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Every Week, Every Month, Every Day Sweden Proves World Got It Wrong.

First, obviously you still avoid explaining your criteria for inclusion, regardless of your desire for dealing with "advanced economies". Canada has one of the highest GDP's per capita's (tax haven's and oil states excluded) in the world, but nothing like the size of China or the US economy. On the other hand, China's and Russia's per capita GDP mean or median does not come close to the others. If your list is based on size, then India and Brazil should be on the list, with China and Russia, not Canada. If its based on resources per person, then there are scores of European countries and several in Asia aside from Japan that are far richer than China or Russia.

Ergo, your apples and oranges list has zero "economically advanced" coherency - until you state a formal criteria for inclusion by GDP or GDP per person then its more than my opinion its crap, its a necessary conclusion.

Second, the ability to fight Covid isn't an issue; there is likely no large difference in ability to "fight" an infection that doesn't have a cure and whose major "treatment" is wearing a cloth over one's face or having a nurse tend to one's usual needs (oxygen, meals, etc.). More importantly, GDP is not so much as a variable for better resources because studies show the opposite - it's an associated variable that correlates with the disease; the higher a countries GDP the higher the case rate.

As I stated: your "list" could also have noted (were your sampling less arbitrary) that the US and France rank 10th/11th among deaths per million (Worldometer chart attached), far lower that the UK, Italy, Spain, etc. You could have also noted that the US ranks much lower in fatalities per case than most in western Europe, including Germany. In fact the US fatality rate per case is about 1/5th of that of other leading nations (see Attachment, World In Data).



I have no idea what you think your homebrew "corrections" by GDP even mean. My suggestion is that you stick to the variables widely examined and understood in the literature, not some pull it from your arse "finding".

And recovered is meaningless without knowing how a case is defined, who is tracked as a case, and how late the system is in providing resolved cases. As I demonstrated, a rate of 50 or 60 percent of "recovered" is epidemiological meaningless (e.g. the number for France).

Among the questions needing answered for EACH subject country and its method of counting:

- Are "cases" all positive tests, even for the same individual?
- Do "cases" mean anyone, with or without a doctor's supervision having a positive result on a test?
- Do "cases" include asymptomatic individuals?
- Do "cases" include symptomatic but untreated individuals?
- Do "cases" include those who see a doctor, have a positive test, and require no further treatment?
- Are "cases" defined as just "clinical cases", meaning those hospitalized and then discharged".

Without knowing whose counted, who is actually tracked, and who gets reported as "discharged" or "recovered" (a term used interchangeably but having different meanings) for each country under comparison, your spitting in the wind.

And the chances of an American picked at random having COVID, and therefore possibly dying has largely (but not always) about twice that of a Canadian. In fact, that has been true since March 15th when the infection exploded in the US NE but not so much in Canada. Within 10 days that gap opened up to 4 to 1 in infection rate...and rocketed away.

I have no idea what you think that means, other than from the outset the NE was plastered.

I give your position, which appears to be that it is totally impossible to prove anything at all about COVID-19 because we are not 100% absolutely positively certain that the statistics are 100% absolutely positively accurate and have taken absolutely 100% of all potential causative and/or ameliorative factors 100% into account with 100% precision and that means that the United States of America is doing better than any other country in the world in dealing with the so-called "COVID-19" so-called "pandemic", all the respect and consideration that it deserves.

20-08-01 C2 - 7 Day Average Chart.jpg

20-08-01 C3 - 10 Day Average of Averages.jpg

20-08-01 C5 - Mortality Index.JPG

20-08-01 A5 - COVID vs Other Causes.JPG
 
That is what I wrote, Sweden is lowering it's curve while the US has not yet, in fact the death rate is going up again. We do not know how much higher the death rate may get, but I hope it does not go any higher and instead goes down.

It will settle down here after Labor Day and kids are in school. People will stop traveling around so much. People are idiots about it. I know a woman who is retiring because she is afraid of COVID and the first thing she is going to do in retirement is go to Myrtle Effing Beach which is coronavirus central :doh If people had just skipped vacations this summer, we would be in a much better posture.
 
It will settle down here after Labor Day and kids are in school. People will stop traveling around so much. People are idiots about it. I know a woman who is retiring because she is afraid of COVID and the first thing she is going to do in retirement is go to Myrtle Effing Beach which is coronavirus central :doh If people had just skipped vacations this summer, we would be in a much better posture.

Well sadly people are idiots, and I am not sure kids being crammed into schools with no precautions is a wise thing to do. Kids will still spread the virus and catch it.
 
Well sadly people are idiots, and I am not sure kids being crammed into schools with no precautions is a wise thing to do. Kids will still spread the virus and catch it.

I don't support reopening schools in areas where the numbers are still growing, but it is happening. It should, however, contain the virus when people stop interacting with people from hotspots while at the beach or wherever. We should see a drop off, then a true second wave when cold and flu season get underway and then it will be business as we can until we have herd immunity or a more effective drug cocktail to nip it in the bud.
 
I don't support reopening schools in areas where the numbers are still growing, but it is happening. It should, however, contain the virus when people stop interacting with people from hotspots while at the beach or wherever. We should see a drop off, then a true second wave when cold and flu season get underway and then it will be business as we can until we have herd immunity or a more effective drug cocktail to nip it in the bud.

But the odds of outside infections is a lot lower. So the beach if you do not pack it to the hilt, well then it is not too terrible. But inside schools there is little chance of social distancing (if not done smartly). Especially vulnerable students and teachers are a huge problem.
 
But the odds of outside infections is a lot lower. So the beach if you do not pack it to the hilt, well then it is not too terrible. But inside schools there is little chance of social distancing (if not done smartly). Especially vulnerable students and teachers are a huge problem.

Myrtle Beach and the state of Florida seem to disprove the odds of outside infections being lower.
 
Myrtle Beach and the state of Florida seem to disprove the odds of outside infections being lower.

No, it is absolutely proven that the risks outside are lower, but you kinda seemed to ignore my comment of the beaches not being full to capacity/packed to the hilt. If you cram too many people in a very small area, even outside, it negates the benefits of being outside.
 
No, it is absolutely proven that the risks outside are lower, but you kinda seemed to ignore my comment of the beaches not being full to capacity/packed to the hilt. If you cram too many people in a very small area, even outside, it negates the benefits of being outside.

No you ignore the reality that people don't sit on a beach in some postcard vacuum. They check into hotels. They eat meals. They cram into the same parking lots. They drink at the same bars. They go to the same shops. They use the same bathrooms. Etc Etc Etc.
 
No you ignore the reality that people don't sit on a beach in some postcard vacuum. They check into hotels. They eat meals. They cram into the same parking lots. They drink at the same bars. They go to the same shops. They use the same bathrooms. Etc Etc Etc.

You only think about tourists, you do know that loads of locals also visit the beach? The whole reason why most of the rest of the world refuses US tourists is because they do not want them to be in hotels/bars/beaches/trains/planes/taxis/buses/etc. etc. etc. etc.

Nobody in the world wants to do this but needs must.

And still US travelers think they are above travel bans. In the Netherlands the US customs police (in our case the Military police or as we call it marchaussee) have sent back hundreds of American tourists who had flown to the Netherlands (Schiphol airport) who had the idea our border control would just let them in, they actually said as to the reason why they should be allowed in "Because we are Americans", well that did not fly with our border control and they were sent back to the US.
 
No you ignore the reality that people don't sit on a beach in some postcard vacuum. They check into hotels. They eat meals. They cram into the same parking lots. They drink at the same bars. They go to the same shops. They use the same bathrooms. Etc Etc Etc.

And slowly the herd immunity develops....just as it always has.
 
You only think about tourists, you do know that loads of locals also visit the beach? The whole reason why most of the rest of the world refuses US tourists is because they do not want them to be in hotels/bars/beaches/trains/planes/taxis/buses/etc. etc. etc. etc.

Nobody in the world wants to do this but needs must.

And still US travelers think they are above travel bans. In the Netherlands the US customs police (in our case the Military police or as we call it marchaussee) have sent back hundreds of American tourists who had flown to the Netherlands (Schiphol airport) who had the idea our border control would just let them in, they actually said as to the reason why they should be allowed in "Because we are Americans", well that did not fly with our border control and they were sent back to the US.

What you have to remember is that a substantial percentage of the American population think that the American constitution and American law are operative in every country in the world (and whatever "Those Foreigners" say the law and "constitutional rights" are has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with Americans).
 
You only think about tourists, you do know that loads of locals also visit the beach? The whole reason why most of the rest of the world refuses US tourists is because they do not want them to be in hotels/bars/beaches/trains/planes/taxis/buses/etc. etc. etc. etc.

Nobody in the world wants to do this but needs must.

And still US travelers think they are above travel bans. In the Netherlands the US customs police (in our case the Military police or as we call it marchaussee) have sent back hundreds of American tourists who had flown to the Netherlands (Schiphol airport) who had the idea our border control would just let them in, they actually said as to the reason why they should be allowed in "Because we are Americans", well that did not fly with our border control and they were sent back to the US.

Sure because those beaches are lined with hotels for locals :roll:
 
1) I make a claim, back it with a citation.
Actually, you made a claim without providing your source. You then cited a pseudoscience and conspiracy theory site as your source. It took multiple requests to get to a legitimate source on the quote -- which didn't quite say what you and your conspiracy buddies were claiming.

When information that conflicted your world-view was presented from your own sources -- e.g. the report which explicitly characterized social distancing and other mitigation and suppression methods as as effective -- you just ignored it and blundered on anyway.


No one, other than you, said "social distancing does not work at all" - its an intentional straw man...
lol

Dude, you've been saying it for a long time now.

But go ahead, tell us exactly what you think is and is not effective. Be specific, be precise. I have.


So cease all the babble and tripe over the report. The question is not whether or not the government efforts, taking effect when the virus threat was effectively over helped push down transmission further and I have no interest in turning this into a squabble over what a May 5 report said or didn't say regarding model assumptions....
lol... What a bunch of BS.

Even by your own sources, the virus threat in Norway was DEFINITELY NOT OVER. Any health authority who looked at the numbers right before March 12th and said "this is over, no need to lock down!" should be fired, because -- as I already showed you, in a chart that refutes your position and you want to ignore -- case numbers were rising fast in Norway at that time.

I might add, I'm not disagreeing with the claims IN HINDSIGHT made by Norway's health authorities, that "the [/i]most extreme measures[/i] turned out not to be necessary." Nor should they be faulted for applying them. In a pandemic, with a novel disease whose exact transmission vectors are still unknown, it is better to do more than to do less.

Now that they have a better idea of how the disease spreads, and the likely impact of various measures, and as long as the public is compliant with social distancing measures, I generally agree with them that hopefully they can avoid the most extreme measures if cases surge again.

That said, no one should be surprised that if rates rise too fast for contact tracing to work, they will need to implement broad lockdowns again.


That's all we need to know about Norway (oh, that and they don't support the use of masks, and they don't believe their measures were all that different from Swedens).
lol

I've already listed the differences. Try to keep up.

And as I believe I've told you before: Premature celebration is a bad idea. In fact, Norway is seeing a small increase in the number of cases per day. 2 weeks ago, it was 7 per day; now, it's 21 per day. While that is a fraction of their peak, and well within their capacity, it is still a trend in the wrong direction. Plus, yet again: With an incubation period of 14 days, those numbers are behind -- meaning it could be under control, or could be spreading more rapidly than today's numbers indicate.

And if it turns out that the numbers do continue to rise, it will almost certainly be because of government policies -- including expanding the maximum size of groups, not encouraging or mandating masks, and so on -- along with a lack of compliance and enforcement.

After all, that is exactly what we have seen in so many other places. All of the following (and many more) had a peak earlier in the year, and are now getting second waves. Care to explain?
- Belgium
- Spain
- Australia
- Japan
- Louisiana
- Colorado
- Hawaii

So go ahead. Enlighten us. Tell us exactly what you think works, and what doesn't.
 
What you have to remember is that a substantial percentage of the American population think that the American constitution and American law are operative in every country in the world (and whatever "Those Foreigners" say the law and "constitutional rights" are has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with Americans).

Without out covid19 any American here is welcome. I live close to a US and a NATO base. People necessary for those installations should be allowed to enter if they self quarantine if need be. But tourists need to go back home, we don't need to spread covid from the US after we did the hard work to lower the curve.
 
Sure because those beaches are lined with hotels for locals :roll:

You still do not get it do you, I was not talking about tourism but the fact remains that beaches are visited by local people too.
 
Without out covid19 any American here is welcome. I live close to a US and a NATO base. People necessary for those installations should be allowed to enter if they self quarantine if need be. But tourists need to go back home, we don't need to spread covid from the US after we did the hard work to lower the curve.

I know that you can do it for your own country quite easily, but I thought that you might be interested in seeing how "Europe As A Whole" compares with the US.

20-08-04 A1 - G8 + CHINA COVID.jpg

20-08-04 D2 - G8+China NORMALIZED.jpg

Over all (Table 1) the only area that Europe trails the US in is "Mortality Rate", but if you look at "DEATH CHANCE vs USA" you can see that an European picked at random has 56.92% of the chance of dying from COVID-19 than an American picked at random has.

Over all (Table 2) the areas where Europe lags the US are "NORMALIZED TOTAL DEATHS", "NORMALIZED TOTAL DEATHS (Percentage of US)", and "NORMALIZED RECOVERED", however it does surpass the US in "NORMALIZED RECOVERED" and "NORMALIZED RECOVERED (Percentage)"

In short, in Europe, like in Canada, you are more likely to die if you catch COVID-19 than you are in the US, but your chances of catching COVID-19 are so much lower in Europe and Canada than they are in the US that the balance swings against the US.
 
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