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Income and debt disparity creating problems

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vash1012

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Background: She makes $49,000 a year, but has somewhere around $110,000 in student loans, credit card debt, and medical debt. I knew about some of this going in, though I didn't know the whole picture.

I make $110,000 a year and have no debt, but I want to be able to work flexible and travel. I spent a year traveling around the world, ending about 8 months ago. I plan to hike the AT next year. I have a flexible enough career that I can quit jobs and get new ones easily enough (medical field). I can work part time and take months off at a time. She definitely knew about all this going in. She gives me a lot of freedom to do my own thing.

I do not see any future in our relationship with the amount of debt she has and the type of lifestyle I want to lead. So in order to make this relationship possible, we made an arrangement recently where I would pay rent and bills if she paid double on her student loans. I figured if I pay have to pay rent anyway if I'm single I might as well give the relationship a chance to work by letting her tackle her debt. I also end up paying for 80-85% of everything we do. The problem arose when I started trying to hold girlfriend to her end of the bargin. I gave her a couple months to get caught up with her finances at her job. She had a problem outside of her control which I won't get into, but I gave her another month to get that handled, but after that she was still living pay check to pay check because of spending money on clothes, things for her niece, stuff for the house, etc. We talked about it and after some anger and another month and a half, finally she got down to things and started upholding her end of things.

Now we are running into some issues. I am feeling like I am being taken for granted because she doesn't really want to consider the fact that I am paying nearly all our expenses in the broader dynamic of our relationship as far as who taking care of household chores, making decisions about things, etc. I am resentful of how long it took for her to start taking her finances seriously. I feel like I have to micromanage her finances to prevent calamity. She commutes an hour to work and goes 5000 miles too long between oil changes. She routinely talks about expensive things like taking vacations, getting tattoos, or buying cars (apparently she's joking). She neglected to fill out a survey at work and has to pay an extra $1600 a year for her health insurance. I feel like the next big expense that's going to delay her getting her finances in order is always just around the corner.

She complains about inequality in who is taking care of the household chores. I freely admit I don't clean as much as her, but I don't care about having a spotless house all the time. I'm not a slob by any means. I work 12 hour days so I straighten up when I'm off and help out with sweeping and dishes, but I think I should get a bit of deference about leaving a coffee cup on the counter and not cleaning the bathroom twice a week given the other inequalities in our relationship. My issue is not that she wants me to pick up the coffee cup, but she indignantly proclaims that "she has to do everything around here" and that's when I respond with the fact that I am paying for nearly everything so clearly things don't have to be equal. She also feels like I treat her like an inferior when I comment on her finances and how she spends her money. She doesn't like that I remind her that she is too poor when she talks about buying a new car or how she wants a big house (she says she's just talking, not being serious) or gets upset that she can't come with me on a trip I'm taking. She thinks she doesn't have enough say in how things go. I am thinking of buying a small house and she is upset that I don't give her much say in it even though she won't be putting a dime into it.

My question is how do we reconcile these two things: I feel resentful about the situation because she is very clearly benefiting WAY more than I am about of this relationship, but still complains about things being unequal in my favor. She feels disempowered. I think she disempowered herself when she took out so much debt. She thinks I make her feel like an inferior. I think I'm helping her and helping myself because of my much better financial sense. What do we do to resolve this?
 
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vash1012 said:
Background: She makes $49,000 a year, but has somewhere around $110,000 in student loans, credit card debt, and medical debt. I knew about some of this going in, though I didn't know the whole picture.

I make $110,000 a year and have no debt, but I want to be able to work flexible and travel. I spent a year traveling around the world, ending about 8 months ago. I plan to hike the AT next year. I have a flexible enough career that I can quit jobs and get new ones easily enough (medical field). I can work part time and take months off at a time. She definitely knew about all this going in. She gives me a lot of freedom to do my own thing.

