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after reopening 3 weeks ago, ICU beds at capacity in Montgomery, Alabama

Mithros said:
Do you know where the term quarantine comes from? Venice required returning sailors to wait 40 days before entering the city...aka a quarantino.
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I object to indefinite quarantine of an entire population. I'm not concerned with border controls.
 
AmNat said:
Same energy

View attachment 67281381
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it proves what i've been saying for decades. the Republican Party isn't the party of Christianity (as they've lied about seemingly forever). it's just people faking and being liars.

thanks for proving my point yet again.
 
AmNat said:
I see that you are also a practitioner of interpretive reading.
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I am interpreting that you think the unanimous recommendations of physicians and public health experts should be ignored. Am I misinterpreting that?
 
AmNat said:
I object to indefinite quarantine of an entire population. I'm not concerned with border controls.
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Who has recommended indefinite quarantines?

The CDC had put out detailed guidelines of how to prudently reopen the economy. It was stifled by the Whitehouse.
 
AmNat said:
I didn't make any claims about British India or whatever. Perhaps you should re-read my post, and/or Google the phrase "Black Death" to see which plague pandemic it refers to.

If you can cite any examples of "shutdown orders" during the Black Death which compare to the ones we've got now, please do so. I'm not concerned with nations or cities excluding outsiders.
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Well, Milan controlled the Black Death extremely well.

When a person was found to have it, they confined the family in their house and boarded it up, leaving them to die or starve.

That’s not prevention, you say?

Well, they also did the same for all the immediate next door neighbors, infected or not.

The royalty back then, of course, quickly isolated from the general population. It worked somewhat well for them, just like it is doing today.
 
ataraxia said:
So? What does "not completely reopen" have to do with "indefinite quarantines" you are against? And How is that related to the CDC guidelines on reopening?

You are advocating NO precautions whatsoever, and just let the body count mount as human sacrifices to the temple of Trump Glory and Reelection?
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You asked for indefinite. There's indefinite.

You are advocating NO precautions whatsoever, and just let the body count mount as human sacrifices to the temple of Trump Glory and Reelection?
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You're advocating a shutdown in case there aren't enough real black people in the country.
 
Helix said:
They think that opening up without testing will somehow help the orange fool, and helping the orange fool is their main concern. It is one of the dumbest societal phenomenons that I have ever observed.
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It’s clearly a cult these days.

And it’s getting to be more Jim Jones-ey then I ever thought it could get.
 
Digger said:
The state closed down at the beginning of April and opened back up at the end of April. And now they've run out of ICU beds.
With just one ICU bed available, Montgomery, Alabama, is sending sick patients to Birmingham - CNN
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CNN is always good for giving you only selected, half-info to feed your panic attacks ...


Montgomery hospitals can handle ICU bed shortages, state health officer says

May 21, 2020 - "State Health Officer Dr. Scott Harris ... said this is nothing new ...

Reed also addressed Baptist Health and Jackson Hospital’s statements that COVID-19 patients have not been transferred to Birmingham, despite his statement Wednesday saying they have been.

“I was told yesterday that they are being diverted to Birmingham because of the lack of ICU beds,” he said. “Now that may have changed today, and that’s great if it has.” ...

Montgomery hospitals can handle ICU bed shortages, state health officer says


Looks like CNN and Mayor Reed enjoy giving out overblown, fake news to keep you all in a permanent tizzy. :lol:
 
AmNat said:
No I wasn't. Virtually no one who was around in 1918 is around today. Almost as if pausing normal life doesn't actually prevent people from dying.
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So how do you know they overreacted?
 
AmNat said:
The Black Death was hundreds of times more lethal than the coronavirus, and did not result in enforced shutdowns of social and economic life.

The Spanish Flu was several times deadlier than the coronavirus, and the enforced shutdowns it provoked were nowhere close to current ones in either scope or uniformity. Though they were also out of proportion by historical standards.



All people die. Even if your doomsday predictions are true (despite not being empirically validated), enforced closures of everything are not justified.
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So let me guess, you're the kind of person who would suspect Jews of having spread the black death or had a secret cure because they weren't affected anywhere near as much as everybody else.

Turned out that what it really was is they culturally washed their hands regularly and kept cats, whcih Christians did not because they were associated with witches. Lots of cats means very few rats. Fleas on rats transmitted the virus.

The Christian population never made the connection. But they did add the jews' success to their list of greivances against them.

Which sounds eerily like the rhetoric we hear now from the right in regards to the left, come to think of it.

LSS, you provide examples from periods when little was known or understood about viruses to now.

And you still can't gaslight away South Korea's success. Doing all that stupid unnecessary stuff kept their infections down to less than twelve thousand and iirc 264 deaths.

A sixth of our population less than ten percent of the cases and a tiny fraction of the deaths.

And their testing and contact tracing efforts avoided complete shutdowns and things are already much back to normal. Masks in public is still practiced.

They didn't have to implement mitigation efforts. They stayed in containment.

Trump had no interest in containment.

He apparently thought that if we just believed in him enough he'd come back to life.

Oh, wait, that's Tinkerbell...
 
Common Sense 1 said:
It seems that the state has a very low number of ICU beds!
Where are Alabama’s hospital beds?
Where are Alabama’s hospital beds? - al.com

There are nearly 15,000 hospital beds in Alabama, but they aren’t evenly distributed across the state. Several parts of the state, especially rural areas, don’t have any hospitals at all, and others have a relatively small number of beds compared to their populations.
As AL.com’s Anna Claire Vollers reported earlier this week, 75% of Alabama’s 14,790 hospital beds are full on any given day. Any surge caused by the coronavirus could easily overwhelm the healthcare system.
The number of beds in intensive care units here is even smaller. There are just fewer than 1,700 ICU beds in Alabama, and a lot of counties don’t have any.
There are 22 counties with no ICU beds at all, and 44 counties have fewer than two ICU beds per 10,000 people.
Jefferson County has the most ICU beds at 526, and the most per capita at 8 beds per 10,000 people. Mobile, Madison and Tuscaloosa are the only other counties with more than 100 ICU beds.
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In addition to your info, the State Health Officer Dr. Scott Harris said this is nothing new. And the Mayor was already back peddling his comment about patients being moved to other cities.

See my post #60

The OP is a prime example of fake news.
 
AmNat said:
The Spanish Flu killed around 3% of the world population, and around .5% of the US population. The Black Death killed a third to a half of the population in most places. The coronavirus may have a population wide mortality of .1%.

These aren't "tales of caution". Disease is part of human life. It sucks, but it doesn't justify putting everything on hold. Our ancestors understood this even when facing much deadlier illnesses.
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No they did not.

They barely understood what was going on during the black death. As I said, they added the jews' lower infection rate to their list of "crimes". Thought they either spread the virus to kill Christians or had a cure they wouldn't share.

But it was actually personal hygiene and cats.

So a case can be made that had they done what the Jews did the black death might not have been as bad as it was.

And if we had done what SK did we wouldn't be where we are.

Mitigation is what we are doing now.

And mitigation is what you do when you fail at containment.

We never even tried containment.

We tried faith in trump.

And we can all see how that worked out
 
AmNat said:
You are still missing the point. Every one of us will die, and many of us will die in unpleasant ways. Two thirds of the European population survived the Black Death, but they are all gone now. 99.5% of the US population survived the Spanish Flu, all but a handful are gone now. Likewise, everyone who survives Covid will be gone someday.
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So why do we worry about murder?

They were gonna die eventually anyway, right?
 
RabidAlpaca said:
This is wildly sociopathic. You're saying that even if it meant tens of millions of Americans dying, we should do it because that's how we did it in the past. Please seek help.

FYI, if Trump had taken the virus seriously early on like most other countries, we wouldn't have to have shut down as long as we did.
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And even then only regionally, not the whole country.
 
AmNat said:
I'm not saying we should live normal lives because our ancestors did. I'm saying that we should live normal lives because that's the sane thing to do. Our ancestors' simply evidenced that by their behavior.
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You do realize that the kings did not care about the peasants quality of life, right? The churches were selling an afterlife, so dying early was actually a "reward".

Cavement thought diseases were evil spirits.

But I suspect that you would let the tribe throw your daughter in the volcano because that's what the tribe always did when it started to rumble.
 
Shocking. CNN posted an article filled with bull****, didnt bother to post the actual FACTS about why the ICU beds are filling up, knowing all too well that idiot leftists would swallow their bull**** mindlessly.



State health officials say the apparent spike in cases is likely related to increased on-going testing and contact tracing.

“As we expand our testing criteria, we’re going to see more positives,” State Health Officer Dr. Karen Landers said.

"She said with more elective surgeries happening that could be contributing to resources spreading thin. She also said hospitals have what is called a “surge” plan, in case they become overwhelmed, which maps out what area hospitals can take their overflow of cases."

“As you opened up more you were going to see more demand on your beds but with COVID-19 contributing to that obviously it is of concern,” Landers said.

With state hospital ICU units filling up, Landers warned it’s important the community continues to take this virus seriously and do your part by wearing a mask and social distancing to keep the virus from spreading and overwhelming the healthcare system."
 
AmNat said:
The Black Death was hundreds of times more lethal than the coronavirus, and did not result in enforced shutdowns of social and economic life.
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Yes it did. There were many towns who closed themselves off either to avoid the plague or keep the plague away from others. Economic life collapsed and whole nations were on the verge of collapse. Only reason that they did not, is that their direct enemies who could exploit their weakness, were themselves effected. Europe has several abandoned plague towns. The area known as Germany is estimated to have gone from 140k settlements at the start of the Black Death to 50k settlements at the end of the Black Death.

The Spanish Flu was several times deadlier than the coronavirus, and the enforced shutdowns it provoked were nowhere close to current ones in either scope or uniformity. Though they were also out of proportion by historical standards.
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Bull****. They closed down several times, because they opened up too early. Philadelphia is a well know case, where they thought they had beaten the Spanish Flu, opened up the city again and the second wave came and killed even more. And lets not forget that the media censorship was massive, so not to hurt the war effort. That is the reason it is called the Spanish Flu... Spain was the only place that did not have state censorship, so the population were told what they already knew.
 
AmNat said:
You are still missing the point. Every one of us will die, and many of us will die in unpleasant ways. Two thirds of the European population survived the Black Death, but they are all gone now. 99.5% of the US population survived the Spanish Flu, all but a handful are gone now. Likewise, everyone who survives Covid will be gone someday.
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your ivory tower philosophical musings aren't helping people in trouble today
 
Digger said:
That is so very not true. Wow.

Bubonic plague: the first pandemic | Science Museum

"Many of the public health measures that we would recognize today first emerged during the Black Death."

"Medical inspections. A plague doctor would come to inspect suspected cases of plague and isolate the infected and their families in their homes."

"The medical authorities of the day had little to offer. 'Leave quickly, go far and come back slowly' was the general advice about what to do if an epidemic came to your town."

"Many people left the city, causing a significant drop in the population. Many in the infected area were mill workers and the epidemic effectively brought the textile industry to a halt."

"colonial authorities instituted an aggressive programme of anti-plague measures, including house searches for victims, enforced evacuation of residents in infected areas, detention camps for travellers and the exclusion of traditional medicine practitioners from infected areas."

Lessons from the History of Quarantine, from Plague to Influenza A

"some city-states prevented strangers from entering their cities, particularly, merchants"

"Implementation of these measures required rapid, firm action by authorities, including prompt mobilization of repressive police forces."

"A rigid separation between healthy and infected persons was initially accomplished through the use of makeshift camps"

"A sanitary cordon—not to be broken on pain of death—was imposed by armed guards along transit routes and at access points to cities."
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Let me guess: first link on your first search attempt?
 
AmNat said:
We know much more of the technical aspects of disease transmission, and much less of common sense.

In any case, they did know the most pertinent fact about contagious disease, which is that you can get it from being around an infected person. In spite of that, they never thought to treat their entire populations as infected and isolate all of them.
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nobody but covid 19 positive patients have been isolated
 
AmNat said:
All of the public health measures you've cited were means of quarantining the sick or foreigners (or infected rodents, in the case of British India's enforced evacuations). They didn't impose quarantine on everyone indiscriminately.
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They didn't care about peasants in the dark ages.

Use them up, they'll make more. They were chattel to the ruling class. Something you gained in conquest.

So they went to work or starved or were imprisoned.

While the ruling class likely hid behind safety measures they did not extend to the peasants.

There was no "public safety" concern. Peasants were treated like cattle or other livestock.

So of course they didn't let them stop working.

Why would they?
 
Airyaman said:
Are they? Perhaps yours are. We know much more about how viruses and other contagions spread in the 21st century, they did not know in the 14th century and early 1900s. Had they had such knowledge, how do you know they would not have taken similar measures to prevent the spread?
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They did though.

The fine in San Diego in 1918 for not walearing a mask in public was $30, $562 in today's dollars.

This is just standard conservative re-writing of history in real-time.
 
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