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Let’s call it like it is. Trump admin has killed thousands from incompetence.

Threegoofs

Threegoofs

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I don’t think this point should be taken lightly.

This pandemic could not be avoided, but it could have been headed off at the pass and controlled.

We had a lot of time to prepare and the US is still currently the wealthiest nation on earth, so resources were ample.

But..

If you look at the numbers, the death-count 4/28/20 in countries that took prompt, aggressive action:

S. Korea: 244
Japan: 385
Hong Kong: 4
Taiwan: 6
NZ 19

The US where Trump called COVID-19 a hoax & ignored it for 70 days, threatened to fire officials who warned about the impending pandemic, actively discouraged development and deployment of widespread testing (and STILL is behind!) and faces huge deficit of PPE and masks.

US Death Toll From COVID on 4/28: 57,000 and climbing by over 1000 per day.

This is a total fiasco, and the government- even now(!) has no plan to contain this outside of the hammer of social distancing. No massive test ramp up yet (unless you believe Mike Pence, which we all have been burned by), no comprehensive plan of testing, researching contacts and isolating new cases, etc.

This is all setting us up for a year of economic failure- because without testing and contact tracing/isolation, we will just stagger on thru starting and stopping stay at home orders, this further destroying the economy.

Yes- it’s expensive getting testing off the ground on a massive scale, but it’s not going to cost the trillions that were lost by shutting down the economy. And it’s a myth that it can just magically reopen again, since customers tend not to patronize businesses that have a small chance of killing them.

The virus might be an Act of God, but the incompetent response has made it much, much worse.
 
Threegoofs said:
I don’t think this point should be taken lightly.

This pandemic could not be avoided, but it could have been headed off at the pass and controlled.

We had a lot of time to prepare and the US is still currently the wealthiest nation on earth, so resources were ample.

But..

If you look at the numbers, the death-count 4/28/20 in countries that took prompt, aggressive action:

S. Korea: 244
Japan: 385
Hong Kong: 4
Taiwan: 6
NZ 19

The US where Trump called COVID-19 a hoax & ignored it for 70 days, threatened to fire officials who warned about the impending pandemic, actively discouraged development and deployment of widespread testing (and STILL is behind!) and faces huge deficit of PPE and masks.

US Death Toll From COVID on 4/28: 57,000 and climbing by over 1000 per day.

This is a total fiasco, and the government- even now(!) has no plan to contain this outside of the hammer of social distancing. No massive test ramp up yet (unless you believe Mike Pence, which we all have been burned by), no comprehensive plan of testing, researching contacts and isolating new cases, etc.

This is all setting us up for a year of economic failure- because without testing and contact tracing/isolation, we will just stagger on thru starting and stopping stay at home orders, this further destroying the economy.

Yes- it’s expensive getting testing off the ground on a massive scale, but it’s not going to cost the trillions that were lost by shutting down the economy. And it’s a myth that it can just magically reopen again, since customers tend not to patronize businesses that have a small chance of killing them.

The virus might be an Act of God, but the incompetent response has made it much, much worse.
Click to expand...
Hear! Hear! :thumbs:

BTW, NZ just declared they are virus free.
 
Here are facts as I know them.

On January 22 Trump said "We have it totally under control. It's one person coming in from China. We have it under control. It's going to be just fine." CNBC interview in Davos, Switzerland

On January 24 Trump Tweeted "China has been working very hard to contain the Coronavirus. The United States greatly appreciates their efforts and transparency. It will all work out well. In particular, on behalf of the American People, I want to thank President Xi!"

On January 30, the WHO declared a public health emergency, Trump said We think we have it very well under control. We have very little problem in this country at this moment — five — and those people are all recuperating successfully. But we're working very closely with China and other countries, and we think it's going to have a very good ending for us … that I can assure you," during a speech at a Michigan manufacturing plant

On February 7 Trump Tweeted "Just had a long and very good conversation by phone with President Xi of China. He is strong, sharp and powerfully focused on leading the counterattack on the Coronavirus. He feels they are doing very well, even building hospitals in a matter of only days. Nothing is easy, but......he will be successful, especially as the weather starts to warm & the virus hopefully becomes weaker, and then gone. Great discipline is taking place in China, as President Xi strongly leads what will be a very successful operation. We are working closely with China to help!"

On February 10 Trump said "I had a long talk with President Xi — for the people in this room — two nights ago, and he feels very confident. He feels very confident. And he feels that, again, as I mentioned, by April or during the month of April, the heat, generally speaking, kills this kind of virus," the president said during a White House meeting with governors.

On February 23 Trump said "We're very much involved. We're very — very cognizant of everything going on. We have it very much under control in this country," he told reporters in response to a question about whether he had been updated on the coronavirus.

On February 24 Trump Tweeted "The Coronavirus is very much under control in the USA. We are in contact with everyone and all relevant countries. CDC & World Health have been working hard and very smart. Stock Market starting to look very good to me!"

