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Hydroxychloroquine. It’s over.

JasperL said:
Well, the point is HCL was touted as an effective treatment, not just as a preventative, or only for mild, early cases. That it's worthless as a treatment for people presenting with symptoms in the hospital is a brand new standard that appears to have arisen only after the early evidence of its use in hospitals has shown if anything it's harmful, not helpful.

I'm just a little fascinated at watching the goal posts move so quickly on the right wing. The "Doctors" in the comments seem to all have accepted that HCL isn't worth a damn for sick people. That's new.
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Actually, it was "touted" as having "great promise".
 
JasperL said:
Well, the point is HCL was touted as an effective treatment, not just as a preventative, or only for mild, early cases. That it's worthless as a treatment for people presenting with symptoms in the hospital is a brand new standard that appears to have arisen only after the early evidence of its use in hospitals has shown if anything it's harmful, not helpful.

I'm just a little fascinated at watching the goal posts move so quickly on the right wing. The "Doctors" in the comments seem to all have accepted that HCL isn't worth a damn for sick people. That's new.
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I have no dog in this fight. In fact I posted the Lancet study that was so negative. But different doctors have different perspectives.
 
Bullseye said:
Actually, it was "touted" as having "great promise".
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More than that, but at any rate the "great promise" was always as a TREATMENT for sick people, those who might otherwise DIE, not as a preventative or a treatment only for very mild cases for those not ill enough to present at the ER/ED.
 
JasperL said:
More than that, but at any rate the "great promise" was always as a TREATMENT for sick people, those who might otherwise DIE, not as a preventative or a treatment only for very mild cases for those not ill enough to present at the ER/ED.
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Actually, if you go back to the beginning you'll find suggestions for use at all stages, and as a prophylactic.
 
Jack Hays said:
Actually, if you go back to the beginning you'll find suggestions for use at all stages, and as a prophylactic.
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Right, and I should have inserted "only" before preventative, etc., but the "Doctors" you quoted have apparently accepted it's useless for serious cases. Again, I missed the memo where HCL shows "great promise" and is a "game changer" but only as a preventative, or for very mild cases early on, but NOT!! for those admitting to the hospital. So now it's not touted as a game changer for "all stages."

I wish the right wingers would release their talking points so I know what I'm supposed to think, when. Would be helpful in interpreting the comments from partisan hacks, which would be a good thing.
 
JasperL said:
More than that, but at any rate the "great promise" was always as a TREATMENT for sick people, those who might otherwise DIE, not as a preventative or a treatment only for very mild cases for those not ill enough to present at the ER/ED.
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Actually, no. I can remember from early on several doctors said they were using it to protect themselves and their families. I don't recall anyone saying it was only for the most serious cases.
 
Bullseye said:
Actually, no. I can remember from early on several doctors said they were using it to protect themselves and their families. I don't recall anyone saying it was only for the most serious cases.
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Yes, I omitted a key word.

"More than that, but at any rate the "great promise" was always as a TREATMENT for sick people, those who might otherwise DIE, not ONLY as a preventative or a treatment only for very mild cases for those not ill enough to present at the ER/ED."

The bolded and underlined clarifies it.

Point is I've seen lately several attempts in the last few days to dismiss the idea that HCL was ever suggested as a treatment for people in a hospital setting. Of course it was, which is why it was suggested as having "great promise" and a "game changer" and why the U.S. ordered 10s of millions of doses - for sick people in the hospital to cure them, hopefully. Those doses weren't going to clinics and GPs offices, or as prophylactics.
 
JasperL said:
Yes, I omitted a key word.

"More than that, but at any rate the "great promise" was always as a TREATMENT for sick people, those who might otherwise DIE, not ONLY as a preventative or a treatment only for very mild cases for those not ill enough to present at the ER/ED."

The bolded and underlined clarifies it.

Point is I've seen lately several attempts in the last few days to dismiss the idea that HCL was ever suggested as a treatment for people in a hospital setting. Of course it was, which is why it was suggested as having "great promise" and a "game changer" and why the U.S. ordered 10s of millions of doses - for sick people in the hospital to cure them, hopefully. Those doses weren't going to clinics and GPs offices, or as prophylactics.
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So, is your main concern whether the drug is useful or not; or whether you have a "gotcha on Trump?
 
Bullseye said:
So, is your main concern whether the drug is useful or not; or whether you have a "gotcha on Trump?
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My views about Trump have no bearing on whether the drug is useful or not. We will know that from the trials, and the study in the Lancet also advances that knowledge. I'll let the evidence speak.

I'm just fascinated by how the talking points from Trump supporters have changed all of a sudden now that the early evidence on HCL does not indicate it's helpful for people in the hospital.

I know studies about its usefulness as a prophylactic for healthcare workers are ongoing. I'd love it if it works for them, and for others. I'd take it tomorrow if indicated. My point was that purpose was NOT why the U.S. ordered 10s of millions of doses.
 
Greenbeard said:
Huh, so the answer to "What have you got to lose?" is "your life."

