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Herd Immunity May Be The Best Solution

Jay59 said:
They certainly were not hit earliest. That was Washington, specifically Seattle.

I will admit, New York likely did the poorest job of using science to guide their attempts to control the spread, which resulted in them being hit hardest. However, that does not make me think that 2/3 of the population has been exposed and developed immunity.
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So what makes you think NY did a poor job?
 
JackA said:
Like saying the way to escape a burning house is not out a first floor window but by walking through the part that's on fire.

This virus is airborne. You get sick by inhaling air that has been contaminated by the exhaled breath of a nearby sick person. It's about that complicated. Therefore, it is no great trick on mother nature to avoid this by keeping your distance from people or by them watching out for you by wearing a covering over their mouths that impedes their exhaled breath. This is the "natural law", to borrow your term, of common sense.
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No matter how you try to slice and dice it, the situation we have today is that society has raised an absolute bunch of whiners who were told they are special and are entitled to their hearts desires and can have whatever it is they desire including living ell into their nineties. Those who are dying are primarily people who are on that age group and your side conveniently ignores this fact. If someone like me points out the obvious you object and say “you just want Granny to die”. The debate can’t be based on emotion.
 
PIPEWRENCH said:
Millions of protesters in crowded conditions all across this country for days, weeks, even months now are spreading this virus across this country. I can't make it any more simple for you. Then when you tell people that crowded conditions does not spread this disease even more people go out and spread the disease at the beaches etc. This is not how you stop the spread of this virus. That is the bottom line.
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I was being a little facetious when I asked if you didn't understand because I thought we were having a discussion about semantics.

But, now I'm not sure we're on the same page.

Yeah.
Stay at home whenever you can.
Wear a masks when you go out.
Wash your hands.
 
Ginger Ale said:
If that's your son's only solution I don't think he should be a paramedic.

Listen, this has to be a cooperative effort. There are a lot of countries that have done this successfully. We aren't new to this anymore. Your son has this problem because America can't pull together a cooperative effort to limit COVID virus-like other countries have. We now know it IS in our control and we are just refusing to TAKE control. Big difference.

Your post is childish to me. Big pants are needed and all we have is baby diapers.

If this current information is true we aren't getting herd immunity, we are just killing a bunch of people continuously. Do you think America can afford to be cut off from most of the world forever? Do you think we can keep killing doctors and nurses, and paramedics forever? How do you think that's going to pan out?
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We were denied acquisition of herd immunity BECAUSE of masks and distancing and shutting down. Fauci is a fool And so is the CDC and the WHO.
 
digitusmedius said:
I always enjoy how the Cult of Dirtbag likes to appoint itself the "decider" for how other people do their work and what they get paid while they sit on their asses and bitch.
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Don’t talk about yourself that way.
 
Moderate Right said:
You said you only called Trump a dirtbag and I pointed out that you also called Trump supporters dirtbags. Is this your example of the left's tolerance of others?
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More and more people are starting to really see the "tolerance" from the left, who would have "thunk" this

Bari Weiss quits New York Times after bullying by colleagues over views: '''They have called me a Nazi and a racist''' | Fox News

That so called free press is the media arm of today's Radical Democratic Party
 
Paradoxical said:
Don’t talk about yourself that way.
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LOL. Put a fork in yourself. You're done. (Apologies if you really are the 8 year old that comment sounds like it came from; I don't like to think I'd be hurting a child's feelings).
 
Moderate Right said:
You said you only called Trump a dirtbag and I pointed out that you also called Trump supporters dirtbags. Is this your example of the left's tolerance of others?
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Oh, that old whine about meanie lefties not tolerating the racism, lying and general disgustingness of rightwing cultists of Dirtbag. It's not our fault you created this stereotype of us and now can't handle the truth about who you are. When will you people stop blaming liberals for your failures and self-inflicted misery? BTW, you claimed I called you Trumpers dirtbags and have not yet shown any evidence. So until you do that's going to have be yet another one of your lies.
 
Jay59 said:
Only in the cult world of Trump haters.

New York followed the political narrative and has the death totals to show for it. If 2/3 of the NY population has already been exposed and processed the virus, that is because of incompetence. Florida did much better and has the medical statistics to prove it.
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this post is 3 clown shoes stupid

well done!
 
Jay59 said:
The Grim Reaper. Compare the results of any state with no common border.
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That doesn’t tell the story. The virus really came to NY from Europe, not Asia, and as I pointed out to another poster JFK has by far the most flight operations to/from Europe of any place in the US and JFK and EWR combined have more daily flights to/from Europe than the next 5 or 6 airports combined.

We get 30,000 European travelers in NY on average every single day. You can not compare that vector with anything else in the country.

Additionally NYC is far and away the most densely populated city in the country - 28,000+ people per square mile. It’s half again as dense as number 2 San Francisco.

All those infected infected people coming to a city where crowding both inside and outside is the norm. Is it any wonder so many people got sick?

There was nothing NYS could have done about either.
 
Paradoxical said:
No matter how you try to slice and dice it, the situation we have today is that society has raised an absolute bunch of whiners who were told they are special and are entitled to their hearts desires and can have whatever it is they desire including living ell into their nineties. Those who are dying are primarily people who are on that age group and your side conveniently ignores this fact. If someone like me points out the obvious you object and say “you just want Granny to die”. The debate can’t be based on emotion.
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LMAO, Granny, like our president doesn't fit into that category, so does the V.P. and 1/2 of our senate and congress. I guess they can be replaced with some young and healthy enough to survive years of Covids lashing. When they develop pre-existing conditions from a harsh bout of COVID then they can be replaced the following year. Haha, yeah, that sounds way easier than limiting the spread.

Is that how you see our future playing out?
 