I do not see any future in our relationship with the amount of debt she has and the type of lifestyle I want to lead. So in order to make this relationship possible, we made an arrangement recently where I would pay rent and bills if she paid double on her student loans. I figured if I pay have to pay rent anyway if I'm single I might as well give the relationship a chance to work by letting her tackle her debt. I also end up paying for 80-85% of everything we do. The problem arose when I started trying to hold girlfriend to her end of the bargin. I gave her a couple months to get caught up with her finances at her job. She had a problem outside of her control which I won't get into, but I gave her another month to get that handled, but after that she was still living pay check to pay check because of spending money on clothes, things for her niece, stuff for the house, etc. We talked about it and after some anger and another month and a half, finally she got down to things and started upholding her end of things.

Now we are running into some issues. I am feeling like I am being taken for granted because she doesn't really want to consider the fact that I am paying nearly all our expenses in the broader dynamic of our relationship as far as who taking care of household chores, making decisions about things, etc. I am resentful of how long it took for her to start taking her finances seriously. I feel like I have to micromanage her finances to prevent calamity. She commutes an hour to work and goes 5000 miles too long between oil changes. She routinely talks about expensive things like taking vacations, getting tattoos, or buying cars (apparently she's joking). She neglected to fill out a survey at work and has to pay an extra $1600 a year for her health insurance. I feel like the next big expense that's going to delay her getting her finances in order is always just around the corner.

She complains about inequality in who is taking care of the household chores. I freely admit I don't clean as much as her, but I don't care about having a spotless house all the time. I'm not a slob by any means. I work 12 hour days so I straighten up when I'm off and help out with sweeping and dishes, but I think I should get a bit of deference about leaving a coffee cup on the counter and not cleaning the bathroom twice a week given the other inequalities in our relationship. My issue is not that she wants me to pick up the coffe cup, but she indignantly proclaims that "she has to do everything around here" and that's when I respond with the fact that I am paying for nearly everything so clearly things don't have to be equal. She also feels like I treat her like an inferior when I comment on her finances and how she spends her money. She doesn't like that I remind her that she is too poor when she talks about buying a new car or how she wants a big house or gets upset that she can't come with me on a trip I'm taking. She thinks she doesn't have enough say in how things go. I am thinking of buying a small house and she is upset that I don't give her much say in it even though she won't be putting a dime into it.

My question is how do we reconcile these two things: I feel resentful about the situation because she is very clearly benefiting WAY more than I am about of this relationship, but still complains about things being unequal in my favor. She feels disempowered. She thinks I make her feel like an inferior. What do we do to resolve this?
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I don't know what to say but if you are serious about buying a house you better make sure you speak with a financial planner or a lawyer so she doesn't end up with half of it if you two separate.
 
reinoe said:
I don't know what to say but if you are serious about buying a house you better make sure you speak with a financial planner or a lawyer so she doesn't end up with half of it if you two separate.
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We are not married, do not plan to be, and they got rid of common law marriage in our state so I am fairly sure that isn't a risk. I will make sure though. Good point.
 
We are too poor to have such money problems. ;)

I would suggest that if debt is the real problem then help her (even more) to put that behind you both even if it means fewer vacations (for you alone) for a while. With a combined income of $160K that amount of debt seems like a very small issue.
 
vash1012 said:
Background: She makes $49,000 a year, but has somewhere around $110,000 in student loans, credit card debt, and medical debt. I knew about some of this going in, though I didn't know the whole picture.

I make $110,000 a year and have no debt, but I want to be able to work flexible and travel. I spent a year traveling around the world, ending about 8 months ago. I plan to hike the AT next year. I have a flexible enough career that I can quit jobs and get new ones easily enough (medical field). I can work part time and take months off at a time. She definitely knew about all this going in. She gives me a lot of freedom to do my own thing.

I do not see any future in our relationship with the amount of debt she has and the type of lifestyle I want to lead. So in order to make this relationship possible, we made an arrangement recently where I would pay rent and bills if she paid double on her student loans. I figured if I pay have to pay rent anyway if I'm single I might as well give the relationship a chance to work by letting her tackle her debt. I also end up paying for 80-85% of everything we do. The problem arose when I started trying to hold girlfriend to her end of the bargin. I gave her a couple months to get caught up with her finances at her job. She had a problem outside of her control which I won't get into, but I gave her another month to get that handled, but after that she was still living pay check to pay check because of spending money on clothes, things for her niece, stuff for the house, etc. We talked about it and after some anger and another month and a half, finally she got down to things and started upholding her end of things.

