Children Going Back To School This Fall

ReubenSherr said:

Or...the opposite...

Democrats need schools closed, so parents can't go to work, the economy can bottom out, and everyone can vote Biden out of frustration

I'd go with the second statement

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Jesus Christ. Give it a rest will you?

Taylor said:

You can't shut off the water fountains (at least not in my state). The district has made this explicit. Use is to be "severely limited" and kids will be "strongly encouraged" to bring water from home.

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Sure you can if it's a health risk just like you can shut them off if the water is contaminated.

Taylor said:

How many kids without underlying health conditions have contracted COVID at school and died as a result?

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1. The problem with CoVid is not necessarily about death. There appears to be some serious, long-term side effects associated CoVid, and these side affects have been seen in children.

Children face risk for severe complications and death from COVID-19: Most of the children admitted to pediatric intensive care units had underlying conditions -- ScienceDaily

Coronavirus in Babies & Kids

Doctors Warn of COVID-19 Related Illness in Children – NBC Connecticut

2. You and I are seeing this slightly differently with the division largely over the extent to which children can be carriers.

My concern is rooted in the notion that kids will spread the virus. If so, taking them to/fr school will lead to more deaths then drunk driving.... and the individual student would be as lethal (actually more) than a drunk driver... not necessarily to them, but to someone downstream. Again, that is based on the notion that social interaction leads to CoVid being spread. The way to control the virus and reduce its consequences is to slow the spread; increasing the spread increases death (other horrible side effects)

You, OTH, believe that children are not spreaders. In which case their participation in school is not furthering the disease. Thanks to your challenge, I did see some evidence that perhaps children are not spreaders.

Children are not COVID-19 super spreaders: time to go back to school | Archives of Disease in Childhood

But, you used the term that the notion that children are spreaders has been "debunked". I don't think one study, however, overcomes generally accepted belief that a hyper-contagious disease will not be spread by school children.

The BMJ study is interesting. I am just not ready to accept it as truth. There are many articles, studies and conventional wisdom that say otherwise:

The silent young spreaders: Lots of asymptomatic kids among COVID-19 cases | The Times of Israel

Half of coronavirus disease cases could be caused by ‘silent spreaders’

'Silent spreaders' may be responsible for half of U.S. COVID-19 cases, study finds | CTV News

Study finds silent transmission could be responsible for half of COVID-19 cases - ABC7 Los Angeles

https://www.thieme-connect.com/products/ejournals/pdf/10.1055/s-0040-1713725.pdf

Perhaps the BMJ study is correct. Given there is an out-of-control deadly pandemic occurring where we really don't fully understand the virus, nor the consequences of contracting the virus, I question whether its prudent to accept one study over conventional wisdom.

To be clear, I am not arguing that we should not return to school nor arguing in favor of it. You raised an interesting point (except that you overstated it). I always enjoy when I learn something on an issue, and you forced me to do that.

I think there will be a lot of online and homeschooling this year. Parents taking shifts, etc. If the child is over 12, they can easily stay home and go to online school. Those who cannot will go to school and a lot of teachers and staff are going to get it. I wonder if a lot of older teachers or teaches with underlying conditions will skip it this year. I would. How scary. I bet there will be a few deaths announced in school this season. Yikes.

Looks like Trump is going to make sure America is shut off from the rest of the world for a long, long time.

Rawley said:

Children are a high risk group for complications from flu, but this doesn't seem to be the case for COVID-19 — few children have been hospitalized with the new coronavirus.

How does the new coronavirus compare with the flu? | Live Science


Even though the reported number of deaths during the 2017-2018 flu season was 187, CDC’s mathematical models that account for the underreporting of flu-related deaths in children estimate the actual number was closer to 600.
Children & Influenza (Flu) | CDC

AS compared to Coronavirus - 26 deaths through June 16.

Coronavirus: COVID Deaths in U.S. by Age, Race | American Council on Science and Health

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Rawley, I do appreciate your response.

Maybe I wasn't clear what I wanted to say is that at this point in time no one really knows how susceptible children are to COVID-19. Are they just as likely to catch the virus as any age group? We might not have had enough children exposed to know? Or maybe we have. Children like adults over 60 haven't been out in public all that much.

Also, I don't know how anyone would know what the longterm complications of children having had the virus might be. It may take a while to know, as children develop.

Interestingly, medical professionals and scientists are just now beginning to see issues with what they now call long haulers, adults who have "recovered" over at least 100 days ago. Some people are complaining of symptoms that mimic or could be fibromyalgia. What issues might children have and at what age ranges? I don't think anyone knows yet.

OrphanSlug said:

This is Trump... he needs schools open, so he can have people working, for the hope of an economy he can run on for a 2nd term.

If a few people are killed along the way, including kids, Trump and his “pro-life” supporters will cheer anyway.

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While you're happy to let them stay locked down at home. Committing suicide due to the depression rates and slowly degrading their living conditions till they wish they were dead?

upsideguy said:

1. The problem with CoVid is not necessarily about death. There appears to be some serious, long-term side effects associated CoVid, and these side affects have been seen in children.

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Yes, however the chances of a healthy kid having a case of COVID severe enough to land them into ICU where these "severe complications" were found, is very remote - on par with lots of other respiratory illnesses for which we don't shut schools down:

severe COVID-19 is as rare as many other serious infection syndromes in children that do not cause schools to be closed. Individualised risk assessment and decision-making by clinicians should occur for those considered at exceptional risk (such as in immediately after bone marrow transplant) or where there are other older family members at significant risk.

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upsideguy said:

You, OTH, believe that children are not spreaders. In which case their participation in school is not furthering the disease. Thanks to your challenge, I did see some evidence that perhaps children are not spreaders.

Children are not COVID-19 super spreaders: time to go back to school | Archives of Disease in Childhood

But, you used the term that the notion that children are spreaders has been "debunked". I don't think one study, however, overcomes generally accepted belief that a hyper-contagious disease will not be spread by school children.

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I haven't made the claim that children can't be spreaders - just that they are much less likely to catch the virus from others, and much less likely to transmit the virus to others.

The "debunked" claim was related to the fear that children were "super spreaders" - there is no evidence thus far to support this claim, and lots of evidence to suggest it's not true.

There was no confirmed virus transmission in a school setting from the six cases to the 1,155 child and adult contacts, according to the research published in the journal Eurosurveillance.

Even 'high risk' activities such as choir practice and playing woodwind instruments failed to cause a single transmitted case.

Children are typically superspreaders of viruses but experts from the HSE believe that this is not the case with Covid-19.

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Children 'are not super-spreaders of Covid-19' | Daily Mail Online
https://www.eurosurveillance.org/co...020.25.21.2000903;?crawler=true#html_fulltext (published article)

Children are neither highly susceptible to COVID-19 nor the super-spreaders people feared they might be, according to mounting research.
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The reason the impact on children has been so surprising is that it does not follow the typical pattern of seasonal influenza in which children are often severely affected and can act as “super-spreaders,” said Le Saux. With seasonal flu, schools often become epicentres of infection and children bring it home to their parents and grandparents.
It does not appear that way so far with COVID,” said Le Saux. “The epidemiology appears different.

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Children do not appear to be COVID-19 'super-spreaders' | Ottawa Citizen

Children are not substantially contributing to the spread of Covid-19 in their households or in schools, according to the Health Information and Quality Authority (Hiqa).

Its findings in analysis of latest global research are likely to inform the National Public Health Emergency Team’s position on re-opening schools, particularly at primary level.

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No evidence children are Covid-19 ‘super spreaders’, says Hiqa

Data on viral loads were scarce, but indicated that children may have lower levels than adults, partly because they often have fewer symptoms, and this should decrease the transmission risk. Household transmission studies showed that children were rarely the index case and case studies suggested that children with COVID‐19 seldom caused outbreaks.
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Children are unlikely to be the main drivers of the pandemic. Opening up schools and kindergartens is unlikely to impact COVID‐19 mortality rates in older people.

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https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/apa.15371

Parents are going to have to feel very safe before they'll send their kids to school.


The government hasn't proven very trustworthy.

I'm much more worried about the parents and teachers who are at risk. My mother is a teacher, and she's at an age where covid can be pretty dangerous. She doesn't want to go back given the current situation, and if she could retire right now she would.

Oborosen said:

While you're happy to let them stay locked down at home. Committing suicide due to the depression rates and slowly degrading their living conditions till they wish they were dead?

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This is your response? First it was coronavirus is not spreading anymore, that ended up false and then it was deaths from has not spiked yet, vote it still out on that one and now we are talking about depression and suicide. Is this not what Trump was using as an argument back around April?

OrphanSlug said:

This is your response? First it was coronavirus is not spreading anymore, that ended up false and then it was deaths from has not spiked yet, vote it still out on that one and now we are talking about depression and suicide. Is this not what Trump was using as an argument back around April?

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While you somehow decided it was fine to flout the lives of others, even children no less. Just to make the assumption that Trump is willing to bargain their lives for his own election chances.
The man is most assuredly a dick, but I know that he's not "That" much of a dick.

My post merely played by the same rules that you set.

I don't really care about what Trump was talking about back in April. The issue being that we need to get some sense of normalcy back into the operation of the country.
Maintain social standards of distancing and viral control, then pick up the dice as they fall into place.
We can't stay like this and I've seen people suggesting we retain lockdown measures for upwards of three years.

Oborosen said:

While you somehow decided it was fine to flout the lives of others, even children no less. Just to make the assumption that Trump is willing to bargain their lives for his own election chances.
The man is most assuredly a dick, but I know that he's not "That" much of a dick.

My post merely played by the same rules that you set.

I don't really care about what Trump was talking about back in April. The issue being that we need to get some sense of normalcy back into the operation of the country.
Maintain social standards of distancing and viral control, then pick up the dice as they fall into place.
We can't stay like this and I've seen people suggesting we retain lockdown measures for upwards of three years.

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So which is it? Open to save those who are depressed or close it to save those at harms way for coronavirus?

ReubenSherr said:

Is there anyone on the thread that can address the issue of how 5, 6, 7 year olds are going to learn to read and write remotely

And what's going to happen in 2022 if 4th graders show up to school unable to read?

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How long do you think school years are? And some kids start school knowing how to read. Perhaps we can learn from this and do better in providing incentives for parents and communities to help, to be involved. We can provide more

I have one son who could read Charlotte's Web before Kindergarten and another who, even after 4 years of in class schooling, with help, could not read Charlotte's Web. But I saw remarkable improvement in the second ones reading skills at the end of this school year while he did remote learning with his teacher. It is hard, but it can be done. It also won't be 2 full years, let alone 4.

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Taylor said:

That's a given. It is government after all.

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Govt is the issue? Tell me about all the corporations that were able to change their business model, experience increased costs without any increase in revenue, and convinced employees to work in a situation that could have fatal impact on themselves or their families. The virus is the issue.

mrjurrs said:

Govt is the issue? Tell me about all the corporations that were able to change their business model, experience increased costs without any increase in revenue, and convinced employees to work in a situation that could have fatal impact on themselves or their families. The virus is the issue.

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Sure. The Kroger Corporation. Home Depot Corporation. XPO Logistics. Walmart. CVS. Costco. Walgreens. Whole Foods. Perdue. Delta. Pizza Hut. Tyson. United. US Bank. Con Agra... and on, and on.

Taylor said:

Sure. The Kroger Corporation. Home Depot Corporation. XPO Logistics. Walmart. CVS. Costco. Walgreens. Whole Foods. Perdue. Delta. Pizza Hut. Tyson. United. US Bank. Con Agra... and on, and on.

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I'll start with an easy one. How did Whole Foods change their business model?

Logician Man said:

One simple question: Would you risk sending your child or grandchild going back to public schools this fall with the current numbers being reported, and the risk of becoming infected/carriers Yes or No? Why, or why not?

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No, children are carriers, they don’t social distance. Leave them home in states where the curve has not flattened

Logician Man said:

One simple question: Would you risk sending your child or grandchild going back to public schools this fall with the current numbers being reported, and the risk of becoming infected/carriers Yes or No? Why, or why not?

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Yes, but depending on the child and the family. The risk here is relatively low, but depending on the child or the family structure, sending the child to school may or may not be conducive. Furthermore, we all know that most families would at the very least struggle to be in the workforce and take over observation of their children during normal school hours. Until conditions at the school district level or city/county/state emergency decisions change, the de facto expectation will be that the school children here would attend physical classrooms.

mrjurrs said:

I'll start with an easy one. How did Whole Foods change their business model?

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Installed plexiglass shields, required employees to wear ppe, hired additional people to maintain new cleaning and sanitation standards, altered protocols, reconfigured/eliminated self-serve bars, mandated temperature checks... etc. etc.

JANFU said:

Not for low income who do not have access to I pads/laptops.
A good number do not have internet access or have limited data prepaid, data cost overage is expensive and teaching online well exceeds the data prepaid limits

Teaching this way is simply not affordable for far to many.

States have lost significant revenues, and education will be cut just as Police & city workers are due to budget cuts.

Single parent, works, 8 year old- and that is not unusual

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Wouldn't iPads & other study devices be provided in public schooling?

KevinKohler said:

At a certain point, that will no longer hold water. Folks who are at risk know who they are, and need to act accordingly, instead of expecting all the rest of the world to uproot and change to suit their needs.

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So, do I toss my kids out of the house? Or, too my Mom out? Who will staff the nursing homes when I ship her out, if we get rid of the healthy under geriatric age employees?

This hypothetical safe-segregating of the elderly is a charade. It can't happen. Not possible.

Chomsky said:

Wouldn't iPads & other study devices be provided in public schooling?

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My district already started asking how many would need such devices or internet access, how many may have issues.

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EnigmaO01 said:

Jesus Christ. Give it a rest will you?

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Would you like to give it a rest against Trump? And maybe not use Jesus’ name in vain while you’re doing it?

When Democrats are using kids as political pawns, and insisting that schools stay closed through November in order to hurt the economy, it is not a good time to rest lol.

A lot of liberals here playing dumb and pretending they care about kids when all they care about is themselves.

And acting like insulting Republicans is normal, insulting Trump is kind and caring, and defending them is not. Wake up.

roguenuke said:

My district already started asking how many would need such devices or internet access, how many may have issues.

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Yeah, reason I asked is we do Catholic Schools. So I honestly don't know how the public schools work in this regard.

But since education is a legal mandate for those under 17 y.o., if the schools require study tools & materials it would seem to follow they must legally provide it. That's my take on it.

Chomsky said:

So, do I toss my kids out of the house? Or, too my Mom out? Who will staff the nursing homes when I ship her out, if we get rid of the healthy under geriatric age employees?

This hypothetical safe-segregating of the elderly is a charade. It can't happen. Not possible.

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Neither is staying in our caves for another year.

Somehow, all the retail workers are managing to stay employed, in a very tactile contact business, without dying in droves.

What makes everyone else different?