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Our Constitution was Shortsighted

ldsrptcvt

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After dueling for weeks about how a country should be able to protect itself from fatal epidemics, I've come to the conclusion that our founding fathers made no allowance for rapid containment of contagious diseases. Thus they have let us down and impede us in any war on disease, no mater how contagious and fatal. Constitutional barriers will kill us all in the end, because really bad diseases are in the pipeline, but we have no way to respond quickly as a nation. Oh well, all empires come to an end.
 
If this country falls it won’t be due to a virus, it’ll be due to people tearing it down from the inside out.
 
After dueling for weeks about how a country should be able to protect itself from fatal epidemics, I've come to the conclusion that our founding fathers made no allowance for rapid containment of contagious diseases. Thus they have let us down and impede us in any war on disease, no mater how contagious and fatal. Constitutional barriers will kill us all in the end, because really bad diseases are in the pipeline, but we have no way to respond quickly as a nation. Oh well, all empires come to an end.

What measures to contain contagious diseases does our constitution prevent?
 
The founding fathers had no idea about COVID-19.

To be fair, neither did we in November 2019.

All things considered, the founding fathers did pretty good. . . .
 
After dueling for weeks about how a country should be able to protect itself from fatal epidemics, I've come to the conclusion that our founding fathers made no allowance for rapid containment of contagious diseases. Thus they have let us down and impede us in any war on disease, no mater how contagious and fatal. Constitutional barriers will kill us all in the end, because really bad diseases are in the pipeline, but we have no way to respond quickly as a nation. Oh well, all empires come to an end.

Our Republic survived in 1918 with a terrible, racist, authoritarian, and, later, literal incompetent President in Woodrow Wilson at the helm of our nation's affairs. We lost 675,000 to influenza, back when our population was only a 103 million and coming out of World War I in which our country lost twice as many young men in just over a year of fighting as we lost in Vietnam, with 116,000 killed.

Our Republic endured a deluge of calamities and catastrophes, and our system and our freedoms have endured without some radical re-writing of the bargain between the citizen, the states, and the Federal government. I encourage you to have some perspective.
 
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Our Republic survived in 1918 with a terrible, racist, authoritarian, and, later, literal incompetent President in Woodrow Wilson at the helm of our nation's affairs. We lost 675,000 to influenza, back when our population was only a 103 million and coming out of World War I in which our country lost twice as many young men in just over a year of fighting as we lost in Vietnam, with 116,000 killed.

Our Republic endured a deluge of calamities and catastrophes, and our system and our freedoms have endured without some radical re-writing of the bargain between the citizen, the states, and the Federal government. I encourage you to have some perspective.

But the Republic in those times is different than this current crop of Americans.

We have some of the weakest and softest Americans ever. The current crop would not have survived the sacrifice what the Americans of the WWII endured.

My god, the baby crying and screaming over wearing a little mask is pathetic.
 
The Constitution was written before the invention of toilet paper. We are following the word of a bunch of slave owners with poopy buttholes like it's gospel. I hate it here.
 
After dueling for weeks about how a country should be able to protect itself from fatal epidemics, I've come to the conclusion that our founding fathers made no allowance for rapid containment of contagious diseases. Thus they have let us down and impede us in any war on disease, no mater how contagious and fatal. Constitutional barriers will kill us all in the end, because really bad diseases are in the pipeline, but we have no way to respond quickly as a nation. Oh well, all empires come to an end.

Should the founders have thought of every conceivable contingency and added a provision for dealing with that? Should they have added a a paragraph for dealing with an asteroid collision?

The Constitution is a somewhat vague document specifically to give future generations flexibility in dealing with situations they could not have envisioned.
 
What measures to contain contagious diseases does our constitution prevent?

federally (or even state) mandated quarantines, isolation, and mask wearing. Such measures can be fought in court as unconstitutional. That's why we can only "recommend" containment measures, and half the country can ignore expert advice ( as it is doing today).
 
After dueling for weeks about how a country should be able to protect itself from fatal epidemics, I've come to the conclusion that our founding fathers made no allowance for rapid containment of contagious diseases. Thus they have let us down and impede us in any war on disease, no mater how contagious and fatal. Constitutional barriers will kill us all in the end, because really bad diseases are in the pipeline, but we have no way to respond quickly as a nation. Oh well, all empires come to an end.

How did you reach your conclusion? Lousy management is not the same as a lousy constitution.
 
The founding fathers had no idea about COVID-19.

To be fair, neither did we in November 2019.

All things considered, the founding fathers did pretty good. . . .
But we will never survive a really serious fatal epidemic; Covid 19 was our test and we are failing; if this virus had a higher fatality rate, we'd be up **** creek.
 
Our Republic survived in 1918 with a terrible, racist, authoritarian, and, later, literal incompetent President in Woodrow Wilson at the helm of our nation's affairs. We lost 675,000 to influenza, back when our population was only a 103 million and coming out of World War I in which our country lost twice as many young men in just over a year of fighting as we lost in Vietnam, with 116,000 killed.

Our Republic endured a deluge of calamities and catastrophes, and our system and our freedoms have endured without some radical re-writing of the bargain between the citizen, the states, and the Federal government. I encourage you to have some perspective.

I believe one or more devastatingly fatal viruses are coming, making any previous epidemic look like a common cold.
 
Should the founders have thought of every conceivable contingency and added a provision for dealing with that? Should they have added a a paragraph for dealing with an asteroid collision?

The Constitution is a somewhat vague document specifically to give future generations flexibility in dealing with situations they could not have envisioned.

and yet conservatives insist there is no flexibility - the Constitution is the word of GOD, perfect as is. That's why we can't force people to wear masks or even self-quarantine. The Constitution is based on such a high degree of individual freedom that, in a crisis, people can run around doing whatever they want even if it endangers others.
 
federally (or even state) mandated quarantines, isolation, and mask wearing. Such measures can be fought in court as unconstitutional. That's why we can only "recommend" containment measures, and half the country can ignore expert advice ( as it is doing today).

Just because something can be challenged in court doesn't meant it's not constitutional. Many states have mandated all of those things, and I have yet to see any news about any courts enjoining them from enforcing the requirements.
 
How did you reach your conclusion? Lousy management is not the same as a lousy constitution.

In all my discussions with conservatives, they insist the Constitution strictly forbids even temporary restrictions on individual rights in crises such as epidemics. One guy keeps insisting that no regional (let alone national) mandate such as mask wearing or quarantines can be legally enforced without each and every individual getting a court order - i.e. due process of law - and even a doctor's diagnosis is insufficient until presented in court. Can you imagine how impossible that would be in the case of a highly contagious, highly fatal new virus? Obviously the Constitution's inflexibility would tie our hands.
 
Just because something can be challenged in court doesn't meant it's not constitutional. Many states have mandated all of those things, and I have yet to see any news about any courts enjoining them from enforcing the requirements.

are they really being enforced? My nemesis claims any penalties would be thrown out of court.
 
are they really being enforced? My nemesis claims any penalties would be thrown out of court.

They don't need to be enforced to have an effect, because most people will just comply. But let me know if anyone succeeds in challenging one in court. I wouldn't bet on it.

The Supreme Court has repeatedly upheld quarantine orders, so whatever your conservative friends are saying is simply wrong.
 
If this country falls it won’t be due to a virus, it’ll be due to people tearing it down from the inside out.
Donald Trump has done more than any modern American president to divide Americans and contributed greatly to the weakening of American society. Without question, America is cut off at the knees for what that man has done with the help of his Republican Party over the past few years with terrible bitterness, police brutality against lawful demonstrators, the military in the streets, a wrecked economy, the loss of goodwill among allies, the appeasement of enemies, inhumane treatment of migrants, mendacity, and a sick and dying population. What a mess!
 
and yet conservatives insist there is no flexibility - the Constitution is the word of GOD, perfect as is. That's why we can't force people to wear masks or even self-quarantine. The Constitution is based on such a high degree of individual freedom that, in a crisis, people can run around doing whatever they want even if it endangers others.

People who claim that the Constitution forbids the government from ordering people to wear masks are actually almost right in their own idiotic way. It does forbid the Federal government from forcing people to. It gives that power to the states.

A state order to wear masks in public is Constitutional.
 
After dueling for weeks about how a country should be able to protect itself from fatal epidemics, I've come to the conclusion that our founding fathers made no allowance for rapid containment of contagious diseases. Thus they have let us down and impede us in any war on disease, no mater how contagious and fatal. Constitutional barriers will kill us all in the end, because really bad diseases are in the pipeline, but we have no way to respond quickly as a nation. Oh well, all empires come to an end.

:cuckoo:

And liberals are the smart ones :lamo
 
After dueling for weeks about how a country should be able to protect itself from fatal epidemics, I've come to the conclusion that our founding fathers made no allowance for rapid containment of contagious diseases. Thus they have let us down and impede us in any war on disease, no mater how contagious and fatal. Constitutional barriers will kill us all in the end, because really bad diseases are in the pipeline, but we have no way to respond quickly as a nation. Oh well, all empires come to an end.

Our founders valued individual liberty. It is not only one of the founding principles in the Declaration of Independence, but it is stated that liberty will be protected in several locations within the US Constitution. Patrick Henry even prioritized liberty over life itself with his famous 1775 "Give me liberty, or give me death!" speech. However, just to be clear, life is also a founding principle in the Declaration of Independence, and also protected by the US Constitution as equally as liberty.

If you truly have an issue with the founding principles of the United States of America, and I know all Democrats do, then you should seriously consider finding yourself another country that doesn't value life or liberty. Because as long as you remain in this country, you will be fought by those who wish to preserve the founding principles of the nation, and you will lose.
 
The Constitution of the United States of America is a remarkable document. It's also larger than many realize. There's the original Constitution, of course. There's also a series of amendments and an immense quantity of case law as decided by our courts, up to and including the Supreme Court. Case law is added to almost daily.

The original document could not foresee what the future would hold. The gift to us from its framers was a structure that is often quite vague, leaving room for interpretation. That's where amendments and case law come in.

There's also ideological interpretation. This ranges from a fundamentalist-like 'strict' interpretation through a number of increasingly less strict views. It's important to note that none of these are banned by the constitution itself. They're dogma, plain and simple. So, whenever you hear a statement that this or that is 'unconstitutional', there's a caveat; what is the ideology of the person making the statement? It matters.
 
After dueling for weeks about how a country should be able to protect itself from fatal epidemics, I've come to the conclusion that our founding fathers made no allowance for rapid containment of contagious diseases. Thus they have let us down and impede us in any war on disease, no mater how contagious and fatal. Constitutional barriers will kill us all in the end, because really bad diseases are in the pipeline, but we have no way to respond quickly as a nation. Oh well, all empires come to an end.

False. If you are worried about disease such as covid...the forefathers gave you the freedom to leave the country and live anywhere you want that you feel will keep you safe from disease.
 
After dueling for weeks about how a country should be able to protect itself from fatal epidemics, I've come to the conclusion that our founding fathers made no allowance for rapid containment of contagious diseases. Thus they have let us down and impede us in any war on disease, no mater how contagious and fatal. Constitutional barriers will kill us all in the end, because really bad diseases are in the pipeline, but we have no way to respond quickly as a nation. Oh well, all empires come to an end.

Only because of people like you.
 
After dueling for weeks about how a country should be able to protect itself from fatal epidemics, I've come to the conclusion that our founding fathers made no allowance for rapid containment of contagious diseases. Thus they have let us down and impede us in any war on disease, no mater how contagious and fatal. Constitutional barriers will kill us all in the end, because really bad diseases are in the pipeline, but we have no way to respond quickly as a nation. Oh well, all empires come to an end.

That's not the Founder's fault though. They envisioned each state being as tyrannical as it pleased, it's only after the Civil War that the Constitution began to be applied to states.
 
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