On February 26 Trump said "I want you to understand something that shocked me when I saw it that — and I spoke with Dr. Fauci on this, and I was really amazed, and I think most people are amazed to hear it: The flu, in our country, kills from 25,000 people to 69,000 people a year. That was shocking to me. And, so far, if you look at what we have with the 15 people and their recovery, one is — one is pretty sick but hopefully will recover, but the others are in great shape. But think of that: 25,000 to 69,000. ... "And again, when you have 15 people, and the 15 within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero, that's a pretty good job we've done," during a Coronavirus Task Force Press briefing at the White House

On February 27 Trump said "It's going to disappear. One day it's like a miracle, it will disappear," during a White House meeting with African-American leaders

On February 29 Trump said "And we've done a great job. And I've gotten to know these professionals. They're incredible. And everything is under control. I mean, they're very, very cool. They've done it, and they've done it well. Everything is really under control." at CPAC

and on and on it goes. The man screwed this up royally.
 
Chomsky said:
Hear! Hear! :thumbs:

BTW, NZ just declared they are virus free.
Click to expand...

Proof that quarantines work, especially preemptive ones.
 
Threegoofs said:
I don’t think this point should be taken lightly.

This pandemic could not be avoided, but it could have been headed off at the pass and controlled.

We had a lot of time to prepare and the US is still currently the wealthiest nation on earth, so resources were ample.

But..

If you look at the numbers, the death-count 4/28/20 in countries that took prompt, aggressive action:

S. Korea: 244
Japan: 385
Hong Kong: 4
Taiwan: 6
NZ 19

The US where Trump called COVID-19 a hoax & ignored it for 70 days, threatened to fire officials who warned about the impending pandemic, actively discouraged development and deployment of widespread testing (and STILL is behind!) and faces huge deficit of PPE and masks.

US Death Toll From COVID on 4/28: 57,000 and climbing by over 1000 per day.

This is a total fiasco, and the government- even now(!) has no plan to contain this outside of the hammer of social distancing. No massive test ramp up yet (unless you believe Mike Pence, which we all have been burned by), no comprehensive plan of testing, researching contacts and isolating new cases, etc.

This is all setting us up for a year of economic failure- because without testing and contact tracing/isolation, we will just stagger on thru starting and stopping stay at home orders, this further destroying the economy.

Yes- it’s expensive getting testing off the ground on a massive scale, but it’s not going to cost the trillions that were lost by shutting down the economy. And it’s a myth that it can just magically reopen again, since customers tend not to patronize businesses that have a small chance of killing them.

The virus might be an Act of God, but the incompetent response has made it much, much worse.
Click to expand...

LOL.

You literally cited five island-countries that are the most homogeneous in the world.

South Korea: 51 million
Japan: 126.5 million
Hong Kong: 7.4 million
New Zealand: 4.8 million
Taiwan: 23.78 million

United States: 328.2 million

The fact is, the u.s. has done a better job controlling the virus than those 5 countries when you look at things regionally. trump cannot force the citizens of us to stay inside. If someone wants to go to the grocery store and cough on food, there is nothing we can do to stop it.
 
Re: Let’s call it like it is. Trump admin has killed thousands from incompetence.

Trump, Biden Spin China Travel Restrictions - FactCheck.org

Neither early nor late, according to fact check.

As for test kits...the folks that make them were on lock down, remember? Part of the danger of relying so exclusively on imported goods, some Trump is also hugely unpopular for combating.
 
Bucky said:
LOL.

You literally cited five island-countries that are the most homogeneous in the world.

South Korea: 51 million
Japan: 126.5 million
Hong Kong: 7.4 million
New Zealand: 4.8 million
Taiwan: 23.78 million
Click to expand...

Island-countries ? :lamo

Get a map
 
Bucky said:
LOL.

You literally cited five island-countries that are the most homogeneous in the world.

South Korea: 51 million
Japan: 126.5 million
Hong Kong: 7.4 million
New Zealand: 4.8 million
Taiwan: 23.78 million

United States: 328.2 million

The fact is, the u.s. has done a better job controlling the virus than those 5 countries when you look at things regionally. trump cannot force the citizens of us to stay inside. If someone wants to go to the grocery store and cough on food, there is nothing we can do to stop it.
Click to expand...

Regionally? America has nearly three times the deaths per million than Canada has. I'll need to have your assertion explained in a little more depth.
 
OlNate said:
Regionally? America has nearly three times the deaths per million than Canada has. I'll need to have your assertion explained in a little more depth.
Click to expand...

It depends on what region you are looking - West coast, midcoast, south, northeast, etc.

I live on the west coast for example. Even when you include California, COVID-19 isn't really much a disaster in terms of deaths.
 
Trump also ignored numerous COVID warnings from US intelligence through January and February.....

President’s intelligence briefing book repeatedly cited virus threat

Trump ignored every US intelligence warning.

This is not merely negligence. It is criminal negligence at a minimum. We have a president that is only interested in winning the 2020 election. Everything else is secondary.

Trump approves of re-opening states before they fully meet even his own White House guidelines (14 consecutive days of declining C-19 hospitalizations).

Trump is willing to accept the ghastly trade-off.....

Perhaps tens of thousands of more coronavirus deaths to see if re-opening the states dangerously early can kick-start the economy in time for the November election.
 
Bucky said:
LOL.

You literally cited five island-countries that are the most homogeneous in the world.

South Korea: 51 million
Japan: 126.5 million
Hong Kong: 7.4 million
New Zealand: 4.8 million
Taiwan: 23.78 million

United States: 328.2 million

The fact is, the u.s. has done a better job controlling the virus than those 5 countries when you look at things regionally. trump cannot force the citizens of us to stay inside. If someone wants to go to the grocery store and cough on food, there is nothing we can do to stop it.
Click to expand...

South Korea an island country?

Hong Kong?



a951558a943641a476131ef8b364b570.gif
 
There is no way to get around it (using, facts and logic): Trump has done everything, from the outset, wrong. Every time a decision point was reached, he made a bad decision. He blocked rational, science-guided responses, and fired those who raised them. He promoted crackpot cures. He lied, he deflected, he disparaged and dissembled.

So, his defenders turn to his tactics: lie, deflect, disparage, dissemble.

So long as he is President, the pattern is set and tens more thousands will die needlessly. But, for the sake of us all, there are leaders - almost exclusively outside of Washington - who have the sense and wherewithal to chart a contrary course. The Western States, the Northeastern States, Bill Gates and others are working cooperatively to implement sound, rational, resourced plans to actually open the economy responsibly. Unfortunately, they cannot control federal incompetence in immigration, border control, and interstate commerce. Trump will always work at cross-purposes with cooperative, sound, and rational policy. That's just a plain fact.
 
Re: Let’s call it like it is. Trump admin has killed thousands from incompetence.

KevinKohler said:
Trump, Biden Spin China Travel Restrictions - FactCheck.org

Neither early nor late, according to fact check.

As for test kits...the folks that make them were on lock down, remember? Part of the danger of relying so exclusively on imported goods, some Trump is also hugely unpopular for combating.
Click to expand...

But the lock down didn’t happen till later- and by that time, supplies should have been secured.

If not, you start production here.

But literally nothing was done until April.
 
Threegoofs said:
South Korea an island country?

Hong Kong?

a951558a943641a476131ef8b364b570.gif
Click to expand...

I think you are giving too much credit to governments. Okay, if you want to give credit to South Korea for curbing COVID-19, shouldn't you give credit to North Korea's government as well? I have read barely ANYONE there getting COVID-19.

Let's look at like this:

1. South Korea and Japan are Homogeneous, the United States is not. The citizens of those two countries are more united because they are all of the same race. Those citizens will comply with the government demands to stay inside because they are a much more communal society. There is much more division in the United States where that is not going to work.

2. People aren't illegally entering SK and Japan. Tons of people are flooding the American border and we cannot keep track of who is in our country. Look at it like this brother. If an illegal Mexican entered this country and had babies, they would fit right in this country. If an illegal Mexican entered SK or Japan and had babies, they would stick out in society pretty easily.

3. Trump had tried to stop illegal immigration and severely limit immigration before covid-19. This is a fact but Democrats have done everything possible to make people want to come to our country legally and illegally.
 
As if on cue.... lie, deflect, disparage, dissemble.
 
Bucky said:
I think you are giving too much credit to governments. Okay, if you want to give credit to South Korea for curbing COVID-19, shouldn't you give credit to North Korea's government as well? I have read barely ANYONE there getting COVID-19.

Let's look at like this:

1. South Korea and Japan are Homogeneous, the United States is not. The citizens of those two countries are more united because they are all of the same race. Those citizens will comply with the government demands to stay inside because they are a much more communal society. There is much more division in the United States where that is not going to work.

2. People aren't illegally entering SK and Japan. Tons of people are flooding the American border and we cannot keep track of who is in our country. Look at it like this brother. If an illegal Mexican entered this country and had babies, they would fit right in this country. If an illegal Mexican entered SK or Japan and had babies, they would stick out in society pretty easily.

3. Trump had tried to stop illegal immigration and severely limit immigration before covid-19. This is a fact but Democrats have done everything possible to make people want to come to our country legally and illegally.
Click to expand...

But don’t the Koreas share an island?

:laughat:
 
OlNate said:
Regionally? America has nearly three times the deaths per million than Canada has. I'll need to have your assertion explained in a little more depth.
Click to expand...

Canadians were born 6 feet apart.

If it wasn't for New York the US would be praised for it's response. You can thank Cuomo and De blasio for this.
 
Mongidig said:
If it wasn't for New York the US would be praised for it's response. You can thank Cuomo and De blasio for this.
Click to expand...

You think 30,000 deaths in one month would be praiseworthy?
 
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