• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

More than 1,200 pastors say they'll defy California's state order and resume in-person services

Dayton3 said:
Good for them. This entire shutdown thing has been insane and an utter waste of time.
Click to expand...

Well then I suggest you attend church and have a covid party. I will reserve a Darwin for you.
 
Top Cat said:
Well then I suggest you attend church and have a covid party. I will reserve a Darwin for you.
Click to expand...

Except for the couple of weeks where we didn't have church I've been to church every time it as met (Sunday mornings these days).

Given I have no friends and my wife and I live in a small house so we never have parties.
 
Top Cat said:
I trust these guys as far as I can throw them. Churches are a perfect incubator.
Click to expand...

They don't need your trust and your trust will have no impact on their decisions. My city's total infections is right at 1/10th of 1% and we have only officially had 1 death (though I am pretty sure there were a couple others that were not facebook official). It will spread in some churches and not others as they move toward normal operations. That is just commons sense.
 
Arrest all the Christians. I dare them.
 
Moot said:
Jesus was a communist.
Click to expand...

I love when anti-religion bigots tell people what Jesus was or wasn’t and what he would or wouldn’t support.

Jesus wasn’t a communist because communism is a form of govt and Jesus didn’t support any form of govt saying render to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s
 
apdst said:
Link, baby. You know better than that.

Cuomo: Most new NY coronavirus hospitalizations are from people who stayed home
Click to expand...

Ahh... as expected, you are confused as to what this data means. So while 2/3 of people who were hospitalized lived in a private residence, we don't know how they kept themselves distanced, nor do we know what lifestyle changes they made. Now with that said, i highly doubt people living in nursing homes make up 18% of the population distribution... and i highly doubt these people went out and mingled with others.

Thanks for the amazing exhibition of reading comprehension. :lol:
 
Court Jester said:
Here is my take on this.

Most churches in California are small tiny congregations of less than 40 people. Most of those are actually more like a business and for the purpose of providing a job and income to those pastors who rely on money from the congregation to pay their rent and put food on the table. So when we think of "churches" making this decision, it isn't like they are mostly your larger established Catholic and Protestant denomination churches with larger congregations. Many "churches" today operate out of homes and small strip mall store fronts.

I think it is important to be able to distinguish between religious organizations which are really just into it for the money. Those may be large mega churches, or tiny home mission churches. But if it is about the money, or paying the bills, or keeping the flow of dollars into the church leader's pockets---then we should be questioning this decision.

In my opinion you don't need a building or a place to get the message across today. If schools and businesses can still operate remotely for now under the pandemic, then so can most churches. The good churches, the ones who are really on the up and up, will be proceeding with caution and with regard to their members not based on losses in revenue.
Click to expand...

Where did you get that number 40 from?

Rather Biblical number
 
apdst said:
The resistance to the tyrannical coody codes is growing to the point where the state will be unable to police it without spilling blood.

Spilling blood, just to enforce the coody codes will only make things worse for the government.
Click to expand...

What is coody?
 
Top Cat said:
More than 1,200 pastors say they'll defy California's state order and resume in-person services - CNN

This is a ticking time bomb.
Click to expand...

Good for them. If people want to go to church, they should be able to do so.

The state needs to stop playing mommy and daddy to grown adults, and allow them to make their own decisions. Everyone knows the risks and if some people are scared they might get the virus, they're free to hide in their basements for as long as they want to... But don't force people to hide against their will.

Covid 19 definitely sux, but I am seeing a silver lining here. Over the years more and more young people have embraced many of the philosophies of socialism, which includes a stronger, more controlling central government, without ever living it or seeing it in action. The coronavirus is an issue where each individual state decides how to deal with it, rather than the federal government making those decisions for everyone. Because of that, people are going to see first hand what a more controlling central government looks like, and what a less controlling, more freedom oriented government looks like, and that's the silver lining I'm talking about...

When this thing is over, the people that have pushed for a stronger central government will have for the first time, gotten a little preview of what that would actually be like from states like California, New York and Michigan, and I don't think it's going to be a net positive for the progressive political movement.

.
 
Drawdown said:
Doubtful. Churches are weighing their risks. Some are doing mask only and only families sit close to each other. One in my hood is doing parking lot services. Some I know are going to remain online only for next month at least even though they can re-open legally.
Click to expand...

If they follow SD rules, wear masks and clean the church if it has multiple services during the day
 
lwf said:
How Christian of them to put themselves above their neighbors.
Click to expand...

You might note the Christians, as well as others, on this list:

"One has a moral responsibility to disobey unjust laws.”
― Martin Luther King Jr.

“Protest beyond the law is not a departure from democracy; it is absolutely essential to it.”
― Howard Zinn

“An individual who breaks a law that conscience tells him is unjust, and who willingly accepts the penalty of imprisonment in order to arouse the conscience of the community over its injustice, is in reality expressing the highest respect for the law”
― Martin Luther King Jr.

“I became convinced that noncooperation with evil is as much a moral obligation as is cooperation with good.”
― Martin Luther King Jr., The Autobiography of Martin Luther King, Jr.

“If a plant cannot live according to its nature, it dies; and so a man.”
― Henry David Thoreau, Civil Disobedience and Other Essays

“An unjust law is itself a species of violence. Arrest for its breach is more so. Now the law of nonviolence says that violence should be resisted not by counter-violence but by nonviolence. This I do by breaking the law and by peacefully submitting to arrest and imprisonment.”
― Mahatma Gandhi, Non-violence in Peace and War 1942-49

“Civil disobedience, as I put it to the audience, was not the problem, despite the warnings of some that it threatened social stability, that it led to anarchy. The greatest danger, I argued, was civil obedience, the submission of individual conscience to governmental authority. Such obedience led to the horrors we saw in totalitarian states, and in liberal states it led to the public's acceptance of war whenever the so-called democratic government decided on it...

In such a world, the rule of law maintains things as they are. Therefore, to begin the process of change, to stop a war, to establish justice, it may be necessary to break the law, to commit acts of civil disobedience, as Southern black did, as antiwar protesters did.”
― Howard Zinn, You Can't Be Neutral on a Moving Train: A Personal History of Our Times

“One has not only a legal, but a moral responsibility to obey just laws. Conversely, one has a moral responsibility to disobey unjust laws.”
― Martin Luther King Jr., Letter from the Birmingham Jail

“An unjust law is itself a species of violence. Arrest for its breach is more so.”
― Mahatma Gandhi


Let the police come. Let us see the tear gas hurled into congregations, the billy clubs, the rubber shot striking parishioners down. Let them handcuff mothers with crying babies and screaming children. The the crypto Nazi's of the left open their hand and show us his corrupted and venal soul...

If I find the resistance anywhere in my area, I too will join them. Let them beat this old man, let them strike me with their jackboots...let the world know we fight for our the unalienable rights man...

Strike down a forest of human rights...and you will see the winds that will blow.
 
maxparrish said:
You might note the Christians, as well as others, on this list:

"One has a moral responsibility to disobey unjust laws.”
― Martin Luther King Jr.

“Protest beyond the law is not a departure from democracy; it is absolutely essential to it.”
― Howard Zinn

“An individual who breaks a law that conscience tells him is unjust, and who willingly accepts the penalty of imprisonment in order to arouse the conscience of the community over its injustice, is in reality expressing the highest respect for the law”
― Martin Luther King Jr.

“I became convinced that noncooperation with evil is as much a moral obligation as is cooperation with good.”
― Martin Luther King Jr., The Autobiography of Martin Luther King, Jr.

“If a plant cannot live according to its nature, it dies; and so a man.”
― Henry David Thoreau, Civil Disobedience and Other Essays

“An unjust law is itself a species of violence. Arrest for its breach is more so. Now the law of nonviolence says that violence should be resisted not by counter-violence but by nonviolence. This I do by breaking the law and by peacefully submitting to arrest and imprisonment.”
― Mahatma Gandhi, Non-violence in Peace and War 1942-49

“Civil disobedience, as I put it to the audience, was not the problem, despite the warnings of some that it threatened social stability, that it led to anarchy. The greatest danger, I argued, was civil obedience, the submission of individual conscience to governmental authority. Such obedience led to the horrors we saw in totalitarian states, and in liberal states it led to the public's acceptance of war whenever the so-called democratic government decided on it...

In such a world, the rule of law maintains things as they are. Therefore, to begin the process of change, to stop a war, to establish justice, it may be necessary to break the law, to commit acts of civil disobedience, as Southern black did, as antiwar protesters did.”
― Howard Zinn, You Can't Be Neutral on a Moving Train: A Personal History of Our Times

“One has not only a legal, but a moral responsibility to obey just laws. Conversely, one has a moral responsibility to disobey unjust laws.”
― Martin Luther King Jr., Letter from the Birmingham Jail

“An unjust law is itself a species of violence. Arrest for its breach is more so.”
― Mahatma Gandhi


Let the police come. Let us see the tear gas hurled into congregations, the billy clubs, the rubber shot striking parishioners down. Let them handcuff mothers with crying babies and screaming children. The the crypto Nazi's of the left open their hand and show us his corrupted and venal soul...

If I find the resistance anywhere in my area, I too will join them. Let them beat this old man, let them strike me with their jackboots...let the world know we fight for our the unalienable rights man...

Strike down a forest of human rights...and you will see the winds that will blow.
Click to expand...

Getting a little dramatic ain't ya. Lay off the koolaid for a while.
 
Dayton3 said:
Except for the couple of weeks where we didn't have church I've been to church every time it as met (Sunday mornings these days).

Given I have no friends and my wife .
Click to expand...

Color me shocked.
 
Mongidig said:
Keeping people locked up is a ticking time bomb. If the speed limit is 80 and the government comes in and says the speed limit is now 10 people are gonna start saying F this and speed. The better approach is to Lower the speed limit from 80 to 50. There has to be some level of reasonableness.
Click to expand...

no one is being locked up. God can be worshiped in many ways
 
Grim17 said:
Good for them. If people want to go to church, they should be able to do so.

The state needs to stop playing mommy and daddy to grown adults, and allow them to make their own decisions. Everyone knows the risks and if some people are scared they might get the virus, they're free to hide in their basements for as long as they want to... But don't force people to hide against their will.

Covid 19 definitely sux, but I am seeing a silver lining here. Over the years more and more young people have embraced many of the philosophies of socialism, which includes a stronger, more controlling central government, without ever living it or seeing it in action. The coronavirus is an issue where each individual state decides how to deal with it, rather than the federal government making those decisions for everyone. Because of that, people are going to see first hand what a more controlling central government looks like, and what a less controlling, more freedom oriented government looks like, and that's the silver lining I'm talking about...

When this thing is over, the people that have pushed for a stronger central government will have for the first time, gotten a little preview of what that would actually be like from states like California, New York and Michigan, and I don't think it's going to be a net positive for the progressive political movement.

.
Click to expand...

The problem with your contention, this is a public health issue. They are putting lots of innocent people at risk. You can't yell fire in a movie theater.
 
apdst said:
They know that, but they're enjoying the government targetting Christians.
Click to expand...

who wants to target Christians? You just enjoy thinking you're a martyr
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom