• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Covid's lack of performance has forced the media to move on to something else.

ttwtt78640 said:
The COVID-19 (death and/or hospitalization) numbers have flattened despite major relaxation (reversal?) of the "shutdowns". Some like to focus (more?) on the confirmed COVID-19 case numbers but that is more a function of the change in testing volume than anything else.
Click to expand...

If you want to look at the comparative numbers

20-06-06 COVID.jpg

20-06-06 Deaths by Clearance.jpg​

you can see that there are

  1. countries with lower testing rates that have higher infection and death rates than the US does;
    *
  2. countries with lower testing rates that have lower infection and death rates than the US does;
    *
  3. countries with higher testing rates that have higher infection and death rates than the US does;
    *
    and
    *
  4. countries with higher testing rates that have lower infection and death rates than the US does.

On balance, I don't think the "We only have such high infection and death rates because we are doing so much testing." theory holds much water.

You might want to take a look at the second table and compare the "Red" and "Green" indicators. The average percentage (of "Red" indicators) is 29.33% and the only three countries who have more than that percentage are The UK (highest at 66.67%), France and Germany (tied for second highest at 60%), and the US (fourth highest [and just a shade over the average] at 30%). Considering that the UK, France, and Germany were (essentially) swamped before anything effective could be done, I don't place a whole lot of weight on the 30 or so point difference.
 
Ginger Ale said:
B.S.

COVID is rising, and we will all be sorry later. America is leading, in COVID cases and death. Nothing to be proud of. We failed.

I wish I could say that a brief speck of a good economy could save Trump, but I doubt it. There is so much more to life than money. Civil liberties and health trump the economies brief uptick for me.
Click to expand...

That's it, vote with your "heart" and not with your mind, and welcome DJT back for four more years. The ONLY thing that will save you "progressives" is if somehow the economy remains closed/stifled, and that's artificial, and not gonna happen.
 
snakestretcher said:
It might be worth reminding you that the same happened in 1918 before a second, far more lethal, resurgence in the winter months; 675,000 Americans died that year. It's fine to be optimistic but that optimism needs to be tempered with realism.

Why the Second Wave of the 1918 Spanish Flu Was So Deadly - HISTORY
Click to expand...

Realistically, the Spanish Flu is gone. And without any modern medicine. I'm aware that a lot of people died.

I don't think that there is much we can do, except let it run its course. Which is happening.
 
Drawdown said:
We don't have a lot of cases so as a percentage we did locally see an marked uptick since Memorial Day though the state as a whole is trending down. I think we are up to 0.15% of the population now as our total cases were a whopping 60 as of yesterday.
Click to expand...

The percentage of the US population that is known to have been infected is 0.5945.
 
jimbo said:
Realistically, the Spanish Flu is gone. And without any modern medicine. I'm aware that a lot of people died.

I don't think that there is much we can do, except let it run its course. Which is happening.
Click to expand...

In light of the propensity of some people to label COVID-19 "The Chinese Flu" (since that is where the first known case [in a person who had never been outside of China and had no known contact with any person who had been outside of China]came from), don't you think that it would be simple justice to rename "The Spanish Flu" as "The American Flu" (since that is where the first known case [in a person who had never been outside of the United States of America and had no known contact with any person who had been outside of the United States of America] came from)?
 
TU Curmudgeon said:
If you want to look at the comparative numbers


you can see that there are

  1. countries with lower testing rates that have higher infection and death rates than the US does;
    *
  2. countries with lower testing rates that have lower infection and death rates than the US does;
    *
  3. countries with higher testing rates that have higher infection and death rates than the US does;
    *
    and
    *
  4. countries with higher testing rates that have lower infection and death rates than the US does.

On balance, I don't think the "We only have such high infection and death rates because we are doing so much testing." theory holds much water.

You might want to take a look at the second table and compare the "Red" and "Green" indicators. The average percentage (of "Red" indicators) is 29.33% and the only three countries who have more than that percentage are The UK (highest at 66.67%), France and Germany (tied for second highest at 60%), and the US (fourth highest [and just a shade over the average] at 30%). Considering that the UK, France, and Germany were (essentially) swamped before anything effective could be done, I don't place a whole lot of weight on the 30 or so point difference.
Click to expand...

