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Covid 19 deaths per Million in EU

Dannytoro1 said:
The US and Trump get a lot of flack over the Covid mortality rate.

But over in the EU many top EU countries are double of close to triple the USA Covid 19 mortality of 5.98% as of this morning. 275.5 dead per 1 million residents.

Some exceptions like Germany. And non-lockdown Sweden at 10%.

Why?
Click to expand...

Confirming your data

5/18/2020 Cases Deaths

United States 1537830 90694 5.9%

Spain 278188 27709 10.0%

Italy 225435 31908 14.2%

England 246406 34796 14.1%

France 142903 28239 19.8%

Netherlands 44141 5694 12.9%

Canada 78072 5842 7.5%

Germany 177289 8123 4.6%

Coronavirus (COVID-19) live map tracker from Microsoft Bing
 
The AntiDonald said:
OK. I'll agree with that moving forward. Would you so called adults be willing to wear a mask to protect your neighbors and family's?

Any one that has not been tested does not know if they're carrying and spreading the virus. Considering that maybe 3-4% have been tested, that's a whole lot of people playing Russian Roulette.

You call yourselves adults, but refuse to act that way.
Click to expand...

How often would you demand I be tested? Weekly? Daily? Hourly just so your fears and anxiety are mollified?
 
Jack Fabulous said:
Just for some perspective, here are some statistics as of yesterday.

Spain, population 46.94 million, 231,000 total infections, .492% of the population

Italy, population 60.36 million, 224,000 total infections, .371% of the population

United Kingdom, population 66.65 million, 240,000 total infections, .36% of the population

Germany, population 83.02 million, 176,000 total infections, .21% of the population

Canada, population 37.59 million, 75,770 total infections, .20% of the population

United States, population 328.2 million, 1,450,000 total infections, .441% of the population


(stats provided by a quick google search and some basic math)
Click to expand...

Yes and here are the latest stats as of 5/18

5/18/2020 Cases Deaths Percentage

United States 1537830 90694 5.9%

Spain 278188 27709 10.0%

Italy 225435 31908 14.2%

England 246406 34796 14.1%

France 142903 28239 19.8%

Netherlands 44141 5694 12.9%

Canada 78072 5842 7.5%

Germany 177289 8123 4.6%

Coronavirus (COVID-19) live map tracker from Microsoft Bing
 
snakestretcher said:
Because taken as a whole Europe is 3.5 times more densely populated than the US and, as we know, the virus multiplies most efficiently with proximity.

US States Overlaid On Areas of Europe With Equal Population – MoverDB.com

EU and US States by Population Density -- Stocking Blue
Click to expand...

That isn't the catch-all explanation you think it is. There are extreme disparities in COVID-19 infection rate and mortality even in densely populated regions.

Germany is more densely populated than Italy, and their outcomes are very different.

Netherlands is the most densely populated country in Europe and it is nowhere near the worst hit.

There is more of a correlation in policy and severity than in population density and severity. The reason is that as high as 2/3rds of all cases were caught from someone sharing a living space, so after the virus broke out, quarantine was probably the exactly wrong choice in most places since it gave the virus time and confined space to spread.

Also, the largest group of mortality in the US, at least, was in nursing homes, predominantly in states like New York where state policy was to force active COVID-19 patients back in to nursing homes.. last I checked, nursing homes were the source of over 40% of New York state deaths.
 
Jack Fabulous said:
Just for some perspective, here are some statistics as of yesterday.

Spain, population 46.94 million, 231,000 total infections, .492% of the population

Italy, population 60.36 million, 224,000 total infections, .371% of the population

United Kingdom, population 66.65 million, 240,000 total infections, .36% of the population

Germany, population 83.02 million, 176,000 total infections, .21% of the population

Canada, population 37.59 million, 75,770 total infections, .20% of the population

United States, population 328.2 million, 1,450,000 total infections, .441% of the population


(stats provided by a quick google search and some basic math)
Click to expand...

That is more of a function of the extent of testing than anything else. The vast majority of people infected with COVID-19 never develop symptoms severe enough to land them in the hospital, or even a doctor's office.

The US testing reaches deeper into that population than most national testing programs at this point, so will discover more asymptomatic, or mild cases than other nations who are testing at point of treatment or conduct fewer tests in general.
 
lwf said:
The coronavirus is anything but mild. The most destructive viruses are ones with a high rate of infection, long incubation period, and a relatively low mortality rate. Viruses with a high mortality rate kill fewer people overall because the virus essentially starves itself of hosts. A mortality rate of 6% is devastating, because the numbers of potential human casualties are well into the hundreds of millions. It is a devastating pandemic that must be mitigated at all costs, even if that means an economic recession. A recession is worth far less than 500 million human lives.
Click to expand...