Now we are running into some issues. I am feeling like I am being taken for granted because she doesn't really want to consider the fact that I am paying nearly all our expenses in the broader dynamic of our relationship as far as who taking care of household chores, making decisions about things, etc. I am resentful of how long it took for her to start taking her finances seriously. I feel like I have to micromanage her finances to prevent calamity. She commutes an hour to work and goes 5000 miles too long between oil changes. She routinely talks about expensive things like taking vacations, getting tattoos, or buying cars (apparently she's joking). She neglected to fill out a survey at work and has to pay an extra $1600 a year for her health insurance. I feel like the next big expense that's going to delay her getting her finances in order is always just around the corner.

She complains about inequality in who is taking care of the household chores. I freely admit I don't clean as much as her, but I don't care about having a spotless house all the time. I'm not a slob by any means. I work 12 hour days so I straighten up when I'm off and help out with sweeping and dishes, but I think I should get a bit of deference about leaving a coffee cup on the counter and not cleaning the bathroom twice a week given the other inequalities in our relationship. My issue is not that she wants me to pick up the coffe cup, but she indignantly proclaims that "she has to do everything around here" and that's when I respond with the fact that I am paying for nearly everything so clearly things don't have to be equal. She also feels like I treat her like an inferior when I comment on her finances and how she spends her money. She doesn't like that I remind her that she is too poor when she talks about buying a new car or how she wants a big house or gets upset that she can't come with me on a trip I'm taking. She thinks she doesn't have enough say in how things go. I am thinking of buying a small house and she is upset that I don't give her much say in it even though she won't be putting a dime into it.

My question is how do we reconcile these two things: I feel resentful about the situation because she is very clearly benefiting WAY more than I am about of this relationship, but still complains about things being unequal in my favor. She feels disempowered. She thinks I make her feel like an inferior. What do we do to resolve this?
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If you resent it, pull out.
 
So......you've outlined the negatives. What are the positives? Must be something. What age bracket are the two of you?
 
ttwtt78640 said:
We are too poor to have such money problems. ;)

I would suggest that if debt is the real problem then help her (even more) to put that behind you both even if it means fewer vacations (for you alone) for a while. With a combined income of $160K that amount of debt seems like a very small issue.
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There is not a chance of that happening. We aren't married. $110,000 at an average of 6.5% interest is not a small amount of debt. I went through 7 years of school for my doctorate and already paid off $130,000 in 6 years. That was over half my income every month for 5+ years. I've done my time. I've been debt free for less than 6 months now. Not to mention I need to make up for retirement savings I was neglecting.
 
vash1012 said:
There is not a chance of that happening. We aren't married. $110,000 at an average of 6.5% interest is not a small amount of debt. I went through 7 years of school for my doctorate and already paid off $130,000 in 6 years. That was over half my income every month for 5+ years. I've done my time. I've been debt free for less than 6 months now. Not to mention I need to make up for retirement savings I was neglecting.
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Then I guess that it's time to start interviewing (debt free?) replacements. ;)
 
Rexedgar said:
So......you've outlined the negatives. What are the positives? Must be something. What age bracket are the two of you?
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I'm 31 and she's 29. Positives are we get along really well. She's mostly accomodating to my desires for non-traditional lifestyles as far as traveling and not having a high standard of living. We see eye to eye religiously and mostly politically, which is rare for an atheist. I like somewhat open relationships and don't want to get married and I'm very unsure about kids. There are not many attractive and fun women who will go for that. Our friends groups are irreversibly intertwined. We have 2 dogs together. Not saying we are perfect outside of the money issues, but its 70% of the issues we have to deal with.
 
I think when you start resenting your partner and all you see are their faults...then the relationship is probably over.
 
vash1012 said:
Background: She makes $49,000 a year, but has somewhere around $110,000 in student loans, credit card debt, and medical debt. I knew about some of this going in, though I didn't know the whole picture.

------------------------snip
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The only way this works is if both you become willing to be financial used and she decides that she wants to limit how badly you are used by getting better and her financial life. You are not wrong that you should also get consideration for your willingness to cover her partly financially.

It is always dangerous to go off of one side of the story only but based upon what you said I suspect that it is almost ultimatum time....."I am willing to try one more time for x number of months but if you dont hold up your side we need to split". She will likely get all offended and walk out on the spot, at which time you will know that you made the right call.
 
vash1012 said:
I'm 31 and she's 29. Positives are we get along really well. She's mostly accomodating to my desires for non-traditional lifestyles as far as traveling and not having a high standard of living. We see eye to eye religiously and mostly politically, which is rare for an atheist. I like somewhat open relationships and don't want to get married and I'm very unsure about kids. There are not many attractive and fun women who will go for that. Our friends groups are irreversibly intertwined. We have 2 dogs together. Not saying we are perfect outside of the money issues, but its 70% of the issues we have to deal with.
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What does your gut tell you?
 
When I am with one of my grandkids and see an elderly person still working, I say something like "it sure is a shame that people that old still have to work to get by". I hope it sinks in.
The wife and I retired at 58 and we have ample assets and income to feel secure and have some fun in our retirement years. We planned to retire at 62 but our employers offered enhanced packages to leave. We were better prepared than we thought and it has been fun traveling a lot. Being debt free is great, it actually feels good.

Is she considering improving her job skills? Her income seems a bit low for a single person in today's economy.

A little paranoia about your future is a good thing.
 
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vash1012 said:
Background: She makes $49,000 a year, but has somewhere around $110,000 in student loans, credit card debt, and medical debt. I knew about some of this going in, though I didn't know the whole picture. ....
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In my opinion, you should stop saying "I paid for this" and "she paid for this". If you're living like a married couple, your finances and debts should be combined and you pay for them out of your combined income. When you make a commitment to someone, you should be willing to take on their faults too and that includes their debts. She's feeling inferior because it's you v. her instead of you both working together as a team. If you're uncomfortable combining your income and signing a mortgage together on a house, what's the point in continuing the relationship that's supposed to be a partnership?
 
UtahBill said:
When I am with one of my grandkids and see an elderly person still working, I say something like "it sure is a shame that people that old still have to work to get by". I hope it sinks in.
The wife and I retired at 58 and we have ample assets and income to feel secure and have some fun in our retirement years. We planned to retire at 62 but our employers offered enhanced packages to leave. We were better prepared than we thought and it has been fun traveling a lot. Being debt free is great, it actually feels good.

Is she considering improving her job skills? Her income seems a bit low for a single person in today's economy.

A little paranoia about your future is a good thing.
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She actually just switched careers from journalism to healthcare PR and got a 50% pay raise. She was making barely over 30 grand before and was defering her federal loans by taking a class towards a masters (which she was borrowing more money for). She has a good chance of having her income go up if she stays where she is. She's talked about getting her Healthcare Admin masters. This would all be years off though. If she were to lose this job for some reason, her pay would likely decrease significantly.
 
Josie said:
In my opinion, you should stop saying "I paid for this" and "she paid for this". If you're living like a married couple, your finances and debts should be combined and you pay for them out of your combined income. When you make a commitment to someone, you should be willing to take on their faults too and that includes their debts. She's feeling inferior because it's you v. her instead of you both working together as a team. If you're uncomfortable combining your income and signing a mortgage together on a house, what's the point in continuing the relationship that's supposed to be a partnership?
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We entered in to this relationship with the understanding we would stay individuals. I have no interest in an interdependent relationship to the level you are talking about unless we are going to have children. She's never asked me to pay her loans, not does she want me to. Part of the reason she's in this mess is she had an interdependent relationship with mixed finances before and the guy left her with 20-25 thousand in debt. That's obviously not going to happen here, but we both don't want our finances mixed.
 
vash1012 said:
She actually just switched careers from journalism to healthcare PR and got a 50% pay raise. She was making barely over 30 grand before and was defering her federal loans by taking a class towards a masters (which she was borrowing more money for). She has a good chance of having her income go up if she stays where she is. She's talked about getting her Healthcare Admin masters. This would all be years off though. If she were to lose this job for some reason, her pay would likely decrease significantly.
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She in in healthcare, and messed up her healthcare through carelessness....not a promising sign.
 
sex, finances, and communication....the three killers of relationionships

you are a saver, and she sounds like a spender....usually you cant change a person from their base habits....i said usually

my wife did change....but it took time, and patience...and i was willing to put in the work

doesnt sound like you want to do that....so cut bait....and get out now

or realize that you want more, and help her change

those are the the only answers....your choice
 
Money issues are among the leading cause of divorce. You aren't married and are already having those issues. You may be able to work it out but it sounds like it will be an uphill battle.
 
vash1012 said:
Background: She makes $49,000 a year, but has somewhere around $110,000 in student loans, credit card debt, and medical debt. I knew about some of this going in, though I didn't know the whole picture.

I make $110,000 a year and have no debt, but I want to be able to work flexible and travel. I spent a year traveling around the world, ending about 8 months ago. I plan to hike the AT next year. I have a flexible enough career that I can quit jobs and get new ones easily enough (medical field). I can work part time and take months off at a time. She definitely knew about all this going in. She gives me a lot of freedom to do my own thing.

I do not see any future in our relationship with the amount of debt she has and the type of lifestyle I want to lead. So in order to make this relationship possible, we made an arrangement recently where I would pay rent and bills if she paid double on her student loans. I figured if I pay have to pay rent anyway if I'm single I might as well give the relationship a chance to work by letting her tackle her debt. I also end up paying for 80-85% of everything we do. The problem arose when I started trying to hold girlfriend to her end of the bargin. I gave her a couple months to get caught up with her finances at her job. She had a problem outside of her control which I won't get into, but I gave her another month to get that handled, but after that she was still living pay check to pay check because of spending money on clothes, things for her niece, stuff for the house, etc. We talked about it and after some anger and another month and a half, finally she got down to things and started upholding her end of things.

Now we are running into some issues. I am feeling like I am being taken for granted because she doesn't really want to consider the fact that I am paying nearly all our expenses in the broader dynamic of our relationship as far as who taking care of household chores, making decisions about things, etc. I am resentful of how long it took for her to start taking her finances seriously. I feel like I have to micromanage her finances to prevent calamity. She commutes an hour to work and goes 5000 miles too long between oil changes. She routinely talks about expensive things like taking vacations, getting tattoos, or buying cars (apparently she's joking). She neglected to fill out a survey at work and has to pay an extra $1600 a year for her health insurance. I feel like the next big expense that's going to delay her getting her finances in order is always just around the corner.

She complains about inequality in who is taking care of the household chores. I freely admit I don't clean as much as her, but I don't care about having a spotless house all the time. I'm not a slob by any means. I work 12 hour days so I straighten up when I'm off and help out with sweeping and dishes, but I think I should get a bit of deference about leaving a coffee cup on the counter and not cleaning the bathroom twice a week given the other inequalities in our relationship. My issue is not that she wants me to pick up the coffee cup, but she indignantly proclaims that "she has to do everything around here" and that's when I respond with the fact that I am paying for nearly everything so clearly things don't have to be equal. She also feels like I treat her like an inferior when I comment on her finances and how she spends her money. She doesn't like that I remind her that she is too poor when she talks about buying a new car or how she wants a big house (she says she's just talking, not being serious) or gets upset that she can't come with me on a trip I'm taking. She thinks she doesn't have enough say in how things go. I am thinking of buying a small house and she is upset that I don't give her much say in it even though she won't be putting a dime into it.

My question is how do we reconcile these two things: I feel resentful about the situation because she is very clearly benefiting WAY more than I am about of this relationship, but still complains about things being unequal in my favor. She feels disempowered. I think she disempowered herself when she took out so much debt. She thinks I make her feel like an inferior. I think I'm helping her and helping myself because of my much better financial sense. What do we do to resolve this?
Click to expand...

...do you like her?
 
$110k in student loan debt isn't really that much. If it's truly student loans (a lot of people have debt and call it student loans, but it was really spent on other things and it's not student loans, it's high interest rate consumer loans and credit cards), payments shouldn't be any more than a nice car payment and she should be able to handle it easily, and you should have no resentment of her for having that debt and her income is above the median income. If you care about her, I scarcely see why it's bothering you. I also think that you have a good plan in mind as far as you handling the rent and bills, allowing her to double up on her student loan payments.
 
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