Thank you for the info. BTW, I never said that (surveillance) testing volume affected the death count, but it surely affects the "confirmed case" count.
 
TU Curmudgeon said:
In light of the propensity of some people to label COVID-19 "The Chinese Flu" (since that is where the first known case [in a person who had never been outside of China and had no known contact with any person who had been outside of China]came from), don't you think that it would be simple justice to rename "The Spanish Flu" as "The American Flu" (since that is where the first known case [in a person who had never been outside of the United States of America and had no known contact with any person who had been outside of the United States of America] came from)?
Click to expand...

I quoted the poster. For all I care it could be called the really bad flu of 1918.

Same with the current outbreak of a virus.
 
Jesus. How desensitized do you have to be to call a thousand dead Americans a day from a pandemic a "lack of performance?"
 
ttwtt78640 said:
Thank you for the info. BTW, I never said that (surveillance) testing volume affected the death count, ...
Click to expand...

I agree that YOU never said that, but there seem to be a bunch of -fools- -trollers- respected posters who do subscribe to whatever idiotic theory Dr. Mushmouth is currently spouting in order to "prove" that a prediction that has been wrong since 04 APR 20 is "less wrong than anyone else's".

ttwtt78640 said:
but it surely affects the "confirmed case" count.
Click to expand...

Indeed it does.

And ascribing a death to a symptom (i.e. "pneumonia") rather than to a disease (o.e. "COVID-19") most certainly affects the "death count from the disease". Doing that (as Dr. Mushmouth says is the only correct way to do it) is akin to saying that someone who had their chest crushed due to a safe falling on them died from "acute respiratory insufficiency" (after all, they weren't able to breathe at a sufficient level to sustain life due to the safe squashing their lungs flat) or that someone who had their whole chest blown away by a shotgun blast died of "coronary insufficiency" (after all, if their heart had been blown clear out of their body it was most certainly not pumping sufficient blood to sustain life).
 
jimbo said:
I quoted the poster. For all I care it could be called the really bad flu of 1918.

Same with the current outbreak of a virus.
Click to expand...

I'm OK with "The Really Bad Flu of 1918", and I'm also OK with "The Really Bad Flu of 2020". Mind you, I'd simplify them to "The 1918 Flu" and "The 2020 Flu".
 
smallvoice said:
That's it, vote with your "heart" and not with your mind, and welcome DJT back for four more years. The ONLY thing that will save you "progressives" is if somehow the economy remains closed/stifled, and that's artificial, and not gonna happen.
Click to expand...

LMAO! That's your response?

The stock market does not reflect a good economy. It only reflects the sentiment. Why would I care? I'm not one of Trump's rich friends. It won't affect the middle class. What does affect me is his handling of the pandemic and my civil liberties. The air I breathe and the food and water I ingest. He has made all of that more dangerous to my health.

I thought Trump might turn out ok, I was wrong, I have since apologized to those who tried to warn me. It's ok to say you had bad judgment. Trumps first term is him, a second term would reflect Americans. I doubt anyone is willing.

He failed his first term as president.

Don't forget, "us" progressives and Independents help put him in office, he doesn't have enough of YOU to do that.
 
Called it.

The Y2k strategy.
 
Ginger Ale said:
LMAO! That's your response?

The stock market does not reflect a good economy. It only reflects the sentiment. Why would I care? I'm not one of Trump's rich friends. It won't affect the middle class. What does affect me is his handling of the pandemic and my civil liberties. The air I breathe and the food and water I ingest. He has made all of that more dangerous to my health.

I thought Trump might turn out ok, I was wrong, I have since apologized to those who tried to warn me. It's ok to say you had bad judgment. Trumps first term is him, a second term would reflect Americans. I doubt anyone is willing.

He failed his first term as president.

Don't forget, "us" progressives and Independents help put him in office, he doesn't have enough of YOU to do that.
Click to expand...

