to stop being bitches in relationships and go back to the way they were before second wave feminism.
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These so called men characters that I have been watching on Netflix in movies, small house stuff done in the last ten years mostly, tend to be truly embarrassing. They act like dogs who have been kicked a few times too many, weepy mopey ****s who have no clue of how to handle women, or how to do much of anything else really.
 
Dragonfly said:
People who make asinine, broad-brush statements about relationships and marriages, are usually those who are not in a good relationship/marriage.
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False, those who come to understand the lay of the land tend to do the best job of managing a successful path through it.

This is true whether we are talking about relationships or anything else, learning is always valuable.

But most men have no clue, plus they tend to suffer from having been kicked too many times.
 
Cardinal said:
Um...what are the parameters we're talking about here?

You should find a mate who's aware in advance of the full range of things you want to be free to do so he/she can make an informed decision as to whether you're the right partner.
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People are too complex and change too much over time for that argument to hunt.

Plus it is rare for even the best of us to have a firm understanding of who we are before our mid 30's, mid 40's is more common, but many never get there.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
False, those who come to understand the lay of the land tend to do the best job of managing a successful path through it.

This is true whether we are talking about relationships or anything else, learning is always valuable.

But most men have no clue, plus they tend to suffer from having been kicked too many times.
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Oh please.....when you crawl into the same crib as henrin, and you both switch off being the inner spoon, you should know you've entered the deepest, darkest part of the cesspool.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
People are too complex and change too much over time for that argument to hunt.

Plus it is rare for even the best of us to have a firm understanding of who we are before our mid 30's, mid 40's is more common, but many never get there.
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Fair enough, then if you change so much that your behavior is no longer acceptable to your partner, you should break up. People do grow apart and go their separate ways. It's a human condition.
 
Lovebug said:
I think communicating with your spouse is a good thing, and compromise is as well.
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My theory is that once we figure out what our women really want, and then give it to them, that we can write our own ticket after that, do as we want to do, that women will figure out some way to make it work in their heads. What few men ever understand is what we are taught that women want is rarely what their woman want, though their woman will claim otherwise because they have been taught to follow the script, taught that there is something wrong with them if they want something other than what their betters have told them that they should want.

Step 1: Figure out your woman.

Step 2: Give her what she most wants.

Step 3: Be in charge, do what you want to do, she will be more than fine with that regardless of what she claims.

This is my theory.
 
Cardinal said:
Fair enough, then if you change so much that your behavior is no longer acceptable to your partner, you should break up. People do grow apart and go their separate ways. It's a human condition.
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Ya but I have become convinced that people who grow apart rather than grow together have suffered from a poor quality relationship usually. It is not purely by chance that this break and then the end of the relationship has happened, normally the work was not done well....and make no mistake, conducting a quality life long relationship requires work from both. I remind you that figuring out what your woman wants and giving it to her is work. My argument is that once men put in that work, and make sure that this work is quality, then we reap the rewards.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
Ya but I have become convinced that people who grow apart rather than grow together have suffered from a poor quality relationship usually. It is not purely by chance that this break and then the end of the relationship has happened, normally the work was not done well....and make no mistake, conducting a quality life long relationship requires work from both. I remind you that figuring out what you woman wants and giving it to her is work. My argument is that once men put in that work, and make sure that this work is quality, then we reap the rewards.
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All of that is true. And the later in life two people end up together, the less likely they're going to grow apart.
 
Cardinal said:
All of that is true. And the later in life two people end up together, the less likely they're going to grow apart.
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And do you agree with David Deida that women generally want men to lead, and want their men to be able to handle them at their worst (and "handle" is most certainly not saying "yes dear") ...... that once they grow confident in our leadership and grow confident in our ability to stand up to feminine energy that this is when women really open up?
 
Hawkeye10 said:
And do you agree with David Deida that women generally want men to lead, and want their men to be able to handle them at their worst (and "handle" is most certainly not saying "yes dear") ...... that once they grow confident in our leadership and grow confident in our ability to stand up to feminine energy that this is when women really open up?
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Lead is a flexible term. I can see how a woman can want a man to lead, but there is no small chasm between lead and command. I "handle" my wife at her worst by listening to her and commiserating, but not by taking control of her decisions and her problems. And if I did take control of her problems and her decisions, it would only be because I had in the past earned her confidence to take over in such matters. But rest assured, if I have not earned that confidence, she ain't allowing it.

I think every wife wants her husband to "grow confident in his leadership," but again, that is a very different thing than to take command in a relationship.
 
Cardinal said:
Lead is a flexible term. I can see how a woman can want a man to lead, but there is no small chasm between lead and command. I "handle" my wife at her worst by listening to her and commiserating, but not by taking control of her decisions and her problems. And if I did take control of her problems and her decisions, it would only be because I had in the past earned her confidence to take over in such matters. But rest assured, if I have not earned that confidence, she ain't allowing it.

I think every wife wants her husband to "grow confident in his leadership," but again, that is a very different thing than to take command in a relationship.
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Ya that sounds right, but see it all depends upon the nature of the woman. A lot of women do want to be taken in hand, do want to be instructed, and will follow that instruction if they believe in their man....even though they have been told all their lives that this is the old way and that it is no longer OK. We tend to put women in a straight jacket "You should be able to have what ever you want, but if you dont want the "right" things then you are a victim and should keep quiet till you learn to be better".

But the main thing that I was getting act is that women need a man who will not melt down when women really get going with their aggression, for women are as aggressive as men, and women these days tend to be able to handle male aggression much better then men can handle female aggression. So many men these days turn into a pile a goo when faced with WOMAN, either that or their very first move is to run away.
 
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Hawkeye10 said:
Ya that sounds right, but see it all depends upon the nature of the woman. A lot of women do want to be taken in hand, do want to be instructed, and will follow that instruction if they believe in their man....even though they have been told all their lives that this is the old way and that it is no longer OK. We tend to put women in a straight jacket "You should be able to have what ever you want, but if you dont want the "right" things then you are a victim and should keep quiet till you learn".
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I would feel very uncomfortable in a relationship with a woman who wanted to follow my instruction as a matter of course. A woman who doesn't assert herself and take command of her own decisions would be extremely annoying to me. I couldn't respect her, and that would be a very unhealthy relationship for me. It's hard for someone like me to imagine that it's especially healthy for a woman to want to be dominated, but I suppose if that's what truly makes her happy then there's all types.

Hawkeye10 said:
But the main thing that I was getting act is that women need a man who will not melt down when women really get going with their aggression, for women are as aggressive as men, and women these days tend to be able to handle male aggression much better then men can handle female aggression. So many men these days turn into a pile a goo when faced with WOMAN, either that or their very first move is to run away.
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Nobody should be "melting down" in the face of the other's aggression, but then by the same token nobody's aggression should be causing one's partner to feel fear in the first place.
 
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