Stating a mortality of 6% is at least an order of magnitude too high. There is ample evidence provided by serological surveys in many countries that put the infection fatality at around 0.5%, ballpark. Also, if you consider small, rich countries that are able to keep up with PCR testing for the antigen (see Iceland, Singapore as examples) the fatality rate is around 0.5%, even when only considering deaths/(recovered+deaths).

Having said this, I'm not one to downplay the seriousness of the virus. Considering that the vast majority of the population has not yet been infected, even at 0.5% fatal, if left unmitigated this will be devastating for many societies.
 
American conservatives are a trip lol. Spend years ****ting on Europe saying it’s a ****hole and even celebrating brexit in my own country. Then when the **** hits the fan you’re all “ but but look we’re doing better than some European countries “!lol
 
Paradoxical said:
A drop in the bucket really. Especially when we ruin the world economy so that 85 year old people can live just a few months longer.
Click to expand...

Although I agree that the infection is more fatal in the elderly and people with underlying conditions, this does not suggest they all would have died withing a few months. It's my opinion that a significant number of these people had much more time left to enjoy life.
 
Higgins86 said:
American conservatives are a trip lol. Spend years ****ting on Europe saying it’s a ****hole and even celebrating brexit in my own country. Then when the **** hits the fan you’re all “ but but look we’re doing better than some European countries “!lol
Click to expand...

And yet here is your problem, the liberal left holds Europe up as the utopia that they want here and that is why the results are being posted here. You have some serious problems in England so why are you interjecting yourself into U.S. politics?

5/18/2020 Cases Deaths

United States 1537830 90694 5.9%

Spain 278188 27709 10.0%

Italy 225435 31908 14.2%

England 246406 34796 14.1%

France 142903 28239 19.8%

Netherlands 44141 5694 12.9%

Canada 78072 5842 7.5%

Germany 177289 8123 4.6%

Coronavirus (COVID-19) live map tracker from Microsoft Bing
 
fireflygmf said:
Although I agree that the infection is more fatal in the elderly and people with underlying conditions, this does not suggest they all would have died withing a few months. It's my opinion that a significant number of these people had much more time left to enjoy life.
Click to expand...

The average stay in a nursing home is about 5 months without corona virus. Here is a link

Length of Stay in Nursing Homes at the End of Life

People are living longer.
Over the past 20 years, the age 65 to 84 population increased by more than 20 percent and the age 85+ population increased by more than 80 percent

Little wonder that the death toll in America is blown way out of proportion. You have people dying in nursing homes who on average die within 5 months, and when they do, we are now ceiling it a COVID death.
 
Paradoxical said:
The average stay in a nursing home is about 5 months without corona virus. Here is a link

Length of Stay in Nursing Homes at the End of Life

People are living longer.
Over the past 20 years, the age 65 to 84 population increased by more than 20 percent and the age 85+ population increased by more than 80 percent

Little wonder that the death toll in America is blown way out of proportion. You have people dying in nursing homes who on average die within 5 months, and when they do, we are now ceiling it a COVID death.
Click to expand...

I don't dispute most of what you said. I agree that a majority of deaths are from a segment of the population that will inevitably die in a few months anyway, yes.

But... there's still a very significant amount of death in people with many years (and decades) to live. Take New York as an example. Official numbers report 2/3 deaths in the 75+ range. That still leaves 1/3 under that age, roughly 10k people with significant years left, good experiences to be had and much to offer society. That's the point I'm trying to make.
 
Paradoxical said:
How often would you demand I be tested? Weekly? Daily? Hourly just so your fears and anxiety are mollified?
Click to expand...

Just wear a ****ing mask when in public. We don't have testing capabilities to test everyone like the President. So just wear a mask, practice social distancing, and it will help to slow the spread of Covid.
 
fireflygmf said:
Stating a mortality of 6% is at least an order of magnitude too high. There is ample evidence provided by serological surveys in many countries that put the infection fatality at around 0.5%, ballpark. Also, if you consider small, rich countries that are able to keep up with PCR testing for the antigen (see Iceland, Singapore as examples) the fatality rate is around 0.5%, even when only considering deaths/(recovered+deaths).

Having said this, I'm not one to downplay the seriousness of the virus. Considering that the vast majority of the population has not yet been infected, even at 0.5% fatal, if left unmitigated this will be devastating for many societies.
Click to expand...

4.81 million infected world wide. 319,000 deaths. 319,000/4,8100,00 = 0.066 or 6.6%.

You can't assume the mortality rate of a small, rich country that locks down and can keep up with testing is the mortality rate of the virus worldwide. Taken together, the current mortality rate worldwide averages a little above 6%. That number would go up massively if no social distancing measures were taken.
 
fireflygmf said:
I don't dispute most of what you said. I agree that a majority of deaths are from a segment of the population that will inevitably die in a few months anyway, yes.

But... there's still a very significant amount of death in people with many years (and decades) to live. Take New York as an example. Official numbers report 2/3 deaths in the 75+ range. That still leaves 1/3 under that age, roughly 10k people with significant years left, good experiences to be had and much to offer society. That's the point I'm trying to make.
Click to expand...

The numbers of those dying from COVID who are over are still well over 80%. So, if there is 100,000 deaths attributed to COVID (and this is a highly inflated number), that means only 20,000 people in the entire United States UNDER 65 died from Covid. This is not to say I am heartless and don't care that someone's life MAY have been shortened but what we are doing is absolutely CRAZY!! Even IF there are 100,000 COVID deaths that is just 278 deaths per million people. When you then consider that almost 100% who do die from COVID were in very poor health to begin with because they had one, two or three very bad preexisting conditions, those people had a very short life span WITHOUT there being any COVID.

What we've done is said that those conditions don't matter. That person over 65 my have kidney failure, heart disease, stroke, lung cancer or what have you and they are putting him or her down as having died from COVID.

We have many here who are recommending the exact opposite of what we should do, which is to be exposed to it and gain immunity. They want to force me to wear a mask for life and stay home. They are the nail biters and busy body mommies and snowflake daddies telling me I have to give up my rights because they are afraid. We shut down an economy and went 6 TRILLION dollars in debt without a blink from the Democrats. The same people who wouldn't give Trump 6 billion for a wall are now spending money like crazy.
 
lwf said:
4.81 million infected world wide. 319,000 deaths. 319,000/4,8100,00 = 0.066 or 6.6%.

You can't assume the mortality rate of a small, rich country that locks down and can keep up with testing is the mortality rate of the virus worldwide. Taken together, the current mortality rate worldwide averages a little above 6%. That number would go up massively if no social distancing measures were taken.
Click to expand...

Maybe I'm misunderstanding you. Are you trying to state actual infection fatality (the real life chance of death per infection) or case fatality (the chance of death per detected case only)?
 
Ikari said:
Just wear a ****ing mask when in public. We don't have testing capabilities to test everyone like the President. So just wear a mask, practice social distancing, and it will help to slow the spread of Covid.
Click to expand...

Your fears do not allow you to control me and take away my life. may have been OK for a little while but when you folks try to make us wear burkas forever until you are 100% sure the virus is gone, there is going to a civil war.
 
Paradoxical said:
The average stay in a nursing home is about 5 months without corona virus. Here is a link
Length of Stay in Nursing Homes at the End of Life
Click to expand...
The selection is too restricted. To get a good number you need LTC facilities and non-nursing senior centers.

People are living longer.
Click to expand...
No, they aren't. Take it from an actuary. It is much more accurate to say that fewer are dying young.

Over the past 20 years, the age 65 to 84 population increased by more than 20 percent and the age 85+ population increased by more than 80 percent Little wonder that the death toll in America is blown way out of proportion. You have people dying in nursing homes who on average die within 5 months, and when they do, we are now ceiling it a COVID death.
Click to expand...
We are getting older as a nation because of the birth rate, not the death rates. Another factor is reduced accidental death, which is substantially better compared to mid-20th century.
 
Conservative said:
And yet here is your problem, the liberal left holds Europe up as the utopia that they want here and that is why the results are being posted here. You have some serious problems in England so why are you interjecting yourself into U.S. politics?

5/18/2020 Cases Deaths

United States 1537830 90694 5.9%

Spain 278188 27709 10.0%

Italy 225435 31908 14.2%

England 246406 34796 14.1%

France 142903 28239 19.8%

Netherlands 44141 5694 12.9%

Canada 78072 5842 7.5%

Germany 177289 8123 4.6%

Coronavirus (COVID-19) live map tracker from Microsoft Bing
Click to expand...


Remove your military from my country and I’ll stop caring about US politics.
 
Jay59 said:
The selection is too restricted. To get a good number you need LTC facilities and non-nursing senior centers.


No, they aren't. Take it from an actuary. It is much more accurate to say that fewer are dying young.


We are getting older as a nation because of the birth rate, not the death rates. Another factor is reduced accidental death, which is substantially better compared to mid-20th century.
Click to expand...

I don't doubt you are an actuary and am not saying I disagree with you. Are you saying that the statistic is wrong that over 80% of the people who die are over 65? Are you saying that nearly all of that same groups had at least one or more MAJOR preexisting condition?

Someone (could have been you) made the same claim that people are not living longer today than ever before. When I asked for a link, I got one link which was really all over the map and amounted to the personal opinion of the guy in the link. Do you have some actuarial tables from the 1700s, 1800s?
 
Paradoxical said:
The numbers of those dying from COVID who are over are still well over 80%.
Click to expand...

Did you mean to say those over 85 account for 80% of deaths? That's not the data I have, but maybe my data is faulty, although I get it from Statista as I can be guarantee it is non-partisan.

Paradoxical said:
So, if there is 100,000 deaths attributed to COVID (and this is a highly inflated number), that means only 20,000 people in the entire United States UNDER 65 died from Covid. This is not to say I am heartless and don't care that someone's life MAY have been shortened but what we are doing is absolutely CRAZY!! Even IF there are 100,000 COVID deaths that is just 278 deaths per million people. When you then consider that almost 100% who do die from COVID were in very poor health to begin with because they had one, two or three very bad preexisting conditions, those people had a very short life span WITHOUT there being any COVID.
Click to expand...

Since we disagree on the % of people dying of a certain age, I'm not sure I can agree with what you've said here.

Paradoxical said:
What we've done is said that those conditions don't matter. That person over 65 my have kidney failure, heart disease, stroke, lung cancer or what have you and they are putting him or her down as having died from COVID.

We have many here who are recommending the exact opposite of what we should do, which is to be exposed to it and gain immunity. They want to force me to wear a mask for life and stay home. They are the nail biters and busy body mommies and snowflake daddies telling me I have to give up my rights because they are afraid. We shut down an economy and went 6 TRILLION dollars in debt without a blink from the Democrats. The same people who wouldn't give Trump 6 billion for a wall are now spending money like crazy.
Click to expand...

That's a hard one. Consider that for herd immunity you need at least 60% of population exposure... that's roughly 200,000,000 people in America needing to be infected. The actual and real fatality seems to be 0.5%, so that's still over 1,000,000 deaths. Even using your 80% number for proportion of death over 85 deaths (which I dispute), that still leaves you with over 200,000 deaths if left unmitigated in people younger than that! Do you think the country could sustain such losses in a very short time span? Even for the 85+ group, they have families who would be grieving... and that would affect the nation I'm sure. Most families would be suffering some sort of loss, and all at once. 1,000,000 in a few months is devastating.

This is really why the spread needs to be slowed.
 
Paradoxical said:
Your fears do not allow you to control me and take away my life. may have been OK for a little while but when you folks try to make us wear burkas forever until you are 100% sure the virus is gone, there is going to a civil war.
Click to expand...

You don't have to "wear a burka forever". What's with the drama queen argument. It's during a global pandemic. Since you cannot be sure you're not sick, it's only courteous and smart to wear a mask in public.

Jesus, some of y'all act like you're being crucified on a hill for being asked to wear a mask in public.
 
fireflygmf said:
Did you mean to say those over 85 account for 80% of deaths? That's not the data I have, but maybe my data is faulty, although I get it from Statista as I can be guarantee it is non-partisan.



Since we disagree on the % of people dying of a certain age, I'm not sure I can agree with what you've said here.



That's a hard one. Consider that for herd immunity you need at least 60% of population exposure... that's roughly 200,000,000 people in America needing to be infected. The actual and real fatality seems to be 0.5%, so that's still over 1,000,000 deaths. Even using your 80% number for proportion of death over 85 deaths (which I dispute), that still leaves you with over 200,000 deaths if left unmitigated in people younger than that! Do you think the country could sustain such losses in a very short time span? Even for the 85+ group, they have families who would be grieving... and that would affect the nation I'm sure. Most families would be suffering some sort of loss, and all at once. 1,000,000 in a few months is devastating.

This is really why the spread needs to be slowed.
Click to expand...

Over 80% of those who die from COVID are over 65. In Florida, it is 83%
 
Ikari said:
You don't have to "wear a burka forever". What's with the drama queen argument. It's during a global pandemic. Since you cannot be sure you're not sick, it's only courteous and smart to wear a mask in public.

Jesus, some of y'all act like you're being crucified on a hill for being asked to wear a mask in public.
Click to expand...

Your side is famous for moving the goal posts.

First it was flatten the curve. Now that this has been done, we need a vaccine. If that was done, we'd have to wait several months to see if the vaccine worked. The idiot governor of California said he wanted the infection rate to be at zero before reopening. This is kukoo time.

Nothing ever satisfies the snowflakes to stop their incessant fretting.
 
Paradoxical said:
Your side is famous for moving the goal posts.

First it was flatten the curve. Now that this has been done, we need a vaccine. If that was done, we'd have to wait several months to see if the vaccine worked. The idiot governor of California said he wanted the infection rate to be at zero before reopening. This is kukoo time.

Nothing ever satisfies the snowflakes to stop their incessant fretting.
Click to expand...

"my side"

lol

Colorado is opening, so whatever. It was to flatten the curve, states are opening. One way to help us reopen is to wear a stupid mask. It's nothing, it's not a burka, it's something that is shown to reduce the spread of Covid if we all do it. Given the real dangers of asymptomatic transmission and lack of testing, it's only reasonable, logical, and polite to wear a mask in public.

The "liberate" folk are just tilting at windmills over this.
 
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