• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

"Is America a Roaring Giant or Crying Baby?"

N

nota bene

Moderator
DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 11, 2011
Messages
72,212
Reaction score
43,994
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Conservative
Drawing a comparison to American response to December 7th, 1941, Victor Davis Hanson says that we can either wake up as we did then and determine that Americans control their own fundamentals of life, or we can scapegoat, play the blame-game and ridicule "protectionism" and "economic chauvinism" and "conduct endless congressional inquiries about who said what and when about the virus, and perhaps reopen impeachment." The choice is ours. Coronavirus Crisis: America Must Prepare for Next Pandemic | National Review
 
Sure, preparing for the next pandemic is a priority. We need protective gear and test kits at the very least.

That said, we can look into why America's response to this coronavirus pandemic was so poor. Poor in comparison to Korea.

If we discover our mistakes, that will help in preparing our defense.

We can do both at the same time.
 
The Leftists are trying to turn us into a crying baby.
 
nota bene said:
Drawing a comparison to American response to December 7th, 1941, Victor Davis Hanson says that we can either wake up as we did then and determine that Americans control their own fundamentals of life, or we can scapegoat, play the blame-game and ridicule "protectionism" and "economic chauvinism" and "conduct endless congressional inquiries about who said what and when about the virus, and perhaps reopen impeachment." The choice is ours. Coronavirus Crisis: America Must Prepare for Next Pandemic | National Review
Click to expand...

Comparing a military attack to a pandemic is nonsense. The WWII response did not create (cause?) massive unemployment and was not calling for US citizens to stay in their homes, keep 6 feet from each other when forced to leave their homes and wait for government 'recovery' checks.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
Comparing a military attack to a pandemic is nonsense. The WWII response did not create (cause?) massive unemployment and was not calling for US citizens to stay in their homes, keep 6 feet from each other when forced to leave their homes and wait for government 'recovery' checks.
Click to expand...

I think Dr. Hanson was talking about the American spirit at both these times of crisis.
 
nota bene said:
I think Dr. Hanson was talking about the American spirit at both these times of crisis.
Click to expand...

Only to ignore talking about the role of government at the time. If Hanson wants to launch large, ambitious government programs to help up us "roar" out of this crisis I support him, but he knows as well as any of us that pablum wasn't the reason we succeeded.
 
nota bene said:
I think Dr. Hanson was talking about the American spirit at both these times of crisis.
Click to expand...

As am I, the public spirit is bound to differ between being asked to get busy working to help us all and telling many (25%?) to consider themselves 'non-essential' and stay out of the way to let "experts" and 'essential' workers handle it all.
 
nota bene said:
Drawing a comparison to American response to December 7th, 1941, Victor Davis Hanson says that we can either wake up as we did then and determine that Americans control their own fundamentals of life, or we can scapegoat, play the blame-game and ridicule "protectionism" and "economic chauvinism" and "conduct endless congressional inquiries about who said what and when about the virus, and perhaps reopen impeachment." The choice is ours. Coronavirus Crisis: America Must Prepare for Next Pandemic | National Review
Click to expand...


9DF43967-3EED-4556-97D3-091E909B0DDB.jpg
 
nota bene said:
Drawing a comparison to American response to December 7th, 1941, Victor Davis Hanson says that we can either wake up as we did then and determine that Americans control their own fundamentals of life, or we can scapegoat, play the blame-game and ridicule "protectionism" and "economic chauvinism" and "conduct endless congressional inquiries about who said what and when about the virus, and perhaps reopen impeachment." The choice is ours. Coronavirus Crisis: America Must Prepare for Next Pandemic | National Review
Click to expand...


Never underestimate the right wing capacity for inversions.

Hanson’s essay ends with the suggestions that ridiculing “protectionism” (his quotes, and his policy), “economic chauvinism” (again, his quotes, but his policy), and conduct investigations.

And yet, economic chauvinism and protectionism, along with isolationism (something Trumpsters really love) are precisely the things that weakened the world economy during the Depression and set the stage for war.

Moreover, these parochial forces are what left the US woefully unprepared for the war when it came.

Finally, he ridicules congressional investigations, and then calls for congressional investigations.

How much am I bet that he will be on his perch denouncing congressional investigations when the time comes?
 

Attachments

  • 9DF43967-3EED-4556-97D3-091E909B0DDB.jpg
    9DF43967-3EED-4556-97D3-091E909B0DDB.jpg
    22.8 KB · Views: 188
Last edited:
Although Donald Trump is a paranoid narcissist and a pathological liar, it has to be admitted that he made America great again.
 
apdst said:
The Leftists are trying to turn us into a crying baby.
Click to expand...

This is not a partisan problem. It is the wealthy elite, who got there by using the cheapest possible, least regulated labor forces in the world and gutting huge parts of America's production machine, versus the plebes who want to restructure our economy. The rich (both left and right) will fight tooth and nail to maintain the system that screws most of us, keeping us on the edge of failure because that is the "sweet spot" where the most profit can be made (for them).
 
nota bene said:
I think Dr. Hanson was talking about the American spirit at both these times of crisis.
Click to expand...

It's a little easier to get riled up against an enemy that you can see.
 
nota bene said:
Drawing a comparison to American response to December 7th, 1941, Victor Davis Hanson says that we can either wake up as we did then and determine that Americans control their own fundamentals of life, or we can scapegoat, play the blame-game and ridicule "protectionism" and "economic chauvinism" and "conduct endless congressional inquiries about who said what and when about the virus, and perhaps reopen impeachment." The choice is ours. Coronavirus Crisis: America Must Prepare for Next Pandemic | National Review
Click to expand...
We should have prepared for this one
 
nota bene said:
Drawing a comparison to American response to December 7th, 1941, Victor Davis Hanson says that we can either wake up as we did then and determine that Americans control their own fundamentals of life, or we can scapegoat, play the blame-game and ridicule "protectionism" and "economic chauvinism" and "conduct endless congressional inquiries about who said what and when about the virus, and perhaps reopen impeachment." The choice is ours. Coronavirus Crisis: America Must Prepare for Next Pandemic | National Review
Click to expand...
Hanson, a historian, not a medical doctor, argues "we" should go to war on liberal/progressive policies (keeping CA wetlands alive, being a watchdog on DC mismanagement) while arguing the further subsidizing of US oil producers, the reduction of international trade (going against his libertarian brethren). He even wants to argue that decreasing international travel as a means to isolate against future pandemics. It is a nutty grab bag, made worse by references to Pearl Harbor, where FDR, more than anyone else, was able to turn this nations focus from isolationism to a common goal. That is the ultimate embarrassment for the right wing rag the National Review must endure (as we all will), there is no leadership from this current occupant of the WH.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
Comparing a military attack to a pandemic is nonsense. The WWII response did not create (cause?) massive unemployment and was not calling for US citizens to stay in their homes, keep 6 feet from each other when forced to leave their homes and wait for government 'recovery' checks.
Click to expand...

The article talks about the POST-VIRUS America - what we can do to prevent similar failures. I believe the roaring giant would be us waking up and fighting the oligarchy that got us in trouble (this being one of many times). They are using the country like a corporation and trying to run it as lean as possible, which means we have no surpluses, no backup resources, minimal employment - no insurance against attack, because that would cost them too much money. They are gambling with the country because, let's face it, they don't need us - they think they can just pick up and leave if things go sour here - go find another temporary base of operations. They will ultimately tank in the long run, but we can't wait for that to happen. We need to take them out of the driver's seat now.
 
nota bene said:
Drawing a comparison to American response to December 7th, 1941, Victor Davis Hanson says that we can either wake up as we did then and determine that Americans control their own fundamentals of life, or we can scapegoat, play the blame-game and ridicule "protectionism" and "economic chauvinism" and "conduct endless congressional inquiries about who said what and when about the virus, and perhaps reopen impeachment." The choice is ours. Coronavirus Crisis: America Must Prepare for Next Pandemic | National Review
Click to expand...

Ah, yes, scapegoating.

Trump:

"The Governors should have been better prepared, I'm not a shipping clerk".

"I told Mike not to be nice to the governor of Washington, because he's a snake".

"The W.H.O. is corrupt, we're going to be looking into them really hard".

And regarding politically motivated investigations, how many years and how many millions invested in the Benghazi witch hunt?

Thousands of Americans are sick and dying. Wouldn't an investigation into what we did well and how we can be better prepared for a future pandemic be helpful?
 
nota bene said:
Drawing a comparison to American response to December 7th, 1941, Victor Davis Hanson says that we can either wake up as we did then and determine that Americans control their own fundamentals of life, or we can scapegoat, play the blame-game and ridicule "protectionism" and "economic chauvinism" and "conduct endless congressional inquiries about who said what and when about the virus, and perhaps reopen impeachment." The choice is ours. Coronavirus Crisis: America Must Prepare for Next Pandemic | National Review
Click to expand...

To be fair, EO 9066 was a bit of an overreaction to Pearl Harbor too.
 
ldsrptcvt said:
The article talks about the POST-VIRUS America - what we can do to prevent similar failures. I believe the roaring giant would be us waking up and fighting the oligarchy that got us in trouble (this being one of many times). They are using the country like a corporation and trying to run it as lean as possible, which means we have no surpluses, no backup resources, minimal employment - no insurance against attack, because that would cost them too much money. They are gambling with the country because, let's face it, they don't need us - they think they can just pick up and leave if things go sour here - go find another temporary base of operations. They will ultimately tank in the long run, but we can't wait for that to happen. We need to take them out of the driver's seat now.
Click to expand...

Hmm... it seems that you are advocating for (instant implementation of?) socialism - putting the (federal?) government in charge instead of "them" and taking/controlling "their" means of production.
 
Lutherf said:
To be fair, EO 9066 was a bit of an overreaction to Pearl Harbor too.
Click to expand...

Right. We should have dragged our feet for another year to give the Nazi's a chance to build their A-bomb first.
 
Lutherf said:
To be fair, EO 9066 was a bit of an overreaction to Pearl Harbor too.
Click to expand...

Perhaps we should have sent them an apology for being in the way of their bombs?
 
ttwtt78640 said:
Hmm... it seems that you are advocating for (instant implementation of?) socialism - putting the (federal?) government in charge instead of "them" and taking/controlling "their" means of production.
Click to expand...

I don't pretend to know how to restructure the economy; figuring that out would be the first task of the roaring lion. You criticize the semantics of my statement about taking them out of the driver's seat. Restructuring the economy will do that. Maybe you don't like my analogy - fine. Seems to me a "roaring lion" wouldn't just sit back and do nothing. I argue for the return and maintenance of a strong middle class because it is essential for capitalism to succeed. The wealthy elite have been destroying the middle class. Maybe you are one of the elite. If not, I would think you would like to break the puppet strings that control you.
 
iguanaman said:
Right. We should have dragged our feet for another year to give the Nazi's a chance to build their A-bomb first.
Click to expand...

Luce said:
Perhaps we should have sent them an apology for being in the way of their bombs?
Click to expand...

EO 9066 was the internment order for Japanese Americans (as well as some Germans and Italians), most of whom were US citizens.
 
Lutherf said:
EO 9066 was the internment order for Japanese Americans (as well as some Germans and Italians), most of whom were US citizens.
Click to expand...

Whoops, you're right.

Gonna have to agree with you on this.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom