China responsible for coronavirus

I don't get this, why would China create COVID-19, release it, then cover it up> Punishment for tariffs or a mere accident? Seems like it would hurt them as bad or worse economically, and why would you punish an accident?


Why Trump is moving closer to punishing China for the coronavirus

-- On Thursday, the president went much further when asked if he had seen evidence that gave him a "high degree of confidence" that the coronavirus originated in a Chinese laboratory. "Yes, I have," he said. Pressed on what gave him his confidence, Trump demurred: "I'm not allowed to tell you that."

Trump also brought up the possibility that Chinese actions might have allowed the pandemic to spread. "They were either unable to [contain it] or they chose not to," he said Thursday, later adding it's a possibility "they let it spread."

GOP lawmakers, such as Senators Josh Hawley and Tom Cotton, have proposed a range of punishments, including having Beijing "pay back all nations impacted" and having China forgive U.S. debt or sanctioning foreign officials who give false information.

The Washington Post has reported that Trump aides are exploring ideas for "punishing or demanding financial compensation from China." --

grip said:

I don't get this, why would China create COVID-19, release it, then cover it up> Punishment for tariffs or a mere accident? Seems like it would hurt them as bad or worse economically, and why would you punish an accident?


Why Trump is moving closer to punishing China for the coronavirus

-- On Thursday, the president went much further when asked if he had seen evidence that gave him a "high degree of confidence" that the coronavirus originated in a Chinese laboratory. "Yes, I have," he said. Pressed on what gave him his confidence, Trump demurred: "I'm not allowed to tell you that."

Trump also brought up the possibility that Chinese actions might have allowed the pandemic to spread. "They were either unable to [contain it] or they chose not to," he said Thursday, later adding it's a possibility "they let it spread."

GOP lawmakers, such as Senators Josh Hawley and Tom Cotton, have proposed a range of punishments, including having Beijing "pay back all nations impacted" and having China forgive U.S. debt or sanctioning foreign officials who give false information.

The Washington Post has reported that Trump aides are exploring ideas for "punishing or demanding financial compensation from China." --

Click to expand...

There is more evidence Trump action or lack thereof might have allowed the pandemic to spread in the US. Trump and admin was/is either unable to contain it due to ignorance and politics or they choose not to. It's a possibility Trump let it spread. More evidence of all that than of what Trump accuses China of.

grip said:

I don't get this, why would China create COVID-19, release it, then cover it up> Punishment for tariffs or a mere accident? Seems like it would hurt them as bad or worse economically, and why would you punish an accident?


Why Trump is moving closer to punishing China for the coronavirus

-- On Thursday, the president went much further when asked if he had seen evidence that gave him a "high degree of confidence" that the coronavirus originated in a Chinese laboratory. "Yes, I have," he said. Pressed on what gave him his confidence, Trump demurred: "I'm not allowed to tell you that."

Trump also brought up the possibility that Chinese actions might have allowed the pandemic to spread. "They were either unable to [contain it] or they chose not to," he said Thursday, later adding it's a possibility "they let it spread."

GOP lawmakers, such as Senators Josh Hawley and Tom Cotton, have proposed a range of punishments, including having Beijing "pay back all nations impacted" and having China forgive U.S. debt or sanctioning foreign officials who give false information.

The Washington Post has reported that Trump aides are exploring ideas for "punishing or demanding financial compensation from China." --

Click to expand...

China has knowingly lied about the virus enabling its spread, the only thing they care about is retaining and expanding the power of the Communist Party. This global pandemic is directly due to China's dishonesty and they should pay dearly for it.

Weren't lefties recently trying to argue that Joe would be tougher on China because Trump took a loan from a Chinese bank in the 90s?

bluesmoke said:

There is more evidence Trump action or lack thereof might have allowed the pandemic to spread in the US. Trump and admin was/is either unable to contain it due to ignorance and politics or they choose not to. It's a possibility Trump let it spread. More evidence of all that than of what Trump accuses China of.

Click to expand...

Not sure that's founded in fact.

A Comprehensive Timeline Of The Novel Coronavirus
SHELBY TALCOTT MEDIA REPORTER, March 22, 20202:44 PM ET
A Comprehensive Timeline Of The Novel Coronavirus | The Daily Caller

List: 74 actions taken by Trump to fight virus and bolster economy
by Paul Bedard | March 23, 2020 03:25 PM
List: 74 actions taken by Trump to fight virus and bolster economy

Nobody heard you accusing Pelosi of enacting her NO BAN ACT the same day Trump instituted his China travel ban on January 30.

Nobody heard you accusing Pelosi of getting thousands infected when she held her Feb 24th Chinatown live interview asking thousands to come down because there was nothing to fear and her state had it under control

Nobody heard you accusing the WHO of lying to the world until January 20 that this virus is not spread by Humans

Nobody heard you accusing China of any wrongdoing by allowing thousands of flights from Wuhan knowing the people were infected

Nobody heard you accusing China when they refused to allow our CDC access to their labs in February and March to help dissect this virus

Nobody heard you accusing China when they threw out all US reporters to cover this story

Nobody heard you accusing Schiff on not responding as chairman of the US Intel Committee until the middle of march

Nobody heard you accusing Cuomo of infecting thousands when he told everyone there was nothing to fear, go to concerts, and ride the train system which his state has HALF of all infected in the country.

But by all means, keep parroting the leftist media's political propaganda.

All that being said, no government response to a crisis, especially one of this nature, is perfect. None. Mainly because such a response is based on partial information, incomplete facts, and what turns out in the end, in 20-20 hindsight, to be incorrect assumptions.

Also the fact of the matter is that China was internationally less transparent than is acceptable and is required, but then, how do you expect a Totalitarian Communist nation to behave?

grip said:

I don't get this, why would China create COVID-19, release it, then cover it up> Punishment for tariffs or a mere accident? Seems like it would hurt them as bad or worse economically, and why would you punish an accident?


Why Trump is moving closer to punishing China for the coronavirus

-- On Thursday, the president went much further when asked if he had seen evidence that gave him a "high degree of confidence" that the coronavirus originated in a Chinese laboratory. "Yes, I have," he said. Pressed on what gave him his confidence, Trump demurred: "I'm not allowed to tell you that."

Trump also brought up the possibility that Chinese actions might have allowed the pandemic to spread. "They were either unable to [contain it] or they chose not to," he said Thursday, later adding it's a possibility "they let it spread."

GOP lawmakers, such as Senators Josh Hawley and Tom Cotton, have proposed a range of punishments, including having Beijing "pay back all nations impacted" and having China forgive U.S. debt or sanctioning foreign officials who give false information.

The Washington Post has reported that Trump aides are exploring ideas for "punishing or demanding financial compensation from China." --

Click to expand...

Lets put it this way

For China to have infected it own people, then let it spread would require that China believed the following thinngs

1. It could control the virus it starting in China, with a high population density, lots of mass transit (from subways and buses) which are ideal for fast spreading of the virus
2. That the country that was reported to be the most prepared for pandemic would do a poor job of containing and preparing for the virus

For #1 China was I expect in panic mode in mid to late Jan. It had a new virus whose properties were unknown, it had no idea on how far it spread in China or how bad it would get. It took extreme actions to contain the virus (including quarantining an entire province with a population of California and Washington combined). A very risky bet

2. The US was reported to be the most prepared for a pandemic. GW Bush set up programs and studies for the US to follow for a potential pandemic. Obama further added to them, it had what most considered to be the world leader in diseases in it the CDC. It would have had 1.5 months to prepare for the virus and get the US ready to contain it. Up until early March it "appeared" the US had contained the virus

So Chinese leadership would have to assume US leadership was so incompetent that it would do a worse job containing the virus despite having a higher degree of advanced medical technology and testing technology, despite being more spread out, with less mass transit, despite having time to prepare for the virus

That is not a bet I would take. Before early March I would have expected the US to do as well as say South Korea. The US basically wrote the rule book on pandemic control. It had the knowledge, it had the resources, it had the people to be able to do it. It just failed to use it all. It failed to plan properly, it failed to present a unified voice and offer guidance to the state and cities on what they should do. Instead it stuck its head in the sand believing that a travel ban on China was going to stop it. So the virus got in from Europe.