The stock market does reflect the economy, one day at a time, and it does reflect the sentiment of the populace. If people are confident that the administration isn't going to do something useless and divert effort and dollars to something that is "maybe" nice to do, but actually worthless to the individual's pocketbook, the stock market will respond positively. During the Obama malaise, his "change America" policies did not make anyone comfortable, except the smug liberals. Ever since Trump has started stripping the red tape left over, the economy has boomed. The virus has put a clamp on it recently, but that will soon be gone. He excelled in his first term, in spite of you liberals/progressives/whatever, and will get a second.

Not one of "You" progressives voted for him, so you can ride that high horse somewhere else. The "independents" who are truly independent (and not some woke liberal claiming to be independent), will support the economy wherever it leads them.
 
Rickeroo said:
Obviously there is herd immunity and the promised rise in cases failed to materialize over the Memorial Day weekend. Mean time from exposure to symptoms is 5 days.

With the country opening up for the past month, the media has been looking at the actual performance numbers on the ground and has seen that the anti-Trump uptick in cases isn't going to happen.

Over the past couple days, race has come to the forefront as a means of damaging Trump. Rest easy citizenry, the plague is over and we're back to race.
Click to expand...

I sure hope your just keeping your opinion to DP. What you are doing and saying is dangerous. The pandemic is NOT over. Your non scientific BS sounds really stupid. Stop listening to Rush and Sean and wake up. The virus is on the rise in many states. Some states are reporting their highest daily counts yet.

Why do you people say sh** like this. It's extremely irresponsible.
 
Cardinal said:
Jesus. How desensitized do you have to be to call a thousand dead Americans a day from a pandemic a "lack of performance?"
Click to expand...
Most people see numbers. They do not see families and friends affected; they cannot imagine what it would be like to have that be someone they are close to until it happens to them.
 
HumblePi said:
You are listening to Rush Limbaugh rather than the experts. He claimed that 'herd immunity has been achieved in California'. He's wrong, it hasn't, and that's a dangerous misconception. Infectious disease epidemiologists, have stated very clearly that herd immunity against COVID-19 will not be achieved at a population level in 2020, barring a public health catastrophe. To reach herd immunity for COVID-19, likely 70% or more of the population would need to be immune and we're not even close to those numbers.
Click to expand...

The only herd immunity achieved is by Limbaugh's herd of followers. They are immune to facts.
 
Xilnik said:
Most people see numbers. They do not see families and friends affected; they cannot imagine what it would be like to have that be someone they are close to until it happens to them.
Click to expand...

I agree and that's a sad look of Americans. I hope all these stupid science deniers, mask deniers, vaccine deniers and anyone else with that selfish attitude all catch the virus. They can suffer just like everyone else has and some will die. And I won't give a sh**.

But I will obey, to the best of my ability, all the social distancing guidelines. Including refusing customers at my shop who don't wear masks. It's already happened a few times. There loss, not mine.
 
Rickeroo said:
Obviously there is herd immunity and the promised rise in cases failed to materialize over the Memorial Day weekend. Mean time from exposure to symptoms is 5 days.

With the country opening up for the past month, the media has been looking at the actual performance numbers on the ground and has seen that the anti-Trump uptick in cases isn't going to happen.

Over the past couple days, race has come to the forefront as a means of damaging Trump. Rest easy citizenry, the plague is over and we're back to race.
Click to expand...

The media has only moved on on to something else in your tiny little right wing world. All the media I watch goes into Covid multiple times per day in spite of all the protests.
 
The AntiDonald said:
The media has only moved on on to something else in your tiny little right wing world. All the media I watch goes into Covid multiple times per day in spite of all the protests.
Click to expand...

Same, although the segments have gotten smaller between the protests, riots, twitter nonsense, and whatever other sleight of hand President Trump pulls to make the media "look over here" instead of at what should be priority among current affairs.
 
Xilnik said:
Same, although the segments have gotten smaller between the protests, riots, twitter nonsense, and whatever other sleight of hand President Trump pulls to make the media "look over here" instead of at what should be priority among current affairs.
Click to expand...

In a way, were lucky these protests happened when they did. We've been paying enough attention to the doctors and scientists to know exactly how to act. That is for the exception of those that refuse to believe it.

