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Hydroxychloroquine. It’s over.

apdst said:
You're celebrating because it's been officially poo-poo'ed as a treatment for the china flu because Trump said it might be. Two seconds after Trump mentioned it you were rooting for failure.
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Nope.

Not at all.

I take drug therapy quite seriously.

But it was a bit disturbing how widespread the use became from very sketchy data.

Now, thankfully, the excess death will stop.

And political nut jobs everywhere should search their consciences. But they wont.
 
Threegoofs said:
Nope.

Not at all.

I take drug therapy quite seriously.

But it was a bit disturbing how widespread the use became from very sketchy data.

Now, thankfully, the excess death will stop.

And political nut jobs everywhere should search their consciences. But they wont.
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That's a damn lie and you know it.

You cheered for failure and now you're here to say, "See? See? Told'ja!! Truuuuuuuuuuump!! Tru-Tru-Truuuuuuuuuuump!!!" :lamo
 
Grand Mal said:
Who failed?
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The drug failed to treat the china flu. Sense Trump mentioned, you all are calling it Trump's failure. And don't lie and say you aren't.
 
ludin said:
Not sure what they are celebrating. The drug was never being used to combat covid 19 itself.
it was being used to help in the relief of lung distress that the virus was causing.

We all know that such treatments only work so well. If someone already had the virus and existing lung issues
then there is a great chance that the drug would not do anything or have little effect.

in a healthy normal person i could help enough to aviliate some of the lung distress.
no one in their right mind suggested that this was a cure all for covid19 only that it helped
in some cases with lung functions.
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The micro-second Donald Trump suggested that hydroxychloroquine might be a drug that could help in the fight against the coronavirus, the left made discrediting the drug their top priority... In the eyes of those infected by TDS, hydroxychloroquine must fail or Trump wins. That's why they are celebrating this study.

.
 
Threegoofs said:
There’s a paper out in Lancet today that will probably kill the whole idea of HCQ or chloroquine utility in COVID. It’s observational, but do suggestive of harm that it needs to be taken seriously.

90,000+ COVID patients in hundreds of hospitals worldwide with 15000 getting HCQ or chloroquine.

Results show a substantial INCREASE in mortality, and a quadrupling of ventricular arrhythmias.

This may lead to clinical trials being stopped. It’s also going to be unethical to give this in an outpatient setting with toxicity like that.


Good write up here.

Hydroxychloroquine: Enough Already? | In the Pipeline

e1a206280d3c181192ef94b53eb80608.jpg

6202c9f2fe973e81927d031344d8e7cd.jpg
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I saw this earlier this morning, and must admit it is damning. I hope Trump knows what the hell he's doing when he plays doctor, because the numbers here point otherwise. He's very possibly endangering lives and giving false hope.

But I must play Devil's Advocate here, below:

While this is billed as a "study", let's not conflate it with a "trial", "test", or "experiment". Rather, it is external data analysis of raw data from a plethora of disparate & varied uncontrolled sources.

Which bring me to something that jumped-out at me:

That leaves 81,144 patients as a control group getting other standard of care.
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??

How can there be a "control group", when doing simple external data analysis of disparate uncontrolled sources? I think "control group" is a misnomer, and can be deceiving. There is no "control" here.

In addition, what were the statistical factors where Hydroxy was administered in relation to it not being administered? Could the Hydroxy have been administered more often to those patients that were deemed to be in more morbid conditions? As a "last resort"? A, "What have we got to lose?", scenario? Possibly. We don't know. There were no uniform controlled parameters determining the distribution of the patients into the various therapeutic measures.

So, what are we to make of all this? Based upon the data analysis presented, obviously the use of Hydroxy would seem to not be indicated at this time based upon this analysis alone. Its safety & efficacy can only be determined by legit controlled trials.

So - we seem to be back where we started from, with no real scientific evidence to base our decisions upon, having a plethora of disparate relatively small clinical treatment studies that often lack adequate controls, that seem to be displaying a wide range of safety & efficacy that is not cohesive among the entire group.
 
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Re: Hydroxychloroquine. It’s over.

Visbek said:
Yeah, that's a pretty big blow.

I still think they should continue with randomized controlled studies, as that will further reduce some of the variables that an observational study might not be able to manage.
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Bingo! I make the same argument in post #32, above.

But I don't expect a significantly different outcome.

So, the real question is how boosters like Laura Ingrahm will take it. Sadly, we know already that the reactions of the more extreme boosters is ultimately partisan, rather than scientific... (e.g. Coronavirus gets a promising drug. MAGA world isn’t buying it. - POLITICO)
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Quite possibly, but we don't know. As you allude to, there is a functional substantive difference between passive external observation, and active controlled scientific trial.
 
apdst said:
The drug failed to treat the china flu. Sense Trump mentioned, you all are calling it Trump's failure. And don't lie and say you aren't.
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Oh, the whole world is laughing at the Bozo you idolize, no denying that. The really funny part though isn't that the drug "failed" the test but that Bozo would do such a stupid thing in the first place. The drug could have passed with colours flying, and who knows, it still might prove to be useful, but it was stupid to soundly endorse it before it was tested.
And you know it. That's why you're so pissed off about this.
What do you think about Trumps claim that he's been taking it daily for two weeks now? Does that sound like a smart thing to do?
 
Grand Mal said:
Oh, the whole world is laughing at the Bozo you idolize, no denying that. The really funny part though isn't that the drug "failed" the test but that Bozo would do such a stupid thing in the first place. The drug could have passed with colours flying, and who knows, it still might prove to be useful, but it was stupid to soundly endorse it before it was tested.
And you know it. That's why you're so pissed off about this.
What do you think about Trumps claim that he's been taking it daily for two weeks now? Does that sound like a smart thing to do?
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Yep. With the bolded, you described the Trump problem perfectly.
 
Grim17 said:
The micro-second Donald Trump suggested that hydroxychloroquine might be a drug that could help in the fight against the coronavirus, the left made discrediting the drug their top priority...
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Oh, really? Then why didn't "the left" dump on remdesivir?

May 1st: "I’m pleased to announce that Gilead now has an EUA from the FDA for remdesivir. And you know what that is because that’s been the hot thing also in the papers and in the media for the last little while. An important treatment for hospitalized coronavirus patients. And it’s something — I spoke with Dr. Hahn and Dr. Fauci; I spoke with Deborah about it. And it’s — it’s really a very promising situation."
Remarks by President Trump in Announcement on Remdesivir

He didn't call remdesivir a "miracle drug," but he did call it a "game changer" on March 19th. And yet, no one is bashing remdesivir.

Hmmmmm.
 
apdst said:
That's a damn lie and you know it.

You cheered for failure and now you're here to say, "See? See? Told'ja!! Truuuuuuuuuuump!! Tru-Tru-Truuuuuuuuuuump!!!" :lamo
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I was clear in my post.

You’re just demonstrating why having you on ignore makes sense.
 
Chomsky said:
I saw this earlier this morning, and must admit it is damning. I hope Trump knows what the hell he's doing when he plays doctor, because the numbers here point otherwise. He's very possibly endangering lives and giving false hope.

But I must play Devil's Advocate here, below:

While this is billed as a "study", let's not conflate it with a "trial", "test", or "experiment". Rather, it is external data analysis of raw data from a plethora of disparate & varied uncontrolled sources.

Which bring me to something that jumped-out at me:



??

How can there be a "control group", when doing simple external data analysis of disparate uncontrolled sources? I think "control group" is a misnomer, and can be deceiving. There is no "control" here.

In addition, what were the statistical factors where Hydroxy was administered in relation to it not being administered? Could the Hydroxy have been administered more often to those patients that were deemed to be in more morbid conditions? As a "last resort"? A, "What have we got to lose?", scenario? Possibly. We don't know. There were no uniform controlled parameters determining the distribution of the patients into the various therapeutic measures.

So, what are we to make of all this? Based upon the data analysis presented, obviously the use of Hydroxy would seem to not be indicated at this time based upon this analysis alone. Its safety & efficacy can only be determined by legit controlled trials.

So - we seem to be back where we started from, with no real scientific evidence to base our decisions upon, having a plethora of disparate relatively small clinical treatment studies that often lack adequate controls, that seem to be displaying a wide range of safety & efficacy that is not cohesive among the entire group.
Click to expand...

Well, we are not back to where we started.

It’s quite clear from observational data that there’s a clear signal of harm, and this is one of several studies that indicates that harm is exactly what was predicted - an increase in ventricular arrhythmias, made worse by adding azithromycin (a macrolide).

While it’s not a RCT, this will inform future RCTs. With the data present, it’s frankly unethical to start a trial of HCQ. It’s debatable if continuing is ethical either.
 
Visbek said:
Oh, really? Then why didn't "the left" dump on remdesivir?

May 1st: "I’m pleased to announce that Gilead now has an EUA from the FDA for remdesivir. And you know what that is because that’s been the hot thing also in the papers and in the media for the last little while. An important treatment for hospitalized coronavirus patients. And it’s something — I spoke with Dr. Hahn and Dr. Fauci; I spoke with Deborah about it. And it’s — it’s really a very promising situation."
Remarks by President Trump in Announcement on Remdesivir

He didn't call remdesivir a "miracle drug," but he did call it a "game changer" on March 19th. And yet, no one is bashing remdesivir.

Hmmmmm.
Click to expand...

Well....remdisivir clearly doesn’t look like a ‘game changer’, although it might be helpful.
 
Threegoofs said:
There’s a paper out in Lancet today that will probably kill the whole idea of HCQ or chloroquine utility in COVID. It’s observational, but do suggestive of harm that it needs to be taken seriously.

90,000+ COVID patients in hundreds of hospitals worldwide with 15000 getting HCQ or chloroquine.

Results show a substantial INCREASE in mortality, and a quadrupling of ventricular arrhythmias.

This may lead to clinical trials being stopped. It’s also going to be unethical to give this in an outpatient setting with toxicity like that.


Good write up here.

Hydroxychloroquine: Enough Already? | In the Pipeline

e1a206280d3c181192ef94b53eb80608.jpg

6202c9f2fe973e81927d031344d8e7cd.jpg
Click to expand...

Never interrupt your enemy while he is making a mistake. Shhhhh
 
Grim17 said:
This just confirms what we all have known from day one... It's never been about anything else but politics to the left. They don't give a damn if millions die, as long as they can get Trump.

It used to be that when the country faced a major crisis, politics was put aside and people of all political persuasions came together as Americans.... Thanks to TDS, those days are over. Forget about Covid 19, the TDS epidemic has proven to be a far greater danger to America than any virus could ever be... Finding a cure for TDS needs to be the nations #1 priority.

.
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Don't worry, President Biden's medical experts will find a cure for TDS.
 
Grim17 said:
The micro-second Donald Trump suggested that hydroxychloroquine might be a drug that could help in the fight against the coronavirus, the left made discrediting the drug their top priority... In the eyes of those infected by TDS, hydroxychloroquine must fail or Trump wins. That's why they are celebrating this study.

.
Click to expand...

That's not true. The problem was always Trump pimping an unproven drug with known bad side effects from the White House. It's really not that hard to understand. All he had to do was just let the medical community speak for the benefits and risks of a particular drug, and not insert his ignorant, lying opinions into the mix.
 
d0gbreath said:
Don't worry, President Biden's medical experts will find a cure for TDS.
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Unless medical science comes up with a way to do a brain transplant, Joe Biden for president is going to be a tough sell... Especially after the first presidential debate and the American people see how diminished his mental capacity has become.

.
 
Grim17 said:
Unless medical science comes up with a way to do a brain transplant, Joe Biden for president is going to be a tough sell... Especially after the first presidential debate and the American people see how diminished his mental capacity has become.

.
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Will Trump not be speaking?
 
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