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A mysterious company’s coronavirus papers in top medical journals may be unraveling; HCQ Misinfo...

zimmer

zimmer

Educating the Ignorant
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“This is a drug that has been used for decades. It’s not like we know nothing about its safety,” says Miguel Hernán, a Harvard epidemiologist and co-investigator on an ongoing trial of hydroxychloroquine in Spain and Latin America for COVID-19 prevention in health care workers.

The controversy has been an unfortunate distraction, Hernán adds. “If you do something as inflammatory as this without a solid foundation, you are going to make a lot of people waste time trying to understand what is going on.”

Chaccour says both NEJM and The Lancet should have scrutinized the provenance of Surgisphere’s data more closely before publishing the studies. “Here we are in the middle of a pandemic with hundreds of thousands of deaths, and the two most prestigious medical journals have failed us,” he says.

A mysterious company’s coronavirus papers in top medical journals may be unraveling | Science | AAAS
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One would think people would celebrate this, that HCQ combined with other drugs is safe and effective, but I have a feeling It won’t be so.
 
Re: A mysterious company’s coronavirus papers in top medical journals may be unraveling; HCQ Misin

People will do anything to try to destroy president Trump! The May 22nd study was a giant fraud!!


Today, The Lancet issued an Expression of Concern (EOC) saying “important scientific questions have been raised about data” in the paper and noting that “an independent audit of the provenance and validity of the data has been commissioned by the authors not affiliated with Surgisphere and is ongoing, with results expected very shortly.”

Hours earlier, The New England Journal of Medicine (NEJM) issued its own EOC about a second study using Surgisphere data, published on 1 May. The paper reported that taking certain blood pressure drugs including angiotensin-converting enzyme (ACE) inhibitors didn’t appear to increase the risk of death among COVID-19 patients, as some researchers had suggested. (Several studies analyzing other groups of COVID-19 patients support the NEJM results.) “Recently, substantive concerns have been raised about the quality of the information in that database,” an NEJM statement noted. “We have asked the authors to provide evidence that the data are reliable.”
 
Re: A mysterious company’s coronavirus papers in top medical journals may be unraveling; HCQ Misin

zimmer said:
One would think people would celebrate this, that HCQ combined with other drugs is safe and effective, but I have a feeling It won’t be so.
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Where on earth do you get that it's safe and effective? One study has issues and might not be valid. That does not mean that the opposite of it's conclusions are true.

And this is why it is ludicrous to inject politics into science.
 
Re: A mysterious company’s coronavirus papers in top medical journals may be unraveling; HCQ Misin

Common Sense 1 said:
People will do anything to try to destroy president Trump! The May 22nd study was a giant fraud!!


Today, The Lancet issued an Expression of Concern (EOC) saying “important scientific questions have been raised about data” in the paper and noting that “an independent audit of the provenance and validity of the data has been commissioned by the authors not affiliated with Surgisphere and is ongoing, with results expected very shortly.”

Hours earlier, The New England Journal of Medicine (NEJM) issued its own EOC about a second study using Surgisphere data, published on 1 May. The paper reported that taking certain blood pressure drugs including angiotensin-converting enzyme (ACE) inhibitors didn’t appear to increase the risk of death among COVID-19 patients, as some researchers had suggested. (Several studies analyzing other groups of COVID-19 patients support the NEJM results.) “Recently, substantive concerns have been raised about the quality of the information in that database,” an NEJM statement noted. “We have asked the authors to provide evidence that the data are reliable.”
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As I've said for years, so much for the precious peer review process. It's nothing more than an incestuous process of academics licking each other's asses to get grants from the government.
 
Re: A mysterious company’s coronavirus papers in top medical journals may be unraveling; HCQ Misin

American said:
As I've said for years, so much for the precious peer review process. It's nothing more than an incestuous process of academics licking each other's asses to get grants from the government.
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Peer review works. That's why the BS studies are caught. Your post demonstrates a lack of understanding of what peer review is and how it works.
 
Re: A mysterious company’s coronavirus papers in top medical journals may be unraveling; HCQ Misin

dex4974 said:
Peer review works. That's why the BS studies are caught. Your post demonstrates a lack of understanding of what peer review is and how it works.
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It is supposed to work, before publication!
The Lancet casts doubt over hydroxychloroquine study
The Lancet has issued an "expression of concern" over a large-scale study of
hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine it published that led to the World Health Organization
suspending clinical trials of the anti-viral drugs as a potential treatment for COVID-19.
n a statement, the medical journal acknowledged "important" questions over the research,
after dozens of scientists issued an open letter last week raising concerns about its methodology
and transparency around the data, which was provided by the firm Surgisphere.
Click to expand...
The question should be, why did this study pass peer review in the first place.
Any "expression of concern" should occur, before an article is published, not afterword.
In this case, whatever peer review that existed, failed.
 
Re: A mysterious company’s coronavirus papers in top medical journals may be unraveling; HCQ Misin

longview said:
It is supposed to work, before publication!
The Lancet casts doubt over hydroxychloroquine study

The question should be, why did this study pass peer review in the first place.
Any "expression of concern" should occur, before an article is published, not afterword.
In this case, whatever peer review that existed, failed.
Click to expand...

The world isn't perfect. Peer review works.
 
Re: A mysterious company’s coronavirus papers in top medical journals may be unraveling; HCQ Misin

Common Sense 1 said:
People will do anything to try to destroy president Trump! The May 22nd study was a giant fraud!!


Today, The Lancet issued an Expression of Concern (EOC) saying “important scientific questions have been raised about data” in the paper and noting that “an independent audit of the provenance and validity of the data has been commissioned by the authors not affiliated with Surgisphere and is ongoing, with results expected very shortly.”

Hours earlier, The New England Journal of Medicine (NEJM) issued its own EOC about a second study using Surgisphere data, published on 1 May. The paper reported that taking certain blood pressure drugs including angiotensin-converting enzyme (ACE) inhibitors didn’t appear to increase the risk of death among COVID-19 patients, as some researchers had suggested. (Several studies analyzing other groups of COVID-19 patients support the NEJM results.) “Recently, substantive concerns have been raised about the quality of the information in that database,” an NEJM statement noted. “We have asked the authors to provide evidence that the data are reliable.”
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This is old news, Surgisphere fudged the data, they claimed they had information from 6 Australian hospitals ( they all said they have never heard of
Surgisphere ) and the data was flat out made up crap!
 
Re: A mysterious company’s coronavirus papers in top medical journals may be unraveling; HCQ Misin

dex4974 said:
The world isn't perfect. Peer review works.
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Not all the time, which is the point the others are making, I believe.
 
Re: A mysterious company’s coronavirus papers in top medical journals may be unraveling; HCQ Misin

American said:
As I've said for years, so much for the precious peer review process. It's nothing more than an incestuous process of academics licking each other's asses to get grants from the government.
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Clueless post. Of course I'll withdraw that as soon as you provide evidence for your absurd assertion-which of course you won't because you cannot. But do keep whining; it's what conservatives do best.
 
Re: A mysterious company’s coronavirus papers in top medical journals may be unraveling; HCQ Misin

dex4974 said:
The world isn't perfect. Peer review works.
Click to expand...
Your statement is too inclusive!
You could say, peer review works most of the time, but not simply that it works.
Peer review clearly failed here, and has failed many times in the past, which is why
peer reviewed papers get retracted.
Retraction Watch – Tracking retractions as a window into the scientific process
Since the Lancet article caused the WHO to stop all the trials of hydroxychloroquine,
it could in theory have caused many thousands of deaths.
While I cannot say one way or the other if hydroxychloroquine is an effective treatment of Covid-19,
many doctors seem to think it is helping.
 
Re: A mysterious company’s coronavirus papers in top medical journals may be unraveling; HCQ Misin

Mithros said:
Where on earth do you get that it's safe and effective? One study has issues and might not be valid. That does not mean that the opposite of it's conclusions are true.

And this is why it is ludicrous to inject politics into science.
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Read the article.

One would think the sections I quoted would motivate someone to do so... but alas... Your response was so easy to predict.

And your comment about politics and science... it seems that could very well be the reason for the bad/misleading/faulty HCQ report.
 
Re: A mysterious company’s coronavirus papers in top medical journals may be unraveling; HCQ Misin

longview said:
Your statement is too inclusive!
You could say, peer review works most of the time, but not simply that it works.
Peer review clearly failed here, and has failed many times in the past, which is why
peer reviewed papers get retracted.
Retraction Watch – Tracking retractions as a window into the scientific process
Since the Lancet article caused the WHO to stop all the trials of hydroxychloroquine,
it could in theory have caused many thousands of deaths.
While I cannot say one way or the other if hydroxychloroquine is an effective treatment of Covid-19,
many doctors seem to think it is helping.
Click to expand...

In short... the I recall one of the Dr.’s who has used HCQ successfully in NY explaining it this way:

It’s useful in early stage Corona infections.

1. The HCQ opens the cell... to allow...

2. ... Zinc into the cell to kill the virus.

3. Antibiotics are used as an assistant.

That’s 3 inexpensive drugs that could help millions... for about $20.00 per treatment.
 
Re: A mysterious company’s coronavirus papers in top medical journals may be unraveling; HCQ Misin

American said:
As I've said for years, so much for the precious peer review process. It's nothing more than an incestuous process of academics licking each other's asses to get grants from the government.
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Sad but unfortunately... too much truth.

The government should get out of providing grants. Since they’ve done it, science has become more and more perverted.
 
Re: A mysterious company’s coronavirus papers in top medical journals may be unraveling; HCQ Misin

dex4974 said:
Peer review works. That's why the BS studies are caught. Your post demonstrates a lack of understanding of what peer review is and how it works.
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Seems to have failed in two “top” journals here, and this during a pandemic.

The BS studies... are being exposed. At a time a cheap combination of drugs could have been of great assistance.

That... is criminal.
 
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Re: A mysterious company’s coronavirus papers in top medical journals may be unraveling; HCQ Misin

Mithros said:
Where on earth do you get that it's safe and effective? One study has issues and might not be valid. That does not mean that the opposite of it's conclusions are true.

And this is why it is ludicrous to inject politics into science.
Click to expand...

Been used for 60-years. Proven safe and effective. Otherwise it would have been removed for use by the FDA.

I suggest you read the article instead of spouting off stupidities.
 
Re: A mysterious company’s coronavirus papers in top medical journals may be unraveling; HCQ Misin

One of the weirdest things about the Trump Presidency is how a drug for malaria became politically polarizing.
 
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Re: A mysterious company’s coronavirus papers in top medical journals may be unraveling; HCQ Misin

zimmer said:
Been used for 60-years. Proven safe and effective. Otherwise it would have been removed for use by the FDA.

I suggest you read the article instead of spouting off stupidities.
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I suggest you learn the meaning of the word "AND". Where on earth do you get that this drug is "safe AND effective".

But you know what.. I don't care anymore. Go out and pay for treatments that don't work and may kill you. Have fun.

Ps. of course I read it. And the sampling issues the study may have,.. and what that actually means.
 
Re: A mysterious company’s coronavirus papers in top medical journals may be unraveling; HCQ Misin

zimmer said:
One would think people would celebrate this, that HCQ combined with other drugs is safe and effective, but I have a feeling It won’t be so.
Click to expand...

False statement when applied to treating Covid.
 
Re: A mysterious company’s coronavirus papers in top medical journals may be unraveling; HCQ Misin

PoS said:
Not all the time, which is the point the others are making, I believe.
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Is there a better method than having a bunch of subject matter experts look at the papers and debate the merits of the papers?
 
Re: A mysterious company’s coronavirus papers in top medical journals may be unraveling; HCQ Misin

Mithros said:
Where on earth do you get that it's safe and effective? One study has issues and might not be valid. That does not mean that the opposite of it's conclusions are true.
Click to expand...

There were only four major studies claiming HCQ wasn't safe - The Lancet and the NEJM have raised issues on two of the studies - The other two that are left are another NEJM study that tested HCQ only on extremely ill patients, and the Virginia Veterans study which only tested Veterans, many of whom had underlying health conditions

Meanwhile, there are more than half a dozen studies, including clinical, observational, and anecdotal, that support the fact that HCQ is safe if used early in treatment
 
Re: A mysterious company’s coronavirus papers in top medical journals may be unraveling; HCQ Misin

Cardinal said:
One of the weirdest things about the Trump Presidency is how a drug for malaria became politically polarizing.
Click to expand...
It is weird.

It's weird that people have this irresponsible amount of trust in a politician.
They trust this politician so much that they are convinced this drug will work because the politician touted it.
[ It's ****en negligent for an American to trust a politician that much. ]


When evidence to the contrary comes out, they attack the source as being biased against Trump.
As though everything and everyone revolves around Trump and feelings about Trump.

It's ****en creepy, tbh
really, really, really, ****en creepy

Buckle up.
Them creepy ****ers is hardly getting started with their ****ery.
They got a bunch more ways they're planning to **** America this year.
So much ****ery that many people are unable to grasp the sheer magnitude of the upcoming Trumpco ****ery.
So, they choose to believe what they see coming ain't real.

Gassing peaceful clergy for a photo-op ain't **** compared to the assaults on Americans which are coming

Hopefully, the holidays this year won't suck as much as I expect they will for the USA.
 
Re: A mysterious company’s coronavirus papers in top medical journals may be unraveling; HCQ Misin

Simon W. Moon said:
Is there a better method than having a bunch of subject matter experts look at the papers and debate the merits of the papers?
Click to expand...
Yes. Transparancy and reproducibility. Even top-tier journals are often chock full of errors.
 
Re: A mysterious company’s coronavirus papers in top medical journals may be unraveling; HCQ Misin

Cardinal said:
One of the weirdest things about the Trump Presidency is how a drug for malaria became politically polarizing.
Click to expand...

I don't think it's weird at all. It is just a reflexive reaction... Trump supports it so therefor it must be bad. Trump doubles down and here we are.

I'd call it par for the course.
 
Re: A mysterious company’s coronavirus papers in top medical journals may be unraveling; HCQ Misin

Simon W. Moon said:
It is weird.

It's weird that people have this irresponsible amount of trust in a politician.
They trust this politician so much that they are convinced this drug will work because the politician touted it.
Click to expand...

Do you have evidence that people are conning their physicians into prescribing HCQ for them, and then using Trump as a backup?
 
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