The good news is, I don't need those people in my life.
 
smallvoice said:
The stock market does reflect the economy, one day at a time, and it does reflect the sentiment of the populace. If people are confident that the administration isn't going to do something useless and divert effort and dollars to something that is "maybe" nice to do, but actually worthless to the individual's pocketbook, the stock market will respond positively. During the Obama malaise, his "change America" policies did not make anyone comfortable, except the smug liberals. Ever since Trump has started stripping the red tape left over, the economy has boomed. The virus has put a clamp on it recently, but that will soon be gone. He excelled in his first term, in spite of you liberals/progressives/whatever, and will get a second.

Not one of "You" progressives voted for him, so you can ride that high horse somewhere else. The "independents" who are truly independent (and not some woke liberal claiming to be independent), will support the economy wherever it leads them.
Click to expand...

WRONG: WASHINGTON — Joe Biden isn't the only presidential candidate whose allies believe the votes of Bernie Sanders' most dedicated supporters could hold the key to his November success. President Donald Trump and his supporters believe the same.

In 2016, about 216,000 Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin voters backed the Vermont senator in the spring and Trump in the fall, according to an analysis of exit polling — well over twice the president's total margin of victory in those states, which were critical to his electoral vote win in the face of a decisive popular vote loss.Sanders voters helped Trump win the White House. Could they do it again?



And WRONG: The economy is in free fall. So why isn’t the stock market?
Everything is bad, and yet somehow the stock market is good.Stock market: Why stocks have gone up even though the economy is bad - Vox

Nobody knows how the economy will really be by the November election period. He acts like the stock market is all that matters but it's not, of course. If people keep getting sick at meat plants, seafood, dairy, etc. It won't be looking good. It's only 5 months away, and the virus is still here and climbing, thanks to a crappy president and his ridiculous COVID team who he's pretty much kicked to the curb already.

And, I know nothing about "smug" liberals.
 
Cardinal said:
Jesus. How desensitized do you have to be to call a thousand dead Americans a day from a pandemic a "lack of performance?"
Click to expand...

Call it momentum - Covid lacks it even as vectors for infection increase due to the country opening up. If it had it, the press would still have it as story #1. It's been eclipsed handily by the old standby story, that of race.
 
Xilnik said:
Most people see numbers. They do not see families and friends affected; they cannot imagine what it would be like to have that be someone they are close to until it happens to them.
Click to expand...

Indeed. This is made easier by the fact this is a nation which has large sections of sparsely populated areas which aren't affected. Despite 80% of the population living in urban centers, other factors like how people commute and the population density variances in cities also makes it easy to dismiss the gravity of the pandemic. As a nation, I think this one does better at responding to more concrete and immediate crises than ones like this one which has a "it's not happening here so it isn't real" factor going for it.
 
TU Curmudgeon said:
If you want to look at the comparative numbers


you can see that there are

  1. countries with lower testing rates that have higher infection and death rates than the US does;
    *
  2. countries with lower testing rates that have lower infection and death rates than the US does;
    *
  3. countries with higher testing rates that have higher infection and death rates than the US does;
    *
    and
    *
  4. countries with higher testing rates that have lower infection and death rates than the US does.

On balance, I don't think the "We only have such high infection and death rates because we are doing so much testing." theory holds much water.

You might want to take a look at the second table and compare the "Red" and "Green" indicators. The average percentage (of "Red" indicators) is 29.33% and the only three countries who have more than that percentage are The UK (highest at 66.67%), France and Germany (tied for second highest at 60%), and the US (fourth highest [and just a shade over the average] at 30%). Considering that the UK, France, and Germany were (essentially) swamped before anything effective could be done, I don't place a whole lot of weight on the 30 or so point difference.
Click to expand...

It looks like there is a problem with your recovered number for the US today.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
TU Curmudgeon said:
Actually the "mean time from exposure" is between 1 and 14 days. You might not have noticed it, but the numbers


simply don't actually match what you think they are.

The numbers do look like they are stabilizing at approximately 1,000 deaths per day and the slopes of the trend lines ARE flattening (but have not yet become negative).
Click to expand...

He made it up.

Trumpsters are telling each other that the pandemic was made up by “the media”. And since “not enough”people died fast enough, their bobbing thier bobble heads to the notion that these protests are media products as well.

If that sound s childish, self serving, ridiculous, and comically false,........
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom