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China responsible for coronavirus

KevinKohler said:
Due to China being a completely controlling, communist regime...yes, there are things they can do that we can't. Not in 6 weeks, nor 6 years.
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Gosh darn it

When did Japan, SK and Singapore become part of the PRC, inquiring minds want to know
 
digsbe said:
China did all they could to hide the virus during the early stages and went so far as to jail doctors and others warning about it. They can't let a pandemic tarnish the party image. They lied about human to human transmission, continuously lie about their infection rates and deaths, and provided a biased WHO with faulty information that misled the world's response. All they care about is retaining and expanding the power of the repressive communist party.
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The US still had 8 weeks to prepare after it knew officially about the virus did it not
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
Gosh darn it

When did Japan, SK and Singapore become part of the PRC, inquiring minds want to know
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You didn't mention those others, just China.

Meanwhile, over 20k deaths in NYC alone, and if you cared to look, they're acting like nothing happened. Pics on social media from today, of crowded street corners in front of bars, central park absolutely packed, no masks, no social distancing.

Go ahead. Google it.
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
Only those that failed to plan failed to control the virus. The US and Europe believed it was under control until early March. Both had 1 and half months to prepare and plan, but instead pretended like nothing was wrong. China had 2 weeks.

Do you believe China is so superior to the US that it can do things in 2 weeks that the US can not do in 6?
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KevinKohler said:
You didn't mention those others, just China.

Meanwhile, over 20k deaths in NYC alone, and if you cared to look, they're acting like nothing happened. Pics on social media from today, of crowded street corners in front of bars, central park absolutely packed, no masks, no social distancing.

Go ahead. Google it.
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No I said those that failed to plan, failed to control the virus. I used China as an example but other countries planned, prepared and reacted to the virus very early on like SK, Singapore and Taiwan among other countries

As for NYC, I believe it, a lot of people are idiots. They will do what they want with no concern for the future, or for others.
 
Linc said:
I don't expect you to check the timeline in post #7 to combat your lame blame game. Just Security is a new firm that has just come on line.
Nobody told the Democrats of the true Nature of this virus before it was too late, even while we informed our Allies over Nov/Dec 2019.
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Isn't it the case that the House leadership receives the same intel reports as the White House does?

We were too busy listening to Trump telling us how great things were going, until he said he was calling it a pandemic all along.
Epic dereliction of duty from Trump followed by blaming everyone but himself is the only thing he knows, besides insider trading.
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And what exactly was the House Leadership preoccupied with in January? Impeachment?
 
grip said:
I don't get this, why would China create COVID-19, release it, then cover it up> Punishment for tariffs or a mere accident? Seems like it would hurt them as bad or worse economically, and why would you punish an accident?


Why Trump is moving closer to punishing China for the coronavirus

-- On Thursday, the president went much further when asked if he had seen evidence that gave him a "high degree of confidence" that the coronavirus originated in a Chinese laboratory. "Yes, I have," he said. Pressed on what gave him his confidence, Trump demurred: "I'm not allowed to tell you that."

Trump also brought up the possibility that Chinese actions might have allowed the pandemic to spread. "They were either unable to [contain it] or they chose not to," he said Thursday, later adding it's a possibility "they let it spread."

GOP lawmakers, such as Senators Josh Hawley and Tom Cotton, have proposed a range of punishments, including having Beijing "pay back all nations impacted" and having China forgive U.S. debt or sanctioning foreign officials who give false information.

The Washington Post has reported that Trump aides are exploring ideas for "punishing or demanding financial compensation from China." --
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They didn't create it. They accidentally released it from their BSL4 lab due to their piss poor labororatory practices.
 
grip said:
I don't get this, why would China create COVID-19, release it, then cover it up> Punishment for tariffs or a mere accident? Seems like it would hurt them as bad or worse economically, and why would you punish an accident?


Why Trump is moving closer to punishing China for the coronavirus

-- On Thursday, the president went much further when asked if he had seen evidence that gave him a "high degree of confidence" that the coronavirus originated in a Chinese laboratory. "Yes, I have," he said. Pressed on what gave him his confidence, Trump demurred: "I'm not allowed to tell you that."

Trump also brought up the possibility that Chinese actions might have allowed the pandemic to spread. "They were either unable to [contain it] or they chose not to," he said Thursday, later adding it's a possibility "they let it spread."

GOP lawmakers, such as Senators Josh Hawley and Tom Cotton, have proposed a range of punishments, including having Beijing "pay back all nations impacted" and having China forgive U.S. debt or sanctioning foreign officials who give false information.

The Washington Post has reported that Trump aides are exploring ideas for "punishing or demanding financial compensation from China." --
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Furthermore why would China effectively shoot themselves in the foot being as they rely so heavily on exports for their economy, with the US being their biggest trading partner by far. Makes no sense to me.
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
Only those that failed to plan failed to control the virus. The US and Europe believed it was under control until early March. Both had 1 and half months to prepare and plan, but instead pretended like nothing was wrong. China had 2 weeks.

Do you believe China is so superior to the US that it can do things in 2 weeks that the US can not do in 6?
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NOBODY planned for this pandemic, anywhere. To suggest that anyone could have done is wishful thinking. China did much better than the US because they immediately adopted strict shutdown measures-an eminently sensible move that conservatives whining about their 'freedom' being violated seem to have difficulty in understanding.
 
iguanaman said:
So we are at the mercy of China for protection from a pandemic? Since when do we depend on our enemies for our own security? It appears that our intelligence agencies were not lying when they said in November that the chance of a worldwide pandemic was high. The question is then why did our President believe the lies coming from China over our own intelligence? That is a question that cannot be ignored.

US intelligence warned in November that coronavirus spreading in China could be 'cataclysmic event': report | TheHill

15 times Trump praised China as coronavirus was spreading across the globe - POLITICO
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It wouldn't be the first time Trump preferred to ignore his own intelligence community. But of course he knows best, right?
 
snakestretcher said:
You have evidence for this, right?
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Spare me... lets use your bat soup source instead. China is still at fault. Have you pointed one of your fingers at them yet? The answer is no. My next question is why not? Secondly, you have to be special gullible to have belived the bat soup story.
 
dex4974 said:
Weren't lefties recently trying to argue that Joe would be tougher on China because Trump took a loan from a Chinese bank in the 90s?
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I don’t remember that.

Which Chinese bank was dumb enough to lend money to a deadbeat like Trump? By that time, no one in the US was. (Other than Deustche Bank on behalf of their Russian clients).
 
digsbe said:
China has knowingly lied about the virus enabling its spread, the only thing they care about is retaining and expanding the power of the Communist Party. This global pandemic is directly due to China's dishonesty and they should pay dearly for it.
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Yes, China is directly responsible for the pandemic. I hope that we are able to wean ourselves quickly away from our dependence on them for pharma and etc.
 
bluesmoke said:
There is more evidence Trump action or lack thereof might have allowed the pandemic to spread in the US. Trump and admin was/is either unable to contain it due to ignorance and politics or they choose not to. It's a possibility Trump let it spread. More evidence of all that than of what Trump accuses China of.
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The Trump administration spent the weekend going on talk shows blaming China. More smoke up America's ass. This administration knew about the virus early enough to slow it down much more then they did.
 
digsbe said:
China has knowingly lied about the virus enabling its spread, the only thing they care about is retaining and expanding the power of the Communist Party. This global pandemic is directly due to China's dishonesty and they should pay dearly for it.
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Why did the President of the United States repeatedly and publicly praise China for their handling of the situation, their transparency, and the great leadership of Xi? Is the President of the United States stupid or just ignorant?
 
snakestretcher said:
NOBODY planned for this pandemic, anywhere. To suggest that anyone could have done is wishful thinking. China did much better than the US because they immediately adopted strict shutdown measures-an eminently sensible move that conservatives whining about their 'freedom' being violated seem to have difficulty in understanding.
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You plan for a pandemic, a generic one. You then when there is a pandemic work to follow the plan that was created for a generic pandemic. Modify as required South Korea had to have had a plan that it followed to be able to control the virus like it did. China had to have one that it followed once it knew how dangerous the virus was. The same goes for Taiwan, and Singapore. The US had one but I doubt it was followed until it was too late.

South Korea never went into lock down, it closed large public buildings, but never closed up like parts of the US It tested and traced people in contact with infected people then tested them. It had a plan and followed it very early. The US and Europe stuck their heads in the sand and said, we do not see a problem until it was too late. At that point drastic measures were required
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
Lets put it this way

For China to have infected it own people, then let it spread would require that China believed the following thinngs

1. It could control the virus it starting in China, with a high population density, lots of mass transit (from subways and buses) which are ideal for fast spreading of the virus
2. That the country that was reported to be the most prepared for pandemic would do a poor job of containing and preparing for the virus

For #1 China was I expect in panic mode in mid to late Jan. It had a new virus whose properties were unknown, it had no idea on how far it spread in China or how bad it would get. It took extreme actions to contain the virus (including quarantining an entire province with a population of California and Washington combined). A very risky bet

2. The US was reported to be the most prepared for a pandemic. GW Bush set up programs and studies for the US to follow for a potential pandemic. Obama further added to them, it had what most considered to be the world leader in diseases in it the CDC. It would have had 1.5 months to prepare for the virus and get the US ready to contain it. Up until early March it "appeared" the US had contained the virus

So Chinese leadership would have to assume US leadership was so incompetent that it would do a worse job containing the virus despite having a higher degree of advanced medical technology and testing technology, despite being more spread out, with less mass transit, despite having time to prepare for the virus

That is not a bet I would take. Before early March I would have expected the US to do as well as say South Korea. The US basically wrote the rule book on pandemic control. It had the knowledge, it had the resources, it had the people to be able to do it. It just failed to use it all. It failed to plan properly, it failed to present a unified voice and offer guidance to the state and cities on what they should do. Instead it stuck its head in the sand believing that a travel ban on China was going to stop it. So the virus got in from Europe.

That is why the WHO does not recommend travel bans, it lends a false sense of security that leads to failures on the other means of control.
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The Chicoms murdered 50 million people. It isn't a far stretch to believe they would absorb a few hundred thousand, or even a few million deaths if they thought there was some enough to be gained from it.
 
apdst said:
The Chicoms murdered 50 million people. It isn't a far stretch to believe they would absorb a few hundred thousand, or even a few million deaths if they thought there was some enough to be gained from it.
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And what exactly would that be when the virus would impact the global economy? Their GDP recently dropped for the first time in almost 20 years by close to 7%. This pandemic has also made many nations question the viability of relying on another nation for certain supplies given the impact to supply chains and the shift to keeping products for the producer nation's own populace. What this will mean for outsourcing to China remains to be seen. I'm not sure what is the upside to doing this intentionally.
 
ElChupacabra said:
And what exactly would that be when the virus would impact the global economy? Their GDP recently dropped for the first time in almost 20 years by close to 7%. This pandemic has also made many nations question the viability of relying on another nation for certain supplies given the impact to supply chains and the shift to keeping products for the producer nation's own populace. What this will mean for outsourcing to China remains to be seen. I'm not sure what is the upside to doing this intentionally.
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What do you think China's economy did during Mao's great awakening when the commies murdered 50 million people? The pigs who have seats at the table in China are already rich. They don't give a **** about the economy. They only care about grabbing more power.
 
snakestretcher said:
Furthermore why would China effectively shoot themselves in the foot being as they rely so heavily on exports for their economy, with the US being their biggest trading partner by far. Makes no sense to me.
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That sums up my whole OP. It had to be a combo of a colossal error and then miscalculation. 'Keystone Cops' kind of moment for the Chinese and US Gov. Ooops, a new, super contagious virus is in the wild, so we need to control the spin with obfuscation, message control, phony numbers, and media releases. That backfired to the tenth degree, ensuing panic, media hype, sick & dying, and serious economic decline. Society is altered on a ubiquitous scale and now people trust the govs, corporations, and leadership far less.
 
apdst said:
What do you think China's economy did during Mao's great awakening when the commies murdered 50 million people? The pigs who have seats at the table in China are already rich. They don't give a **** about the economy. They only care about grabbing more power.
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If that's the case, then what you're positing makes no sense. China has been building a lot of soft power over the past few decades, so to throw away the economic power achieves what, exactly?
 
ElChupacabra said:
If that's the case, then what you're positing makes no sense. China has been building a lot of soft power over the past few decades, so to throw away the economic power achieves what, exactly?
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You're giving communists credit for thinking like normal human beings.
 
apdst said:
What do you think China's economy did during Mao's great awakening when the commies murdered 50 million people? The pigs who have seats at the table in China are already rich. They don't give a **** about the economy. They only care about grabbing more power.
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Mao is dead don’t you know?

China has changed economically since his death. Private ownership and profit are fully allowed now and encouraged. Destroying the economy would undo the work it has done for 40 years to develop it.

China cares heavily about the economy, a weak economy means a weak country. Which would open China up to the invasions it had in the 1800’s and 1900’s.
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
Mao is dead don’t you know?

China has changed economically since his death. Private ownership and profit are fully allowed now and encouraged. Destroying the economy would undo the work it has done for 40 years to develop it.

China cares heavily about the economy, a weak economy means a weak country. Which would open China up to the invasions it had in the 1800’s and 1900’s.
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Communism hasn't changed one bit. If the competition is weaker than you are, it doesn't matter how weak you are.
 
apdst said:
Communism hasn't changed one bit. If the competition is weaker than you are, it doesn't matter how weak you are.
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Which is a good thing for China as it is not communist anymore

Fascist yes but not communist
 
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