That is why the WHO does not recommend travel bans, it lends a false sense of security that leads to failures on the other means of control.

digsbe said:

China has knowingly lied about the virus enabling its spread, the only thing they care about is retaining and expanding the power of the Communist Party. This global pandemic is directly due to China's dishonesty and they should pay dearly for it.

Click to expand...

Here's a previous post I've made. I give the Mississippi governor credit. At the very beginning, he didn't shut down, then he did, and today he kept MS shut down. That's his state's situation. This is hard. Bob Dole said he's never seen anything like this. He was WWII gravely injured.

A challenging timeline to digest from just security: Timeline of the Coronavirus Pandemic and U.S. Response

google search: https://www.justsecurity.org - Google Search[/QUOTE]

digsbe said:

China has knowingly lied about the virus enabling its spread, the only thing they care about is retaining and expanding the power of the Communist Party. This global pandemic is directly due to China's dishonesty and they should pay dearly for it.

Click to expand...

Only those that failed to plan failed to control the virus. The US and Europe believed it was under control until early March. Both had 1 and half months to prepare and plan, but instead pretended like nothing was wrong. China had 2 weeks.

Do you believe China is so superior to the US that it can do things in 2 weeks that the US can not do in 6?

We have no choice but to do something in relation to how China lied about all this, and further how much WHO was sleeping at the wheel pretty much not challenging any of the nonsense coming out of China.

Lord Tammerlain said:

Only those that failed to plan failed to control the virus. The US and Europe believed it was under control until early March. Both had 1 and half months to prepare and plan, but instead pretended like nothing was wrong. China had 2 weeks.

Do you believe China is so superior to the US that it can do things in 2 weeks that the US can not do in 6?

Click to expand...

China did all they could to hide the virus during the early stages and went so far as to jail doctors and others warning about it. They can't let a pandemic tarnish the party image. They lied about human to human transmission, continuously lie about their infection rates and deaths, and provided a biased WHO with faulty information that misled the world's response. All they care about is retaining and expanding the power of the repressive communist party.

OrphanSlug said:

We have no choice but to do something in relation to how China lied about all this, and further how much WHO was sleeping at the wheel pretty much not challenging any of the nonsense coming out of China.

Click to expand...

So we are at the mercy of China for protection from a pandemic? Since when do we depend on our enemies for our own security? It appears that our intelligence agencies were not lying when they said in November that the chance of a worldwide pandemic was high. The question is then why did our President believe the lies coming from China over our own intelligence? That is a question that cannot be ignored.

US intelligence warned in November that coronavirus spreading in China could be 'cataclysmic event': report | TheHill

15 times Trump praised China as coronavirus was spreading across the globe - POLITICO

eohrnberger said:

Not sure that's founded in fact.

A Comprehensive Timeline Of The Novel Coronavirus
SHELBY TALCOTT MEDIA REPORTER, March 22, 20202:44 PM ET
A Comprehensive Timeline Of The Novel Coronavirus | The Daily Caller

List: 74 actions taken by Trump to fight virus and bolster economy
by Paul Bedard | March 23, 2020 03:25 PM
List: 74 actions taken by Trump to fight virus and bolster economy

Nobody heard you accusing Pelosi of enacting her NO BAN ACT the same day Trump instituted his China travel ban on January 30.

Nobody heard you accusing Pelosi of getting thousands infected when she held her Feb 24th Chinatown live interview asking thousands to come down because there was nothing to fear and her state had it under control

Nobody heard you accusing the WHO of lying to the world until January 20 that this virus is not spread by Humans

Nobody heard you accusing China of any wrongdoing by allowing thousands of flights from Wuhan knowing the people were infected

Nobody heard you accusing China when they refused to allow our CDC access to their labs in February and March to help dissect this virus

Nobody heard you accusing China when they threw out all US reporters to cover this story

Nobody heard you accusing Schiff on not responding as chairman of the US Intel Committee until the middle of march

Nobody heard you accusing Cuomo of infecting thousands when he told everyone there was nothing to fear, go to concerts, and ride the train system which his state has HALF of all infected in the country.

But by all means, keep parroting the leftist media's political propaganda.

All that being said, no government response to a crisis, especially one of this nature, is perfect. None. Mainly because such a response is based on partial information, incomplete facts, and what turns out in the end, in 20-20 hindsight, to be incorrect assumptions.

Also the fact of the matter is that China was internationally less transparent than is acceptable and is required, but then, how do you expect a Totalitarian Communist nation to behave?

Click to expand...

I don't expect you to check the timeline in post #7 to combat your lame blame game. Just Security is a new firm that has just come on line.
Nobody told the Democrats of the true Nature of this virus before it was too late, even while we informed our Allies over Nov/Dec 2019.

We were too busy listening to Trump telling us how great things were going, until he said he was calling it a pandemic all along.
Epic dereliction of duty from Trump followed by blaming everyone but himself is the only thing he knows, besides insider trading.

digsbe said:

China did all they could to hide the virus during the early stages and went so far as to jail doctors and others warning about it. They can't let a pandemic tarnish the party image. They lied about human to human transmission, continuously lie about their infection rates and deaths, and provided a biased WHO with faulty information that misled the world's response. All they care about is retaining and expanding the power of the repressive communist party.

Click to expand...

So? Why is it that China can manipulate us with lies while our leadership ignores the warnings from our own intelligence agencies? Who decided that China is to be believed in such a dangerous situation? Depending on our enemies for our own security is unacceptable don't you think?

When Trump says, "I'm not allowed to tell you that," he's lying. He can declassify any information. This response is meant to deflect responsibility.

Nobody serious thinks the Chinese created it.

One scenario is that the Chinese were researching viruses in bats, the weren't careful enough and the virus jumped from a bat to a lab assitant.

Another scenario is that the virus jumped from bats to men in one of China's wet markets where humans are in close contact with animals like bats.

Michael Cole said:

When Trump says, "I'm not allowed to tell you that," he's lying. He can declassify any information. This response is meant to deflect responsibility.

Click to expand...

Of course it is. He is the one who believed China's lies now he is blaming them for his gullibility. He had plenty of U.S. intelligence that could have told him China was lying and chose to complement China instead.

15 times Trump praised China as coronavirus was spreading across the globe - POLITICO

iguanaman said:

So we are at the mercy of China for protection from a pandemic? Since when do we depend on our enemies for our own security? It appears that our intelligence agencies were not lying when they said in November that the chance of a worldwide pandemic was high. The question is then why did our President believe the lies coming from China over our own intelligence? That is a question that cannot be ignored.

US intelligence warned in November that coronavirus spreading in China could be 'cataclysmic event': report | TheHill

15 times Trump praised China as coronavirus was spreading across the globe - POLITICO

Click to expand...

Please allow time to edit if necessary. This google search for bat woman Dr. Shi Zhengli will open everyone's eyes if they bother to read.
bat woman china - Google Search

This link in regards to the bat woman is quite damning to China: How China muzzled its Bat Woman: Beijing authorities hushed up the findings of a scientist who unlocked the genetic make-up of the coronavirus within days of the outbreak - which is vital for tests and vaccines

These links shows just how dangerous this new era of zoonotic transmission is: 'Bat Woman' scientist who could cure coronavirus has chilling warning for the future - World News - Mirror Online

https://www.google.com/search?q=zoo....69i57j0l7.16422j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

Lord Tammerlain said:

.
Do you believe China is so superior to the US that it can do things in 2 weeks that the US can not do in 6?

Click to expand...

They are incredibly superior to the United States in the speed with which they can lock up and punish political dissidents and remove inconvenient medical personnel from roaming around in public.

digsbe said:

China has knowingly lied about the virus enabling its spread, the only thing they care about is retaining and expanding the power of the Communist Party. This global pandemic is directly due to China's dishonesty and they should pay dearly for it.

Click to expand...

That's fine, but it doesn't get Trump off the hook.

digsbe said:

China did all they could to hide the virus during the early stages and went so far as to jail doctors and others warning about it. They can't let a pandemic tarnish the party image. They lied about human to human transmission, continuously lie about their infection rates and deaths, and provided a biased WHO with faulty information that misled the world's response. All they care about is retaining and expanding the power of the repressive communist party.

Click to expand...

And all Trump cares about is reelection. Seems like a fair fight.

Linc said:

Please allow time to edit if necessary. This google search for bat woman Dr. Shi Zhengli will open everyone's eyes if they bother to read.
bat woman china - Google Search

This link in regards to the bat woman is quite damning to China: How China muzzled its Bat Woman: Beijing authorities hushed up the findings of a scientist who unlocked the genetic make-up of the coronavirus within days of the outbreak - which is vital for tests and vaccines

These links shows just how dangerous this new era of zoonotic transmission is: https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/bat-woman-scientist-who-could-21873027q=zoonotic+transmission&rlz=1C1CAFA_enUS630US644&oq=zoonotic+&aqs=chrome.3.69i57j0l7.16422j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8[/url]

Click to expand...

So you continue to believe that we are entirely at the mercy of China when it comes to a pandemic? Do you actually believe that is how it was with this virus?

Maybe the Chinese were working on virus animal-human transmission, had modified bat virus for this purpose, and it simply leaked out of the lab by accident because their safety protocols were so lax (poorly set up).

President Obama closed down this type of research in the USA by executive order back in around 2014, because it is too dangerous. So I suspect the US military looked for a foreign lab (back door) to do their research. Along with the French, and possibly more partners. And why would "people" from the US embassy be inspecting this lab?

If any of this were true then the US government would now need a cya. Denial that the lab ever had a leak. Denial any US involvement. It started at a wet market.

Don't really care what President Trump may think he read or was told. I will go with no covid-19 was not man made.

"The COVID-19 virus causing the pandemic evolved from naturally occurring strains, according to a new comparative genomic analysis.
"By comparing the available genome sequence data for known coronavirus strains, we can firmly determine that SARS-CoV-2 originated through natural processes," corresponding author Kristian Andersen, an immunology and microbiology researcher affiliated with the Scripps Research Institute and the Scripps Research Translational Institute, said in a statement."
COVID-19 not man-made, comparative genomic study finds

"made.
"All evidence so far points to the fact the COVID-19 virus is naturally derived and not man-made," explains immunologist Nigel McMillan from the Menzies Health Institute Queensland.
"If you were going to design it in a lab the sequence changes make no sense as all previous evidence would tell you it would make the virus worse. No system exists in the lab to make some of the changes found.""
Scientists Are Tired of Explaining Why The COVID-19 Virus Was Not Made in a Lab

Metric Mouse said:

They are incredibly superior to the United States in the speed with which they can lock up and punish political dissidents and remove inconvenient medical personnel from roaming around in public.

Click to expand...

You left out that in order for China to pull this off they had to fool all our own intelligence agencies who are charged with protecting us from threats like this from our enemies. It appears the only one they fooled was Trump. He was warned in November that this virus was likely to be a "cataclysmic event" by the military.

U.S. intelligence officials warned in November that the coronavirus spreading in China’s Hubei region could become a “cataclysmic event,” ABC News reported Wednesday.

The military’s National Center for Medical Intelligence (NCMI) documented concerns about the initial stages of the pandemic in an intelligence report, two officials familiar with the document told ABC News, which added that the document highlighted how the virus was disrupting life and business and threatened the population in the area.

Intelligence was reportedly obtained through wire and computer intercepts along with satellite images showing the new disease was not under control in China.

Click to expand...

US intelligence warned in November that coronavirus spreading in China could be 'cataclysmic event': report | TheHill

15 times Trump praised China as coronavirus was spreading across the globe - POLITICO

swing_voter said:

Nobody serious thinks the Chinese created it.

Click to expand...

Agreed. No one thinks China doesn't study weaponized biology, but if this were a bio-weapon, it wouldn't have escaped.

One scenario is that the Chinese were researching viruses in bats, the weren't careful enough and the virus jumped from a bat to a lab assitant.

Another scenario is that the virus jumped from bats to men in one of China's wet markets where humans are in close contact with animals like bats.

Click to expand...

Either of these seem likely from where I sit, which is far away from Wuhan. Somebody screwed up somewhere. Who knows who. What we do know is Trump's biggest baddest tariffs did nothing to encourage Xi in either lab security or taking care of his people. We need another plan.