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Reopening, the facts

Conservative said:
Getting Trump and maintaining power is exactly the liberal ideology and effort, Trump will be out of office after his second term due to term limits, there are none for career bureaucrats. Why is it so important to you that others aren't practicing social distancing, what effect does that have on you and your efforts?

Mandated social distancing does exactly what the liberals want, massive central gov't and the nanny state which is the source of their power. Conservative policies recognize that there are consequences, both good or bad, with choices you make. You take care of your own and you won't get the CV, if someone else does how does that affect you? this isn't about compassion this is about control
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It affects me when someone else who doesn't practice social distancing contracts COVID-19, accidentally infects someone who I know, who then touches something that I touch which infects me, and then while asymptomatic I deliver food to my grandmother, accidentally infect her, and she dies. Only instead of just me, it affects people exponentially. This is why quarantine is required in cases of a deadly viral pandemic, and when said pandemic is asymptomatic for an extended period, and ubiquitous testing is unavailable, EVERYONE must social distance to prevent uncontrolled spread of the virus. If even a few refuse, then the pandemic worsens.

If everyone did it voluntarily, then it wouldn't need to be mandatory. It is because of people like you who preach against it that social distancing has to be mandatory. You are being hoisted by your own petard.
 
Luckyone said:
If you are going to be factual, using the same chart I supplied above, you will notice that we did not report cases because of a lack of testing until the 3rd week of March, a full 2 months after the first reported case of infection in the United States the third week of January.

That is 2 months of the country (because of the president) not doing anything. It is fact that the best way to control the virus is by testing and putting those infected into quarentine. We did not do that because Trump pooh-poohed the virus.

Comparing to other countries and their results does not make Trump's response a good one. We are not in a contest of who did the best. We are in a life and death situation where even one unnecessary death is one too much. We are supposed to be the #1 country in the world as far as pandemic response and we failed to be the best at the response we had. It is all on Trump and many of the deaths are his fault.
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Seventy five years ago quarantine of infected persons was accepted as a natural part of life because we lacked even the most basic vaccines against most of these viruses and other pathogens. Officials just stationed themselves and shoved food through the door for two or three weeks and no one was allowed in or out under any circumstances.

Being that it's seventy-five years ago most people who would remember this are now dead.
We have lost our collective memory of epidemics.

Images like this one are very clear in MY OWN mind from childhood.

Polio-Pioneers.jpg


And that's because images like THIS ONE were also very clear in my mind from my childhood.

polio_weve_been_here_before03_wide-f92415f224accf0421b869e7e6b1cfb2a6323175-s800-c85.jpg


If I remember correctly there's only about six to ten people still living who need to be in an iron lung.
Are we really so collectively stupid that a generation from now we will be hearing about people who need to stay on assistive breathing or extra oxygen for the rest of their miserable lives because we couldn't follow simple public health emergency directives?
 
Conservative said:
I posted official data, you call it a lie, take it up with the source. You don't like the data therefore it is made up, prove it? Your support for European socialist economy will lead to the socialist economic and social results, so far not a pretty picture

5/19/2020 Cases Deaths

United States 1558631 92259 5.9%

Spain 278188 27778 10.0%

Italy 226699 32169 14.2%

England 268818 35341 13.1%

France 143427 28022 19.5%

Netherlands 44447 5748 12.9%

Canada 79112 5912 7.5%

Germany 177827 8193 4.6%

Coronavirus (COVID-19) live map tracker from Microsoft Bing
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As I already pointed out, even taking the worst case of Italy, the US has 5.5 times the population of Italy, yet 6.9 times the number of cases, and Italy is far more densely populated. That means the US did worse than Italy in handling the outbreak. You know that, otherwise you wouldn't be trying to make excuses about why we did so bad in the same breath.
 
ElChupacabra said:
Non sequitur. The point of tests are to determine how many people are infected. Are the tests flawed? There are issues that need to be resolved. Does that make them worthless? Not as worthless as having no data at all.
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Again you continue to focus on testing and not the attempts to remove freedoms from the American people. You aren't infected, your kids and family aren't infected, what is it that you are doing that the American public cannot do? Why is it mandatory for a federal bureaucrat to do an unconstitutional act against the American people when all it takes is logic and common sense?
 
Conservative said:
I posted official data, you call it a lie, take it up with the source. You don't like the data therefore it is made up, prove it? Your support for European socialist economy will lead to the socialist economic and social results, so far not a pretty picture

5/19/2020 Cases Deaths

United States 1558631 92259 5.9%

Spain 278188 27778 10.0%

Italy 226699 32169 14.2%

England 268818 35341 13.1%

France 143427 28022 19.5%

Netherlands 44447 5748 12.9%

Canada 79112 5912 7.5%

Germany 177827 8193 4.6%

Coronavirus (COVID-19) live map tracker from Microsoft Bing
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That data is not representative of the healthcare response. Please show us the methodology on how you arrived at that conclusion from that data.
 
