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Stimulus impasse threatens both economy and Trump

George50 said:
You seem to have forgotten that the House passed a relief bill more than two months ago. The Senate could have started negotiations with the House way back then on May 16, but no the Senate Republicans have been negotiating with the White House wanting to get an agreement with them first instead. The reason the House and Senate are far apart is that the Senate just started negotiations at the very last minute. The House has been ready to negotiate for months.

Perhaps you’ve also forgotten that part of the problem with the White House/Senate Republican negotiations was the White House’s insistence that a new FBI building be included in the package to protect Trump’s hotel from competition. This was too blatant a misuse of presidential power for even Senate Republicans to stomach. Now that Trump sees there is a good chance he might lose the election he is trying to hurry up and take care of the things that he ACTUALLY cares about.


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You lay it out well.

And the reason nothing got done? Besides Trump? McConnel can't get anything past his caucus!

Republicans won't do it. So he will need the Dems to do it. With the Dems consequently getting most of what they want, mostly in populace items. McConnel will get liability protection for his donors. And Trump will get his F.B.I. building across the street from his hotel.

Pelosi's going to be the hero here. Appropriately, her legislation is coined the "Hero's Act"!
 
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Chomsky said:
Pelosi will get pretty much all of what she needs, and most of what she wants. I'm guessing at least 400 bucks a week unemployment for 4 months, a good chunk of change for the states, and student loan relief.
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Even this much would be a major concession to McConnell. Getting a chunk of change for the states is what I would consider dubious, since they are all Democrat controlled. Getting a bone, maybe. As with everything else, she will claim victory for the cameras.

Chomsky said:
What? I find this hard to believe.
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That's just Hamish howling at the bad orange man. Don't tell him it's only a campaign poster.
 
Jay59 said:
Even this much would be a major concession to McConnell. Getting a chunk of change for the states is what I would consider dubious, since they are all Democrat controlled. Getting a bone, maybe. As with everything else, she will claim victory for the cameras.


That's just Hamish howling at the bad orange man. Don't tell him it's only a campaign poster.
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Thanks!

I made the 'at least $400 a week' prediction, conservatively. It could be 500, or perhaps even the full 600. God knows the economy needs it. She'll probably get eviction/foreclosure relief, too.

But I'm not sure what you mean by, "Dem Controlled"? In gubernatorial terms, the statehouses are 24D-26R.
 
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Mycroft said:
Trump haters may be unaware, but smart people who don't rely on the MSM to tell them what to think will know that it's not "The White House and Congress" that remain far from a deal. It's the Senate and the House. In other words, Congress.

And when Congress goes on vacation in a few days...without a deal...the smart people will understand that it was Congress who failed. Not Trump.
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Yes, of course, nothing is ever Trump's fault. He's just the President with enormous leverage over the GOP in Congress, so of course if talks fail, the buck never stops on his desk.

Here's Truman's desk:

the-buck-stops-here.jpg


The sign on Trump's desk says, "The buck stops way over ========================> there!" What a leader! MAGA!!

But you're right in a way - the GOP is worthless as a whole, and we're seeing their incompetence on full display. The House got their bill done weeks ago. The GOP did the college all-nighter and didn't even get the paper turned in and everyone else is going to pay for their deliberate failure to even get a deal the GOP could agree on in time. The entire GOP delegation need to be voted out on their asses in November, and I'll do my part. Hope you will, too. :peace
 
CLAX1911 said:
These days tribalism is truth. Will you have the tribe that says orange man bad. therefore everything he does his bad from the way he drinks his water, do the way he Combs his hair.

it doesn't matter that Democrats are trying to steal stimulus money from the people who need it to fund stupid nonsense like the Kennedy center.

The tribal leaders say orange man bad therefore that's the truth to them. Further they can do no wrong so it's less like a tribal leader and more like a demigod.
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It's really hard to blame Democrats here since unless I missed something the GOP still hasn't come up with a firm proposal that they can agree on with the WH. The House cannot negotiate against air, and the GOP is so incompetent they waited until the last minute and STILL cannot agree among themselves. That's not the Democrats' fault.
 
Fletch said:
Youve just explained quite well why democrats arent looking for a deal.
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It's the GOP in the Senate and the WH who are too stupid, lazy and incompetent to put a plan on the table. How in the hell can you blame that on the Democrats? They got their part done weeks and weeks ago.

My goodness, the gaslighting on this is epic! And the GOP lemmings are actually buying it. Fascinating!
 
Jay59 said:
Even this much would be a major concession to McConnell. Getting a chunk of change for the states is what I would consider dubious, since they are all Democrat controlled. Getting a bone, maybe. As with everything else, she will claim victory for the cameras.

That's just Hamish howling at the bad orange man. Don't tell him it's only a campaign poster.
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The states are not all "Democrat" controlled. That's hilarious stuff. I live in a state with a GOP governor and a massive GOP majority in both state houses. As I recall it's a 26/24 split, GOP/Democratic. Roughly half at any rate.
 
JasperL said:
Yes, of course, nothing is ever Trump's fault. He's just the President with enormous leverage over the GOP in Congress, so of course if talks fail, the buck never stops on his desk.

Here's Truman's desk:

the-buck-stops-here.jpg


The sign on Trump's desk says, "The buck stops way over ========================> there!" What a leader! MAGA!!

But you're right in a way - the GOP is worthless as a whole, and we're seeing their incompetence on full display. The House got their bill done weeks ago. The GOP did the college all-nighter and didn't even get the paper turned in and everyone else is going to pay for their deliberate failure to even get a deal the GOP could agree on in time. The entire GOP delegation need to be voted out on their asses in November, and I'll do my part. Hope you will, too. :peace
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:thumbs:

(to everything)
 
JasperL said:
It's really hard to blame Democrats here since unless I missed something the GOP still hasn't come up with a firm proposal that they can agree on with the WH. The House cannot negotiate against air, and the GOP is so incompetent they waited until the last minute and STILL cannot agree among themselves. That's not the Democrats' fault.
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Yes it's easy to blame Democrats they want to steal some of the money to pay for stupidity because that's what they do. They did it last time. They tried to hold it hostage to enforce the Communist New deal.

House Democrats have been trying to cause problems Donald Trump took office. That's all they do.
 
Chomsky said:
Thanks! I made the 'at least $400 a week' prediction, conservatively. It could be 500, or perhaps even the full 600. God knows the economy needs it. She'll probably get eviction/foreclosure relief, too. But I'm not sure what you mean by, "Dem Controlled"? In gubernatorial terms, the statehouses are 24D-26R.
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The states that are having serious funding shortfalls are almost all Democrat controlled, NY, NJ, MA, CA etc. Eviction/foreclosure relief is already being done at the state level. It's unnecessary for a federal bill.

The amount per week is a serious issue since over 2/3 of the people receiving are making more money not working than they did working, sometimes 3-4 times as much. For example, a teenager with a 15 hour a week after school job at a movie theater. That's not a hypothetical. When the Republicans say there is a disincentive to return to work, it's not spin.
 
JacksinPA said:
People who are broke, jobless, crammed into covid-ridden shelters are not going to vote for Trump.
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Why are you blaming Trump when this is Congresses fault?

It didn't even get to Trump yet.
 
Wayne Jr said:
Why are you blaming Trump when this is Congresses fault?

It didn't even get to Trump yet.
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Wrong! Senate Republicans sought approval from the White House FIRST. Trump has been the holdup in getting it past Republicans in the Senate. Trump wants a payroll tax cut that will help NO ONE that is employed and put more than $30,000,000 in his own pocket and an FBI building that will protect his Hotel from competition. Even Republicans in the Senate couldn’t stomach voting for Trump’s self serving proposals.


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Mycroft said:
The Dems and Trump haters certainly want all that to happen to citizens. It's the only thing they think can get them a win.

As I said...smart people know who is not getting the stimulus done...and it's not Trump.
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Kinda depends on how many republican senators are OK with forcing the FBI to rebuild across from trumps property instead of the bigger better closer site they wanted.

Which just happens to prevent a competing property being built there.
 
What if...? said:
Kinda depends on how many republican senators are OK with forcing the FBI to rebuild across from trumps property instead of the bigger better closer site they wanted.

Which just happens to prevent a competing property being built there.
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Wait what, are you saying the GOP and Trump are utterly corrupt? Say it ain't so....

Sent from my Honor 8X
 
George50 said:
You seem to have forgotten that the House passed a relief bill more than two months ago. The Senate could have started negotiations with the House way back then on May 16, but no the Senate Republicans have been negotiating with the White House wanting to get an agreement with them first instead. The reason the House and Senate are far apart is that the Senate just started negotiations at the very last minute. The House has been ready to negotiate for months.

Perhaps you’ve also forgotten that part of the problem with the White House/Senate Republican negotiations was the White House’s insistence that a new FBI building be included in the package to protect Trump’s hotel from competition. This was too blatant a misuse of presidential power for even Senate Republicans to stomach. Now that Trump sees there is a good chance he might lose the election he is trying to hurry up and take care of the things that he ACTUALLY cares about.


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Like I said...it's on Congress.

The Senate needs to negotiate with the House...not the WH.

Now...if those Congressmen in the House and Senate want to quibble over unrelated issues, that's also on Congress.

Me? I prefer Congress stick to the issues of stimulus and relief, but that's not how they operate.
 
Chomsky said:
You are wrong.

Here's what Pelosi put in her bill:

Full unemployment compensation through next January, money to the states for citizen testing & medical supplies, hazard pay and childcare for essential workers, eviction and foreclosure assistance, and student loan relief for both public & private loans.

Here's what McConnel wants:

Liability protection for his donors

Here's what Trump wants:

New F.B.I. Building accross the street from his D.C. Hotel

Not True at all. Pelosi has passed a very populace bill. McConnel has done nothing. Trump remains silent.

Pelosi is the only one coming to the aid of the people.
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And since none of them will get everything they want, they'll wheel and deal. But the wheeling and dealing happens in Congress. Nancy knows this. She knows she won't get her kitchen sink. She knows she'll get what she really wants...campaign talking points.
 
CLAX1911 said:
These days tribalism is truth. Will you have the tribe that says orange man bad. therefore everything he does his bad from the way he drinks his water, do the way he Combs his hair.

it doesn't matter that Democrats are trying to steal stimulus money from the people who need it to fund stupid nonsense like the Kennedy center.

The tribal leaders say orange man bad therefore that's the truth to them. Further they can do no wrong so it's less like a tribal leader and more like a demigod.
Click to expand...

You forgot he wears makeup all day every day.

And speaks of himself in the third person.

What more does anybody need to declare him unworthy of consideration for anything?
 
JasperL said:
It's the GOP in the Senate and the WH who are too stupid, lazy and incompetent to put a plan on the table. How in the hell can you blame that on the Democrats? They got their part done weeks and weeks ago.

My goodness, the gaslighting on this is epic! And the GOP lemmings are actually buying it. Fascinating!
Click to expand...

And every day we get closer to the right's voters reaching what they call the "gag point" in the persuasion industries. Where you tell one lie too many and the rubes see through the charade. This can end badly for the propagandists.
 
CLAX1911 said:
Yes it's easy to blame Democrats they want to steal some of the money to pay for stupidity because that's what they do. They did it last time. They tried to hold it hostage to enforce the Communist New deal.

House Democrats have been trying to cause problems Donald Trump took office. That's all they do.
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So are you cool with trump requiring his FBI building across the street from his DC hotel for his participation? You know, the smaller, more expensive and completely disruptive to the operation of the FBI "solution" that from what I can see only benefits trumpco.
 
Jay59 said:
The states that are having serious funding shortfalls are almost all Democrat controlled, NY, NJ, MA, CA etc. Eviction/foreclosure relief is already being done at the state level. It's unnecessary for a federal bill.

The amount per week is a serious issue since over 2/3 of the people receiving are making more money not working than they did working, sometimes 3-4 times as much. For example, a teenager with a 15 hour a week after school job at a movie theater. That's not a hypothetical. When the Republicans say there is a disincentive to return to work, it's not spin.
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So are the theaters open?

There's this odd disconnect between conservative narrative and observable reality.

Where people are refusing to go back to work at jobs that do not exist because they are getiing (and spending into the economy) more than they made when they had that job that no longer exists.

And trumpfluenza is raging as we speak. It's gonna get worse before it gets better.

Do you see the disconnect?
 
Mycroft said:
Like I said...it's on Congress.

The Senate needs to negotiate with the House...not the WH.

Now...if those Congressmen in the House and Senate want to quibble over unrelated issues, that's also on Congress.

Me? I prefer Congress stick to the issues of stimulus and relief, but that's not how they operate.
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You don’t understand how it actually works. McConnell and the White House always agree first, then they go to the House. Because the White House and the Senate are both Republican controlled McConnell doesn’t want to make an agreement with the House and then have Trump make them start all over. Nothing wrong with that, it would be a waste of time.

The problem is that Trump has his own agenda. He wants an FBI building included that would prevent a new hotel being built to compete with his hotel and he also wants a payroll tax cut that would not help a single unemployed person but would put more than$30,000,000 in his own pocket. Neither Republicans nor Democrats in Congress want either of those to be in the relief bill.


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Mycroft said:
Trump haters may be unaware, but smart people who don't rely on the MSM to tell them what to think will know that it's not "The White House and Congress" that remain far from a deal. It's the Senate and the House. In other words, Congress.
Click to expand...

Four years ago he ran as a dealmaker and master negotiator. Now he's apparently an afterthought in the biggest negotiations happening in the nation.

His made-for-TV image has been exposed as a sad joke.
 
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