• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Texas is now in a World of Hurt

Casper said:
BS.
The motorcycle accident claim has already been debunked, it was not list as a virus death, just that he tested positive. Stop repeating lies.
Click to expand...

The point of the post was to demonstrate that the poster posted a lie.

I merely posted a link.

The lie posted by the poster was that the president said that more testing causes more deaths.

In any event, the doctor from the hospital that was interviewed said:
<snip>
“I don’t think so. I have to double-check,” Pino said when asked if the fatality had been removed from the death count. “We were arguing, discussing, or trying to argue with the state. Not because of the numbers ⁠— it’s 100 … it doesn’t make any difference if it's 99 ⁠— but the fact that the individual didn’t die from COVID-19 … died in the crash. But you could actually argue that it could have been the COVID-19 that caused him to crash. I don’t know the conclusion of that one.”
<snip>

He also says that a change of 1 digit in the stat makes no difference.

None of that changes the reality that the USA is paying hospitals a bonus for Covid cases and patients placed on breathing machines.

If hospitals were penalized instead of rewarded for Covid Admissions, I think we'd see a dramatic fall off in recorded Covid Deaths.

In this particular case, the case was added in then subtracted out. The actual, real world reality for this patient did not change due to being classified one way or the other. The hospital lost $12,000 as a result.
 
Last edited:
MTAtech said:
Can you please post the link and pull quote that demonstrates that what you have posted to not be a bold faced LIE?
Coronavirus (COVID-19) Testing - Statistics and Research - Our World in Data
The idea that more testing means more confirmed cases is B.S. I heard an expert yesterday state that in the U.S., every 13th test is positive. In Germany, it's every 250th case.

The US policy of paying hospitals a bonus when they admit a Covid patient is likely what is driving the high Covid death rate.
Recent legislation pays hospitals higher Medicare rates for COVID-19 patients and treatment, but there is no evidence of fraudulent reporting.

If you have been to a hospital recently, you know that there is not charge too small and no fee too big to be claimed by our healthcare system. ;)
That's been true for a long time. What's your point?
Click to expand...

Don't you just hate it when a poster changes your words for no other reason than to change the meaning and then posts them as if they have not been changed?
 
year2late said:
All I need to point out is Oklahoma was starting a surge before his Tulsa Rally. The fact that the now infected Governor Stitt of Oklahoma was happy to have the rally speaks to the total top down leader ship that we have.

The rally was in a state with with increases in cases . It was irresponsible of him to have a large indoor event with no social distancing and no masks required . Lack of leadership. How are people who are on the fence of what is responsible behavior....to take the whole mask and social distancing thing seriously when our own POTUS trivializes it by his actions?

We need leadership. A leader that cared about his own citizens does not hold a indoor event with no social distancing and no masked requirements. Instead, we get a snake oil salesman that has repeatedly lied about this pandemic and put his experts in a bad position with contradicting their science #firefauci
Click to expand...

With the greatest respect, if the President wanted to fire Fauci or otherwise remove him from the position of authority that he holds, it would already have been done.

It amazes me that so much of reality must be ignored to hold the Liberal position in all of this that reality can no longer exists for that do so.

The President is an optimist. Always was. Quite likely, always will be.

The Tulsa rally may have been a problem and may not have been a problem. Is there a study that traces the cases rising from that rally?

Right now, deaths in Oklahoma are running at about 0.2% which is better than the national average.

COVID-19 | Oklahoma State Department of Health |
 
code1211 said:
With the greatest respect, if the President wanted to fire Fauci or otherwise remove him from the position of authority that he holds, it would already have been done.

It amazes me that so much of reality must be ignored to hold the Liberal position in all of this that reality can no longer exists for that do so.

The President is an optimist. Always was. Quite likely, always will be.

The Tulsa rally may have been a problem and may not have been a problem. Is there a study that traces the cases rising from that rally?