Metric Mouse said:
Maybe it is callous. It happens when there is so much pain and death that can't be prevented. What would your plan be, if you were King for a month, to move forward from where we are now?
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Life and knowledge are precious, meaning that life needs to be protected and knowledge is what helps protecting it. Neither of these does Trump possess.

Life is always a risk but if you follow the advice of those that have the expertise to know what is the best option for going forward, I would be willing to follow it. For example, I trust the doctors to tell me what to do with whatever I am suffering from. I am not about to do what I think rashly. The same applies here with Covid-19. If you can't see that, then you are someone who is rash and who does not respect knowledge or expertise. Simple as that.

I have always followed what the doctors tell me to do. For example, I have a pace maker that I did not believe I needed when I was told I needed it. Nonetheless, I had it put in over 10 years ago and it has helped me through a lot of problems. If I had not followed the doctors suggestion, I probably would not be here today.

Common sense makes common sense. I don't see you using yours.
 
longview said:
I am only wrong in your opinion, without any supporting links or citations.
Fact, The US choose to develop our own Covid-19 test.
Fact, it took longer than anticipated to get that test working in the volume necessary.
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Okay, if you say so. In your world, your opinion is the only one that counts. I stopped trying to show facts to Trump supporters because they only see the facts they want to see. I see you are no different.
 
lwf said:
It affects me when someone else who doesn't practice social distancing contracts COVID-19, accidentally infects someone who I know, who then touches something that I touch which infects me, and then while asymptomatic I deliver food to my grandmother, accidentally infect her, and she dies. Only instead of just me, it affects people exponentially. This is why quarantine is required in cases of a deadly viral pandemic, and when said pandemic is asymptomatic for an extended period, and ubiquitous testing is unavailable, EVERYONE must social distance to prevent uncontrolled spread of the virus. If even a few refuse, then the pandemic worsens.

If everyone did it voluntarily, then it wouldn't need to be mandatory. It is because of people like you who preach against it that social distancing has to be mandatory. You are being hoisted by your own petard.
Click to expand...

Why isn't someone you know practicing social distancing or staying home? why is it that you have no problem with a gov't taking away a freedom to make a choice simply because there may be a negative consequence that won't affect you if you practice what you are doing now?

You keep buying the liberal rhetoric that the ideology really cares about the American people, when the ideology only cares about creating more power and more bureaucratic control and wealth
 
ElChupacabra said:
That data is not representative of the healthcare response. Please show us the methodology on how you arrived at that conclusion from that data.
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Of course it is, who are these people in Europe getting treated?
 
RabidAlpaca said:
As I already pointed out, even taking the worst case of Italy, the US has 5.5 times the population of Italy, yet 6.9 times the number of cases, and Italy is far more densely populated. That means the US did worse than Italy in handling the outbreak. You know that, otherwise you wouldn't be trying to make excuses about why we did so bad in the same breath.
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And yet the numbers for Italy continue to grow just like they do in the U.S. their percentage is higher today than it was yesterday, the U.S. isn't
 
Conservative said:
Why isn't someone you know practicing social distancing or staying home? why is it that you have no problem with a gov't taking away a freedom to make a choice simply because there may be a negative consequence that won't affect you if you practice what you are doing now?

You keep buying the liberal rhetoric that the ideology really cares about the American people, when the ideology only cares about creating more power and more bureaucratic control and wealth
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No, the liberal ideology cares about the people. The GOP rhetoric is that liberal ideology only cares about creating more power and more bureaucratic control and wealth. In fact, with reduced regulation, big business lobbyists, and an anti-union stance, it is the conservatives who care only about increasing bureaucratic wealth.
 
Conservative said:
And yet the numbers for Italy continue to grow just like they do in the U.S. their percentage is higher today than it was yesterday, the U.S. isn't
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I'm glad you've at least accepted that we have performed worse than Italy, but you're now moving the goal posts.
 
Conservative said:
Again you continue to focus on testing and not the attempts to remove freedoms from the American people.
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I'm responding to the erroneous claim that testing doesn't matter if there isn't social distancing. The two serve different functions. Should they work in tandem? Sure. Can you have one without the other? Of course, because testing is also for data collection to help guide social distancing strategy.


You aren't infected, your kids and family aren't infected, what is it that you are doing that the American public cannot do? Why is it mandatory for a federal bureaucrat to do an unconstitutional act against the American people when all it takes is logic and common sense?
Click to expand...

There's that adage of common sense being not so common; it's why societies develop rules. The original strategy was to prevent the disease from spreading more rapidly than it already was; which impacts the economy up front. A delayed reaction (or none at all) would have done so later on and at likely higher volume.
 
RabidAlpaca said:
I'm glad you've at least accepted that we have performed worse than Italy, but you're now moving the goal posts.
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The results don't show that but thanks for showing us what you believe and how your ideology trumps actual results
 
ElChupacabra said:
I'm responding to the erroneous claim that testing doesn't matter if there isn't social distancing. The two serve different functions. Should they work in tandem? Sure. Can you have one without the other? Of course, because testing is also for data collection to help guide social distancing strategy.




There's that adage of common sense being not so common; it's why societies develop rules. The original strategy was to prevent the disease from spreading more rapidly than it already was; which impacts the economy up front. A delayed reaction (or none at all) would have done so later on and at likely higher volume.
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If you want to get tested you can get tested so what is your issue? Delayed reaction?? LOL, no just typical liberal diversion from the reality that testing doesn't prevent the disease in captures data ON the disease if the tests are accurate
 
Luckyone said:
Life and knowledge are precious, meaning that life needs to be protected and knowledge is what helps protecting it. Neither of these does Trump possess.

Life is always a risk but if you follow the advice of those that have the expertise to know what is the best option for going forward, I would be willing to follow it. For example, I trust the doctors to tell me what to do with whatever I am suffering from. I am not about to do what I think rashly. The same applies here with Covid-19. If you can't see that, then you are someone who is rash and who does not respect knowledge or expertise. Simple as that.

I have always followed what the doctors tell me to do. For example, I have a pace maker that I did not believe I needed when I was told I needed it. Nonetheless, I had it put in over 10 years ago and it has helped me through a lot of problems. If I had not followed the doctors suggestion, I probably would not be here today.

Common sense makes common sense. I don't see you using yours.
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So you don't have any specific advice or wishes? I thought so. Seems like the people who are making the decisions have more info than you do, which may be why they are making choices that you do not understand.
 
RabidAlpaca said:
We have a higher rate of infection than even Italy. You saw this and acknowledged it. Facts matter.
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LOL, So now it is infections that matter not deaths? Interesting, now of course that is Trump's fault right? Trump cased the pandemic to come to this country?
 
Conservative said:
LOL, So now it is infections that matter not deaths? Interesting, now of course that is Trump's fault right? Trump cased the pandemic to come to this country?
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Deaths per population do matter. If the US has a 6% death rate and a comparable country has a 10% death rate, but the US has 5 times as many infections adjusted by population, the death rate is higher. You're intentionally misrepresenting the facts.
 
Metric Mouse said:
I hope I'm wrong! But as we cross the 100k mark with no end in sight, I don't see how this magically goes away with less than 1 million casualties in the United States.
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If you plot it out over time, the potential deaths are infinite.
 
Conservative said:
LOL, So now it is infections that matter not deaths? Interesting, now of course that is Trump's fault right? Trump cased the pandemic to come to this country?
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Your position is not about deaths, illnesses or anything else actually related. You care about protecting Trump. That is your full agenda. The rest doesn't seem important to you.
 
Luckyone said:
I want to make everyone aware of a graph regarding the Corona Virus infections per day and what happened yesterday when the country basically "reopened"

I was actually shocked given that most Trump supporters are saying that reopening is the right thing to do given that the virus has plateaued. This graph states the opposite.

This graph is of the daily infection cases per day up to yesterday. Please note the spike up to new highs of infections yesterday.

View attachment 67281128
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Yea, there will be more cases when re-opening, as there will be more people. Not saying its not serious, but its kind of inevitable that there will be more cases when re-opening (as well as a result of testing more, don't forget that aspect).
 
As long as Trump is president most progressive Democrats desperately and furiously want anything and everything that most harms the United States and Americans.
 
Luckyone said:
Whatever explanation you want to give it, whether right or wrong, does not change the fact that we are not following the CDC guidelines and it will mean unnecessary deaths will occur. Whether is it one or many, unnecessary deaths are exactly that...............unnecessary.
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Flattening the curve is over. Authoritarians are trying to move the goalposts. There is no cure, and there's no reason to stay locked down. We have to live despite the risks of life.
 
Kreton said:
Your position is not about deaths, illnesses or anything else actually related. You care about protecting Trump. That is your full agenda. The rest doesn't seem important to you.
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Protecting Trump? NO, exposing the liberal bias and desires to use scare tactics to gain political points and put Biden in the WH!! You want to talk issues, bring it on, all you want to do is place blame and ignore the issues like the freedoms you would take away from Americans giving bureaucrats more power
 
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