I wonder how many folks Trump and his fellow hucksters in the rightwing infotainment industry killed by hawking an unproven treatment.
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Helix said:
Don't drink aquarium cleaner or inject Lysol.
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Wow, only got to posts #3 and #4 before Trump Fever set in.
 
Threegoofs said:
There’s a paper out in Lancet today that will probably kill the whole idea of HCQ or chloroquine utility in COVID. It’s observational, but do suggestive of harm that it needs to be taken seriously.

90,000+ COVID patients in hundreds of hospitals worldwide with 15000 getting HCQ or chloroquine.

Results show a substantial INCREASE in mortality, and a quadrupling of ventricular arrhythmias.

This may lead to clinical trials being stopped. It’s also going to be unethical to give this in an outpatient setting with toxicity like that.


Good write up here.

Hydroxychloroquine: Enough Already? | In the Pipeline

e1a206280d3c181192ef94b53eb80608.jpg

6202c9f2fe973e81927d031344d8e7cd.jpg
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Do you suppose Trump's doctor prescribed him a placebo just to get him off his back?
 
Greenbeard said:
Huh, so the answer to "What have you got to lose?" is "your life."

I wonder how many folks Trump and his fellow hucksters in the rightwing infotainment industry killed by hawking an unproven treatment.
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They don't care. In fact, I'm beginning to believe that Trump is actually trying to kill all of us. Or at least all of the people who actually listen to him.
 
Threegoofs said:
There’s a paper out in Lancet today that will probably kill the whole idea of HCQ or chloroquine utility in COVID. It’s observational, but do suggestive of harm that it needs to be taken seriously.

90,000+ COVID patients in hundreds of hospitals worldwide with 15000 getting HCQ or chloroquine.

Results show a substantial INCREASE in mortality, and a quadrupling of ventricular arrhythmias.

This may lead to clinical trials being stopped. It’s also going to be unethical to give this in an outpatient setting with toxicity like that.


Good write up here.

Hydroxychloroquine: Enough Already? | In the Pipeline

e1a206280d3c181192ef94b53eb80608.jpg

6202c9f2fe973e81927d031344d8e7cd.jpg
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The drug has been around for decades before now. There has never been any significant report of the drug being harmful unless it was by ambulance chasers who sue every pharmaceutical company they can over every drug they can as a way to get rich.
 
Grim17 said:
This just confirms what we all have known from day one... It's never been about anything else but politics to the left. They don't give a damn if millions die, as long as they can get Trump.

It used to be that when the country faced a major crisis, politics was put aside and people of all political persuasions came together as Americans.... Thanks to TDS, those days are over. Forget about Covid 19, the TDS epidemic has proven to be a far greater danger to America than any virus could ever be... Finding a cure for TDS needs to be the nations #1 priority.

.
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You just said that Trump's brain dead, baseless snake oil sales of HCQ is the left's fault. And then you said that "TDS", a thing that has never existed, is worse than 100,000 dead people. And two people liked your comment.

Holy ****ing ****.
 
ludin said:
Not sure what they are celebrating. The drug was never being used to combat covid 19 itself.
it was being used to help in the relief of lung distress that the virus was causing.

We all know that such treatments only work so well. If someone already had the virus and existing lung issues
then there is a great chance that the drug would not do anything or have little effect.

in a healthy normal person i could help enough to aviliate some of the lung distress.
no one in their right mind suggested that this was a cure all for covid19 only that it helped
in some cases with lung functions.
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No. You're not allowed to pretend that there's no such thing as videotape. That's Trump's job.
 
Grim17 said:
Unless medical science comes up with a way to do a brain transplant, Joe Biden for president is going to be a tough sell... Especially after the first presidential debate and the American people see how diminished his mental capacity has become.

.
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The presidential debates are going to feature two Alzheimer's patients fighting over the bill for their early bird specials at Denny's.
 
Jack Hays said:
Not having a dog in this fight, I'm relaxed about that (although I did google them). Two self-identify as physicians, the comment section in which they appeared was headed "Health Care Professionals" and the website from which I made the post referred to them as doctors. For purposes of this discussion that's enough.
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You do realize anyone can create an account there and classify themselves as a physician without any checks. Correct?


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Jack Hays said:
Actually, if you go back to the beginning you'll find suggestions for use at all stages, and as a prophylactic.
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Except the FDA EUA doesn’t allow its use outside of a study or a hospital. Why do you suppose that is?


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marke said:
The drug has been around for decades before now. There has never been any significant report of the drug being harmful unless it was by ambulance chasers who sue every pharmaceutical company they can over every drug they can as a way to get rich.
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Why is it not available OTC in the US?


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BlueTex said:
Why is it not available OTC in the US?


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My guess is someone is either trying to make money off oif it or someone is wanting to be able to exercise their control over it.
 
Schism said:
Wow, only got to posts #3 and #4 before Trump Fever set in.
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not drinking aquarium cleaner is actually more like smart fever. it's great advice for those who don't want to get dead.
 
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