Gaius46 said:
That doesn’t tell the story. The virus really came to NY from Europe, not Asia, and as I pointed out to another poster JFK has by far the most flight operations to/from Europe of any place in the US and JFK and EWR combined have more daily flights to/from Europe than the next 5 or 6 airports combined. We get 30,000 European travelers in NY on average every single day. You can not compare that vector with anything else in the country. Additionally NYC is far and away the most densely populated city in the country - 28,000+ people per square mile. It’s half again as dense as number 2 San Francisco. All those infected infected people coming to a city where crowding both inside and outside is the norm. Is it any wonder so many people got sick? There was nothing NYS could have done about either.
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You say the medical data doesn't tell the story, but you don't show better medical numbers. Instead you mention statistical irrelevancies. Have you any scientific numbers that show why the obvious answer--incompetent local government-- is not the real answer?

noonereal said:
this post is 3 clown shoes stupid well done!
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From you, that's genuine praise. If you had agreed, I might have reconsidered.
 
Paradoxical said:
We were denied acquisition of herd immunity BECAUSE of masks and distancing and shutting down. Fauci is a fool And so is the CDC and the WHO.
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You were denied acquisition of herd immunity because you can't achieve it with COVID. At best it lasts 3 months, at worst a couple of weeks. Those who got it in January can now get it again.

The best solution is to limit the spread and put out small fires. That takes lockdowns, testing, and tracing (for real), and location monitoring with everyone onboard whether they like it or not. There is NO GOOD SOLUTION. There is only the solution that works to take COVID down to such a small number Americans can function normally. That's it. Otherwise, it's your scenario which is impossible. Living with COVID is impossible, we will ruin everything, be stuck here with borders shut. We can't do it.

All of this right now is just a huge waste of time and it's only making it harder to do what we NEED to do to live a normal life eventually.
 
Jay59 said:
You say the medical data doesn't tell the story, but you don't show better medical numbers. Instead you mention statistical irrelevancies. Have you any scientific numbers that show why the obvious answer--incompetent local government-- is not the real answer?


From you, that's genuine praise. If you had agreed, I might have reconsidered.
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What do you think the numbers I posted mean?
They aren’t “statistical irrelevancies” they are explanations as to why NYC was hit so hard and Grand Rapids. wasn’t. And if you give it 5 minutes worth of thought the point would be crystal clear as to why.

Or do you seriously harbor the misconception that the virus would be introduced and spread on Grand Rapids as it was in NYC?
 
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Ginger Ale said:
You were denied acquisition of herd immunity because you can't achieve it with COVID. At best it lasts 3 months, at worst a couple of weeks. Those who got it in January can now get it again.

The best solution is to limit the spread and put out small fires. That takes lockdowns, testing, and tracing (for real), and location monitoring with everyone onboard whether they like it or not. There is NO GOOD SOLUTION. There is only the solution that works to take COVID down to such a small number Americans can function normally. That's it. Otherwise, it's your scenario which is impossible. Living with COVID is impossible, we will ruin everything, be stuck here with borders shut. We can't do it.

All of this right now is just a huge waste of time and it's only making it harder to do what we NEED to do to live a normal life eventually.
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The only problem with your plan is you have 2 parties that are lying to the people who trust in them. Their followers will die literally rather than accept the facts.
 
Gaius46 said:
What do you think the numbers I posted mean?
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Since you did not provide any information regarding the relevance and and application of the numbers, that is a germane question. My first inclination is to say that you re just repeating something you heard and have no idea yourself. In any event, there are other cities with more size, denser populations and busier airports. You should have used them as comparisons.

They aren’t “statistical irrelevancies” they are explanations as to why NYC was hit so hard and Grand Rapids. wasn’t. And if you give it 5 minutes worth of thought the point would be crystal clear as to why.
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But not why New York was so much harder hit than Mexico City, Rio, Cairo, Karachi, Paris, Los Angeles.

Or do you seriously harbor the misconception that the virus would be introduced and spread on Grand Rapids as it was in NYC?
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Now you are being silly. Compare like to like.
 
digitusmedius said:
Oh, that old whine about meanie lefties not tolerating the racism, lying and general disgustingness of rightwing cultists of Dirtbag. It's not our fault you created this stereotype of us and now can't handle the truth about who you are. When will you people stop blaming liberals for your failures and self-inflicted misery? BTW, you claimed I called you Trumpers dirtbags and have not yet shown any evidence. So until you do that's going to have be yet another one of your lies.
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so, you're saying that in your tolerance of others it's ok to call Trump and his supporters dirtbags.
 
Jay59 said:
Since you did not provide any information regarding the relevance and and application of the numbers, that is a germane question. My first inclination is to say that you re just repeating something you heard and have no idea yourself. In any event, there are other cities with more size, denser populations and busier airports. You should have used them as comparisons.


But not why New York was so much harder hit than Mexico City, Rio, Cairo, Karachi, Paris, Los Angeles.


Now you are being silly. Compare like to like.
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There are no cities in the United States more densely populated than NYC. Los Angeles for the record has one quarter the population density of NY.

There are certainly international cities more densely populated than NY. Why they weren’t hit as bad as NY to date I cannot answer for you without research that I don’t have time to do right now.

There are no cities in the United States that get even a third of the European air traffic as the NY. And as mentioned the N.Y. strain of Covid arose in Europe, not Asia.

It should be relatively self explanatory why those numbers are important but in case it isn’t obvious - having 30,000 European visitors a day entering the city means that hundreds, maybe as many as a thousand infected people entered the city every single day for a couple of months at least. Given the close proximity of people there those infected people could easily spread the virus to hundreds or thousands of other people each day. High population density exacerbated by buildings with lots of people in them that share environmental systems is pretty by definition the perfect place for airborne disease spread. There is no place in this country that is even remotely close to NYC in that regard.
 
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