Right now, deaths in Oklahoma are running at about 0.2% which is better than the national average.

COVID-19 | Oklahoma State Department of Health |
Click to expand...

The President with his "firefauci#" crap was attempting to undermining the message of Fauci when we are in the middle of a pandemic. This was done likely to throw meat to supporters, intimidate Fauci - to try to get him to tone down his message, and also just having a tantrum over someone contradicting him (typical ignorant bully tactic)

The fact that Trump got thousands of people to attend a non socially distanced rally indoors without masks in an area that was starting to increase cases shows how much he has likely undermined the message of the epidemiologists.
 
Trump is not an optimist, he's a fantasist and fabulist. Being unable to distinguish between them is a problem.
 
I have TDS. It's rapidly spreading in Texas.
 
code1211 said:
With the greatest respect, if the President wanted to fire Fauci or otherwise remove him from the position of authority that he holds, it would already have been done.

It amazes me that so much of reality must be ignored to hold the Liberal position in all of this that reality can no longer exists for that do so.

The President is an optimist. Always was. Quite likely, always will be.

The Tulsa rally may have been a problem and may not have been a problem. Is there a study that traces the cases rising from that rally?

Right now, deaths in Oklahoma are running at about 0.2% which is better than the national average.

COVID-19 | Oklahoma State Department of Health |
Click to expand...
They are now rising and depending on how people comply it will continue to rise or slowly start dropping.

Oklahoma Coronavirus Map and Case Count - The New York Times
 
calamity said:
Present some facts then.
Click to expand...
To "present facts" presupposes the ability to recognize them, a condition not in evidence. Moreover, one has to have the desire to be factual, or at least present the appearance of being so, also not apparent. When one just wants to distort, disrupt, deflect and deceive, facts are a hindrance.
 
year2late said:
The President with his "firefauci#" crap was attempting to undermining the message of Fauci when we are in the middle of a pandemic. This was done likely to throw meat to supporters, intimidate Fauci - to try to get him to tone down his message, and also just having a tantrum over someone contradicting him (typical ignorant bully tactic)

The fact that Trump got thousands of people to attend a non socially distanced rally indoors without masks in an area that was starting to increase cases shows how much he has likely undermined the message of the epidemiologists.
Click to expand...

As is the case with many of your assertions, this one is also ridiculous.

Dr. Fauci has a point of view based on his very narrow goals.

I have posted here before that making national economic policy based only on Covid-19 considerations is like allowing the cleaning lady to dictate the production policies for a manufacturing company.

Dr. Fauci does what a doctor does. INCORPORATING his views and suggestions into an overall policy is wise and that is what the President has done/is doing.

The current drive to shut down the economy is stupid. The goal to "Flatten the Curve" has been achieved. Continued panic driven stupidity aimed at curtailing the economy is political, not medical.

Here in Indiana, the total Covid deaths (that may also be attributable to other causes) total 2,794. En toto, that's about 0.04%. 225 of those deaths occurred in the age group 59 years and younger. About 0.004%. 1 in 28,000.

This the biggest part of the group(s) that go to work or go to school. This is also the group(s) that took away grampa's keys.

To help put this into perspective, the rate of deaths due to traffic accidents in Indiana during 2019, 858, was 1 in 7,342. Driving appears to be about 4 times as deadly as Covid.

It is wise to be aware of risk. It is stupid to overreact to risk. Causing more than 50 million people nationally to lose their jobs due to this is a panic driven stupidity.

We are being moved to action as a mob of idiots by the press pursuing the obvious goal of destroying the country.

ISDH - Novel Coronavirus: Novel Coronavirus (COVID-19)
 
Last edited:
code1211 said:
There is a vague and undefined hate for the President that I feel is engendered by the propagandists in our media.

It goes along the same lines as racial bias and hate for enemies in time of war. Bias confirmation is one of the tools.

The President is not a gifted word crafter. Churchill's words were like poetic symphonies of hope and resolution relaying aspiration with inspiration. Churchill was British. The President is American.

The Covid response is being run locally in each state by each governor. The President has promised them support. Experts working at the national level have said that the president has given them EVERYTHING they have asked for.

No Governor has been denied anything they asked for. Progress is being made on the vaccine and the therapies and the Regulatory Red Tape that would have slowed this down has been burnt away by the President.

Perhaps your dad was a Churchillean communicator. My dad was more like the President. The great thing about him was that if you asked his opinion, you got an answer. Sometimes that answer was disturbing.

I prefer a straight answer that reveals the actual situation. I also like a little humor and hope. I also prefer the strongest possible effort to correct what ails me. This President has provided all of these. So did my dad.
Click to expand...

Trump is an ignorant clown and he demonstrates that every time he opens his mouth. Did you happen to see the Axios interview? I'd be embarrassed to admit that idiot is my president.

Watch President Trump's Axios interview - CNN Video

150,000 deaths? "It is what it is". Donald J. Trump.
 
Last edited:
code1211 said:
It's interesting that you prefer the propaganda from the NYT to the facts from the Oklahoma State Department of Health.
Click to expand...

You want some more sources, I doubt it, but they are all out there.

Oklahoma sits right next to Texas and DFW, it was going to spread since people travel back and forth all the time. OK is now one of the States with rising cases and hospitalizations whether you want to admit it or not, the virus does not care if you believe in it, in fact it works better for spreading if you don't. A Harvard study has suggested that 12 States back up and shutdown more until the spike is dealt with, Texas and Oklahoma are both on the list, along with several midwestern states where it is now starting to rise, as logic would suggest it would.

Thing is until we all do the right thing this pandemic will not be stopped or controlled and the longer that our economy gets damaged. Going to be a long year, with a lot more pain and suffering, deaths and economic damage and sadly what is missing is true leadership, not a good combination.



Yesterday more than 50,000 more daily cases were reported across the Nation.
 
Again......where would you put them. They were being refused placement everywhere. Hospitals were overflowing with acute patients needing acute care. These patients were post acute.
Click to expand...
Actually, hospitals were empty, but they thought they would be filled up. They weren't.
 
code1211 said:
It's interesting that you prefer the propaganda from the NYT to the facts from the Oklahoma State Department of Health.
Click to expand...

Republican states have been under-reporting for months.
 
Casper said:
You want some more sources, I doubt it, but they are all out there.

Oklahoma sits right next to Texas and DFW, it was going to spread since people travel back and forth all the time. OK is now one of the States with rising cases and hospitalizations whether you want to admit it or not, the virus does not care if you believe in it, in fact it works better for spreading if you don't. A Harvard study has suggested that 12 States back up and shutdown more until the spike is dealt with, Texas and Oklahoma are both on the list, along with several midwestern states where it is now starting to rise, as logic would suggest it would.

Thing is until we all do the right thing this pandemic will not be stopped or controlled and the longer that our economy gets damaged. Going to be a long year, with a lot more pain and suffering, deaths and economic damage and sadly what is missing is true leadership, not a good combination.



Yesterday more than 50,000 more daily cases were reported across the Nation.
Click to expand...

The good news is the number of cases of Oklahoma and the rest of the US are trending a bit downward. Hopefully this means more people are being precautious in the face of rising cases in a variety of states. Whether the downward trend is sustainable is another question, but I do think it is if people follow the guidelines and things reopen more carefully. Looking at it regionally, I hope the rest of the country can get to where the northeast is now. I'm keeping an eye out on the numbers here in NJ and the rest of the tristate area because there's been a bit of an uptick.
 
code1211 said:
As is the case with many of your assertions, this one is also ridiculous.

Dr. Fauci has a point of view based on his very narrow goals.

I have posted here before that making national economic policy based only on Covid-19 considerations is like allowing the cleaning lady to dictate the production policies for a manufacturing company.

Dr. Fauci does what a doctor does. INCORPORATING his views and suggestions into an overall policy is wise and that is what the President has done/is doing.

The current drive to shut down the economy is stupid. The goal to "Flatten the Curve" has been achieved. Continued panic driven stupidity aimed at curtailing the economy is political, not medical.

Here in Indiana, the total Covid deaths (that may also be attributable to other causes) total 2,794. En toto, that's about 0.04%. 225 of those deaths occurred in the age group 59 years and younger. About 0.004%. 1 in 28,000.

This the biggest part of the group(s) that go to work or go to school. This is also the group(s) that took away grampa's keys.

To help put this into perspective, the rate of deaths due to traffic accidents in Indiana during 2019, 858, was 1 in 7,342. Driving appears to be about 4 times as deadly as Covid.

It is wise to be aware of risk. It is stupid to overreact to risk. Causing more than 50 million people nationally to lose their jobs due to this is a panic driven stupidity.

We are being moved to action as a mob of idiots by the press pursuing the obvious goal of destroying the country.

ISDH - Novel Coronavirus: Novel Coronavirus (COVID-19)
Click to expand...

And our POTUS is not incorporating Fauci's expert recomendations on a regular basis. He may not be doing #firefauci any more, but his own words and actions go against common sense recommendations of Dr Fauci.

Again.......we should have been pushed top down to wear masks, distance, stay away from crowds, practice hand (etc) hygiene. That was the way for our leader to show us what we could do. What we got was "liberate" ...and calls to attend huge indoor rallies without need for masks or distancing.

We should have been doing this MONTHS ago with top down leadership. He (and we) blew it . We could have been "open" back in June if he (and we) had done our part with the simple measures.
But instead.....we need to start now and all we get bad and worse choices.
 
year2late said:
And our POTUS is not incorporating Fauci's expert recomendations on a regular basis. He may not be doing #firefauci any more, but his own words and actions go against common sense recommendations of Dr Fauci.

Again.......we should have been pushed top down to wear masks, distance, stay away from crowds, practice hand (etc) hygiene. That was the way for our leader to show us what we could do. What we got was "liberate" ...and calls to attend huge indoor rallies without need for masks or distancing.

We should have been doing this MONTHS ago with top down leadership. He (and we) blew it . We could have been "open" back in June if he (and we) had done our part with the simple measures.
But instead.....we need to start now and all we get bad and worse choices.
Click to expand...

The demoralization of Dr. Fauci is probably one of the more successful efforts of fooling rubes I have seen since they convinced the idiots to vote for Trump.
 
code1211 said:
So your belief is that it's not what it is?

You must be a Liberal!
Click to expand...

Oh please; your idiot in chief just gave the most cringeworthy, ignorant and inept interview I have ever seen from someone purporting to be a world leader. How can anyone possibly defend such stupidity?
 
Casper said:
You want some more sources, I doubt it, but they are all out there.

Oklahoma sits right next to Texas and DFW, it was going to spread since people travel back and forth all the time. OK is now one of the States with rising cases and hospitalizations whether you want to admit it or not, the virus does not care if you believe in it, in fact it works better for spreading if you don't. A Harvard study has suggested that 12 States back up and shutdown more until the spike is dealt with, Texas and Oklahoma are both on the list, along with several midwestern states where it is now starting to rise, as logic would suggest it would.

Thing is until we all do the right thing this pandemic will not be stopped or controlled and the longer that our economy gets damaged. Going to be a long year, with a lot more pain and suffering, deaths and economic damage and sadly what is missing is true leadership, not a good combination.



Yesterday more than 50,000 more daily cases were reported across the Nation.
Click to expand...

What is "the right thing" and why have you held it as a secret over the last six months?

How much of the The Constitution do you propose be vaporized by the President to implement whatever programs you feel are needed and that you are keeping secret?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom