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That no one wears face shields proves no one REALLY believes what they say about masks

Cuomo tried to send them to the hospital ship, the navy refused. None of us know what the actual resources were. Limited resources in a huge crisis...no bueno.

Like I said - Monday morning quarterbacking.

I want this pandemic picked apart - what worked...what did not. Were there other options that hospitals, politicians, laypeople did not knew existed? How do we make it better the next time. How do we grow on our success and learn from out failures. I hazard a guess that reorganizing the Pandemic Response Team and the Pandemic Playbook might be top of the list.

I predict that the biggest issue with our pandemic response will be inaccurate, inconsistent, and flat out false messaging. Time will tell.

Certainly you have proof Cuomo tried to send 40,000 mortally ill patients to the 1000 bed hospital ship?


Frankly this problem would be far easier to solve were Democrats to end the politics of disease.

Have you ever seen the medical professionals used by Judy Woodruff on PBS. She only uses Democrats. Her entire program is constructed around the destruction of Trump.
 
Certainly you have proof Cuomo tried to send 40,000 mortally ill patients to the 1000 bed hospital ship?


Frankly this problem would be far easier to solve were Democrats to end the politics of disease.

Have you ever seen the medical professionals used by Judy Woodruff on PBS. She only uses Democrats. Her entire program is constructed around the destruction of Trump.

We were speaking to the patients qualified to be nursing home residents.
 
In context, Trump pushed no state. Pence is in charge of those matters.
Bull****. Pence does not do anything without Trump's Ok. Besides Trump said he was in charge. You know the buck stops here and all of that.
 
Bull****. Pence does not do anything without Trump's Ok. Besides Trump said he was in charge. You know the buck stops here and all of that.

I am happy you did not come close to proving it was Trump shoving Governors around.

Democrats NEVER applied that same reasoning to Obama. Ever.
 
Thanks for the reminder; I had completely forgotten. How are you doing over there, by the way? Got Covid-19 "totally under control" as Trump assures us?

No wonder you follow Dementia Joe in more ways than one.
 
No wonder you follow Dementia Joe in more ways than one.

I take no more than a passing interest in him, frankly. I don't vote in America; I just look at the three-ring circus which passes as politics in America, with growing amusement. Trump is hilarious. Are you sure he isn't a comedy act, doing brilliant impressions of an idiot? To be sure no sane individual would elect him to do much more than greet shoppers at Walmart.
 
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I am happy you did not come close to proving it was Trump shoving Governors around.

Democrats NEVER applied that same reasoning to Obama. Ever.

What's the point you are a cult member through and through Trump pushed states to reopen in an effort to "save" the economy. There is plenty of proof for anyone to find.
 
So the facemask rule put forth by Democrats never applies to them. As I thought.

The rule applies to all that cannot social distance. Cuomo is never within 6 feet of anyone in those news conferences.
 
Laws against public nudity do not disprove anything. The government is taking the position that wearing masks is necessary to slow the spread; something that they are unable to demonstrably prove. They also cant say for certain that slowing the spread is the correct course of action is to slow it down. Its very possible that allowing it to run its natural course may be the best thing we can do. The justifications for mandating masks and social distancing is flawed.

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Not true. First of all, you said the government needed to show wearing masks were necessary for public interest. Nudity laws prove this isnt true. There is no more research showing people going naked causes sanitation/health problems than what is available for masks and the spread of covid. Yet nudity laws remain. And it is pointless unless challenged. Unless you challenge such a law/mandate, the government doesn't have to prove Jack.

Second, there is evidence that wearing masks, especially by a certain percentage of the population, slows the spread.

No Debate: New Study Shows How Masks Slow Spread of COVID-19 | Hartford HealthCare

COVID-19: How much protection do face masks offer? - Mayo Clinic

Still Confused About Masks? Here’s the Science Behind How Face Masks Prevent Coronavirus | UC San Francisco

Why wearing a mask is important to slow the spread of COVID-19, according to experts | kvue.com

When it comes to whether slowing the spread is the right course, that only requires numbers. It only requires showing that overwhelming our healthcare system would be bad, and how that could happen.

Here’s the Biggest Thing to Worry About With Coronavirus - The New York Times

This isnt hype, its numbers. And if you've had or ever had to care for someone who had an emergency that could have been life or death without speedy medical care, then it shouldn't be that hard to understand why not overwhelming our medical system is a good goal.


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And why do you believe as you believe? Clearly you support Democrats.

Let's focus on Deaths. Deaths are extreme where Democrats govern. IF party does not matter, why isn't that also true for republican run states?

I make a rational point and you suddenly make it into a political stand off, saying 'I support the Democrats'. I will say this much.....I don't necessarily support Republicans or Democrats (probably more sitting towards the Democrats in recent times.) I most definitely though, do not support Trump.

You are irrational. You cannot blame a political party solely for the deaths, whilst ignoring the host of other factors that were centred around the high number of deaths. You must just have such hatred for the Democrats and such little concern for understanding the whole situation. You fail to consider the clusters of deaths, make-up of the state, structure of their health system, support structures, federal support and the list goes on.

Why is testing so much lower in Republican states?? 'That must be because Republicans think the virus doesn't exist....useless Republicans' Thats the kind of approach you are taking for Democrats. Maybe lower testing means they are not identifying coronavirus and coronavirus deaths?
 
What does that mean? Is it the excuse for Cuomo?

Cuomo is not in NY City, but in Albany NY. Closer to Canada. And it is done all the time by Cuomo yet he leads America with nursing home deaths. And due to his orders.
Our line of conversation had to do with the nursing home deaths. You presented the navy ship as a possible solution. The navy refused Cuomo for transfer of nursing home patients to the ship.

Again...like I have said umpteen times. We are Monday morning quarterbacking pretending like we knew all the options that were available. We need to eventually dissect this pandemic to figure out what were the successes and failures. And what failures were preventable will be an important question and how to prevent such failures in the future will be important.

I am science based. I see failure as an opportunity to improve by learning from mistakes. Do you think this is realistic.

Yes, I bash Trump on Pandemic. But it is usually on one major subject. Messaging. He is not cohesive with his epidemiologists on his messaging. He makes serious messaging errors and doubles down on them. Messaging means the messaging that is cohesive with the epidemiologists (etc) with follow up. He had (and in my mind still has) opportunity to lead with messaging. Right now it is a missmash of messaging then holding huge gathering that flies in the face of what our epidemiologists are telling us.
 
Everyone is told should be wearing face masks to protect others from potentially deadly infection when we leave the house . But face masks can be hot, and they can irritate the skin, fog glasses, make it difficult for some to breathe and create a world without smiles. It also can be difficult for people who have hearing loss to communicate when mouths are covered, muffling voices and hiding facial expressions.

Are clear plastic face shields, most frequently used in health care settings, a better option?

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention continues to recommend wearing “cloth face coverings in public settings where other social distancing measures are difficult to maintain.” But some health experts say shields appear to be very effective at preventing infection — maybe even more effective than masks — for someone going about regular daily activities and not in a high-risk health care setting.

Face Shields May Be Better Than Masks for COVID-19
Universal Face Shields: A Better Option for COVID-19 Containment?
What We Know About Face Shields and Coronavirus - WSJ

From the start, it was explained that face shields offer more protection than masks - and that was medical grade masks. Almost no one wears medical grade masks and there are ZERO studies about homemade masks. A face shield does not restrict your breathing. It does not have you increasingly breathing hot, wet bacteria and virus packed air. It does not reduce you oxygen intake. Doesn't increase you heart rate and blood pressure.
Yet no one wears a face shield. This proves people wear masks for only 2 reasons: Talking heads on TV tell them to - though they aren't wearing a face mask while doing so and 2.) peer pressure to wear a mask - and peer pressure not to wear a face shield.

No one REALLY believes masks help. If they REALLY cared about covid-19 they would be wearing a face shield.

Your post is deceitful. If you have to resort to deceit in order to sell your opinion, doesn't that mean that your opinion is stupid to begin with? And since you are so obsessed with defending that stupidity that you would start a thread over it, doesn't this tell us how desperate you are to be right?

Simple common sense tells me that a shield leaves a big exposed area directly under your mouth, whereas a mask does not. If one is too frail or weak or can't handle fogged up glasses (oh, the humanity) to wear something as simple as a face mask, then an alternative can be a face shield. But one should be aware that a face mask absorbs droplets, whereas face shields do not. Now that I have introduced some simple common sense and some actual responsibility into your post...

There's a third reason that doesn't involve an obsession to create a conspiracy theory. Very much like N95 masks, which is what we should be wearing, face shields are largely "out of stock" unless you wish to walk around like a welder. You have allowed Trump's idiot attitude direct your defiance. And from this irrational defiance you have built a false political war cry against something as simple as a face mask. Reminds of how enthusiastic you people were when your GOP argued for tomato paste.
 
Our line of conversation had to do with the nursing home deaths. You presented the navy ship as a possible solution. The navy refused Cuomo for transfer of nursing home patients to the ship.

Again...like I have said umpteen times. We are Monday morning quarterbacking pretending like we knew all the options that were available. We need to eventually dissect this pandemic to figure out what were the successes and failures. And what failures were preventable will be an important question and how to prevent such failures in the future will be important.

I am science based. I see failure as an opportunity to improve by learning from mistakes. Do you think this is realistic.

Yes, I bash Trump on Pandemic. But it is usually on one major subject. Messaging. He is not cohesive with his epidemiologists on his messaging. He makes serious messaging errors and doubles down on them. Messaging means the messaging that is cohesive with the epidemiologists (etc) with follow up. He had (and in my mind still has) opportunity to lead with messaging. Right now it is a missmash of messaging then holding huge gathering that flies in the face of what our epidemiologists are telling us.

After that word salad, no disrespect though one comment. I do not recall Obama leading us out of the Swine Flu epidemic. I don't recall him ever trying to.

I wish you had a point to make and kept to it so we can talk.
 
Your post is deceitful. If you have to resort to deceit in order to sell your opinion, doesn't that mean that your opinion is stupid to begin with? And since you are so obsessed with defending that stupidity that you would start a thread over it, doesn't this tell us how desperate you are to be right?

Simple common sense tells me that a shield leaves a big exposed area directly under your mouth, whereas a mask does not. If one is too frail or weak or can't handle fogged up glasses (oh, the humanity) to wear something as simple as a face mask, then an alternative can be a face shield. But one should be aware that a face mask absorbs droplets, whereas face shields do not. Now that I have introduced some simple common sense and some actual responsibility into your post...

There's a third reason that doesn't involve an obsession to create a conspiracy theory. Very much like N95 masks, which is what we should be wearing, face shields are largely "out of stock" unless you wish to walk around like a welder. You have allowed Trump's idiot attitude direct your defiance. And from this irrational defiance you have built a false political war cry against something as simple as a face mask. Reminds of how enthusiastic you people were when your GOP argued for tomato paste.

Your opening deceit is clear. And you piled it on. And on and on.
 
I really only wear a mask out of politeness, not b/c of governor Newsom.
 
You presented the navy ship as a possible solution.


And you allege the Navy put a stop to that. And offered no proof. It was certified for a CV19 ship.

Hospital ship Comfort departs NYC, having treated fewer than 200 patients

it has gone. I was not aware of it leaving.

The Navy’s hospital ship Comfort departed New York City today after spending the last month supporting the region’s COVID-19 efforts.

The ship arrived in New York’s Pier 90 exactly one month ago with the mission of accepting non-coronavirus patients to alleviate the burden on local hospitals, but a minimal number of patients admitted during the first week prompted officials to modify the ship’s mission.

Comfort was directed to begin accepting COVID-19 patients on April 6, a decision that warranted an extensive layout reconfiguration to properly cordon off the coronavirus ward from the rest of vessel.

“USNS Comfort arrived in New York City to provide relief to frontline health care providers, and each patient who was brought aboard ensured one more bed was available in a local hospital,” Vice Adm. Andrew Lewis, commander of U.S. 2nd Fleet, said in a Navy release.

“While the ship is departing New York City, make no mistake, the fight is not over, and we stand ready to support the response to COVID-19 in whatever capacity we are needed.”
 
After that word salad, no disrespect though one comment. I do not recall Obama leading us out of the Swine Flu epidemic. I don't recall him ever trying to.

I wish you had a point to make and kept to it so we can talk.

How did he not lead. Give examples.
 
I really only wear a mask out of politeness, not b/c of governor Newsom.

Newsom does not wear a mask.

Coronavirus: Governor Gavin Newsom defends state'''s pace of reopening as number of counties on monitoring list rises to 23 - ABC7 Los Angeles

CORONAVIRUS CALIFORNIA
COVID-19 pandemic: California did not reopen too quickly, Newsom insists as number of counties on watch list rises
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Monday, July 6, 2020 3:51PM
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Gov. Gavin Newsom announced that the number of California counties on a state monitor list has risen from 19 to 23 amid the coronavirus pandemic.

Despite a steep rise in coronavirus cases and hospitalizations over the past two weeks in California, Gov. Gavin Newsom doesn't believe the state moved too quickly to reopen businesses.

Newsom on Monday said it's not about when California reopened, but rather how.

"Cases have been exploding around the state. Was there any realistic way to reopen some sectors of the economy and do you think your administration miscalculated in doing so? And the speed at which they opened restaurants, gymnasiums and fitness centers, for example?" a reporter asked the governor during his Monday press conference.

LA County hospitals warned to prepare for COVID-19 surge
 
How did he not lead. Give examples.

Well you certainly leaped to defend Obama.

Should you have offered proof he did lead?

Obama Declares H1N1 a National Emergency | MedPage Today

Obama Declares H1N1 a National Emergency
by Peggy Peck, Executive Editor, MedPage Today October 24, 2009

notice this is his first try to lead. The Swine Flu was here around February I believe it was.

WASHINGTON -- President Obama has upped the ante in the battle to control the H1N1 flu by declaring it a national emergency, the second such declaration since the flu first emerged last spring.

The White House said the proclamation, which was signed late Friday, will allow public health agencies as well as doctors and hospitals to bypass certain requirements, but details about how that will transfer into clinical practice are not clear.

The proclamation notes that the declaration is a precautionary measure, "given that the rapid increase in illness across the Nation may overburden healthcare resources and that the temporary waiver of certain standard Federal requirements may be warranted in order to enable U.S. healthcare facilities to implement emergency operations plans."
 
And why do you believe as you believe? Clearly you support Democrats.[3]

Let's focus on Deaths. Deaths are extreme where Democrats govern[2]. IF party does not matter, why isn't that also true for republican run states?[1]

I can answer that. I'll even color code:

[1] First off, Party matters when it comes to Republicans because it was your pathetically weak GOP and horribly stupid President that sought to politicize this from the beginning. Republicans get to own those consequences. For example, spending months pretending that this virus is a hoax, then telling idiots to "liberate" themselves from Democrat governors, and opening states with reckless abandonment was just an ignorant political war cry to serve the callous foolishness of one who is already being documented as one of the very worst in American presidential history. Now, with these states rolling back that irresponsible complacency and "full steam ahead" attitude, they expect to be able to declare that we are all in this together without owning that bad behavior? **** that. This is how children learn. In the end, far more Americans will die simply because Republicans and Trump chose to play a game of senselessly defying Democrats over a health issue.

[2] Second, cities are normally Democratic because the populations involve a more diverse crowd than what can be found in 'tater pickin' Idaho. And because cities are far more populated than the rural setting, it makes sense that these locations will be more susceptible to the spread of disease. This is why, throughout history, population-destroying diseases have always found comfort in cities or densely crowded environments such as what the Spanish Flu did to prison camps and military bases during WWI. I guess those were simply "Democratically led?" No, it has nothing to do with being Democrat. If Houston, for example, had a Republican Mayor, Houston would still be in trouble. And considering that Texas was led into this by a fool Republican who was eager to show his loyalty to the idiot in the White House, Houston may even be worse off right now. But isn't it odd how you people can scoff at Democrats for months for listening to health officials and insisting that we open up more responsibility, but now blame the conditions of cities on Democrats? Do you understand how screaming both arguments makes you look? Wasn't (isn't) it the Democrats who insisted on masks and that opening up should be slow and methodical? Now you blame them because their cities are a mess? Since I have shown you this before, you prove that you simply do not care to learn anything that might shatter that radical right-wing inspired ignorance of yours.

[3] The entire narrative throughout the radical right-wing world is how best to avoid how terribly wrong the right has been. You all do this by focusing on the coincidences that cities are normally run by Democrats, while ignoring that cities are natural disease spreaders, so that you can hide from responsibility. From the very far-right to Fox News, this perverted narrative is the same. Isn't it pathetic that when it comes to science, education, fact checking, vegetables, birth certificates, and other such routine aspects of facts and growth that you all consider it a matter of supporting Democrats? What does that make you all? In the meantime, you people cling to conspiracies, debunked lies, defaulting anything uncomfortable to "fake news," and declaring all things that dare penetrate your bubbles as "hoaxes." This is what happens when you all watch your ideologies fail, one after another, over the course of almost two decades, while allowing radical right-wing sources manipulate you into an irrational place of ill-defined rage. You are left believing in nothing and simply defaulting to politicizing everything in order to oppose anything you all have relegated to "the left." I'd think that you people would be tired of always being wrong about everything instead of doubling down in an attempt to hide from it.
 
Interesting. Show us.
This thread.

Mask order issued for entire state of Texas

A poster cited John Hardie, from Canada and his paper "Why Facemask Dont Work" that was in relation to dentistry. A search on Hardie reveals he also does not believe HIV causes AIDS, as I posted in that thread. That same thread (I believe) also quoted an opinion/blog from a physicist claiming the particulates are too small to be stopped (ignoring that they travel in aerosol droplets in the air, not by themselves).

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I can answer that. I'll even color code:

[1] First off, Party matters when it comes to Republicans because it was your pathetically weak GOP and horribly stupid President that sought to politicize this from the beginning. Republicans get to own those consequences. For example, spending months pretending that this virus is a hoax, then telling idiots to "liberate" themselves from Democrat governors, and opening states with reckless abandonment was just an ignorant political war cry to serve the callous foolishness of one who is already being documented as one of the very worst in American presidential history. Now, with these states rolling back that irresponsible complacency and "full steam ahead" attitude, they expect to be able to declare that we are all in this together without owning that bad behavior? **** that. This is how children learn. In the end, far more Americans will die simply because Republicans and Trump chose to play a game of senselessly defying Democrats over a health issue.

[2] Second, cities are normally Democratic because the populations involve a more diverse crowd than what can be found in 'tater pickin' Idaho. And because cities are far more populated than the rural setting, it makes sense that these locations will be more susceptible to the spread of disease. This is why, throughout history, population-destroying diseases have always found comfort in cities or densely crowded environments such as what the Spanish Flu did to prison camps and military bases during WWI. I guess those were simply "Democratically led?" No, it has nothing to do with being Democrat. If Houston, for example, had a Republican Mayor, Houston would still be in trouble. And considering that Texas was led into this by a fool Republican who was eager to show his loyalty to the idiot in the White House, Houston may even be worse off right now. But isn't it odd how you people can scoff at Democrats for months for listening to health officials and insisting that we open up more responsibility, but now blame the conditions of cities on Democrats? Do you understand how screaming both arguments makes you look? Wasn't (isn't) it the Democrats who insisted on masks and that opening up should be slow and methodical? Now you blame them because their cities are a mess? Since I have shown you this before, you prove that you simply do not care to learn anything that might shatter that radical right-wing inspired ignorance of yours.

[3] The entire narrative throughout the radical right-wing world is how best to avoid how terribly wrong the right has been. You all do this by focusing on the coincidences that cities are normally run by Democrats, while ignoring that cities are natural disease spreaders, so that you can hide from responsibility. From the very far-right to Fox News, this perverted narrative is the same. Isn't it pathetic that when it comes to science, education, fact checking, vegetables, birth certificates, and other such routine aspects of facts and growth that you all consider it a matter of supporting Democrats? What does that make you all? In the meantime, you people cling to conspiracies, debunked lies, defaulting anything uncomfortable to "fake news," and declaring all things that dare penetrate your bubbles as "hoaxes." This is what happens when you all watch your ideologies fail, one after another, over the course of almost two decades, while allowing radical right-wing sources manipulate you into an irrational place of ill-defined rage. You are left believing in nothing and simply defaulting to politicizing everything in order to oppose anything you all have relegated to "the left." I'd think that you people would be tired of always being wrong about everything instead of doubling down in an attempt to hide from it.

1. If Trump thought it a hoax, why did he ban China in January this year?

Scribble down notes the next time.
 
Well you certainly leaped to defend Obama.

Should you have offered proof he did lead?

Obama Declares H1N1 a National Emergency | MedPage Today

Obama Declares H1N1 a National Emergency
by Peggy Peck, Executive Editor, MedPage Today October 24, 2009

notice this is his first try to lead. The Swine Flu was here around February I believe it was.
It had been declared a health emergency within 11 days of the first case.

So tell us exactly what declaring it a national emergency earlier during that event would have allowed that wasnt already being done?

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