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No lockdown in Sweden

aociswundumho

Capitalist Pig
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Libertarian - Right
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/no-lockdown-please-w-re-swedish

Good article, here's a taste:

Who would have thought that Sweden would end up being the last place in Europe where you could go for a beer? We have, in our normalcy, suddenly become an exotic place. Other countries are closing their cities, schools and economies, but life in our corner of the world is surprisingly ordinary. Last weekend I went to the gym, met up with friends, and sat in the spring sun at outdoor cafés.

My foreign friends are stunned. They can’t fathom that there are still people enjoying the fruits of civilisation, as if the natural reaction to pandemics is to embrace totalitarianism. And they wrestle with another conundrum: how on earth did Sweden end up being the final bastion of liberty? How did this country of mild-mannered conformists end up rebelling against lockdown culture?

But the most interesting line in the piece is this:

But our approach to fighting the pandemic starts from something more fundamental: in a liberal democracy you have to convince and not command people into action.

I'd like to know if you agree or disagree with the bold part and why.
 
So you require somebody to ask you nicely not to congregate in order to not spread the virus? How many "pretty pleases" do you require in order to do the right thing?

I respect them. They are teaching us how to be a FREE country.
 
By the way, I genuinely wonder if Sweden has ****wits who insist on going to church because they're "covered in Jesus's blood."

https://twitter.com/KatiePhang/status/1246766647379218432


I saw that earlier and couldn’t remember where i had seen it, ( I was going to use it.)

Makes you wonder about us as a species.

Franklin Graham is on there blaming the outbreak on the “world turning away from God.”
 
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/no-lockdown-please-w-re-swedish

Good article, here's a taste:



But the most interesting line in the piece is this:

But our approach to fighting the pandemic starts from something more fundamental: in a liberal democracy you have to convince and not command people into action.

I'd like to know if you agree or disagree with the bold part and why.

Yes, I do agree with it.

Why? Because I am a Libertarian who believes that each individual should have a right to choose how to act, or react to any given situation. That they are also responsible for anything they do, or knowingly fail to do as a result.

As long as one's actions don't directly or indirectly cause harm to others or other's property, then one should retain freedom of action.

What government should do IMHO is explain the situation clearly and convincingly, then offer solutions to act upon.

Of course, if it is shown that someone is acting either directly/or indirectly to cause harm, then government has the power to act to either prevent, or punish.

Our country is divided over what actions we should be taking. IMO there has been little done to convince people of the right and wrong things to do.

IMO this is mostly because our government is not united and cooperating to achieve specific goals, but is divided and conflicted by partisan in-fighting. This has been exacerbated by the MSM's scaremongering.

IMO, if both Parties could have factually agreed to put partisan differences aside, and fully acted to cooperate in a non-partisan way focusing on a united government outlook and plan? Things would be going better for us all.

Instead we have naysaying, arguments, partisan attacks, etc.. With everyone seeking to lay blame, and everyone pretending they know what's best.

So I can understand Swedish thinking. Without condoning reckless indifference.
 
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Sounds like those people have cojones. About damn time somebody showed how its done. You have to respect that kind of integrity.

They will burn in Democrat Hell!!!!

:2mad:
 
We know that the U.S. has plenty of anti-Christian bigots.

Most plan to vote for a rapist named Joe Biden.

We should take moral guidance from them.

:thumbs:
 
Most plan to vote for a rapist named Joe Biden.

We should take moral guidance from them.

:thumbs:

Their hatred for Christians is amazing.
 
A lot of stuff you can do in Sweden, a small, cold nation full of white people, you can't do in America.
 
This thread is evidence why Sweden's approach couldn't work here. Swedes are acting rationally in response to the request to avoid social gathering, and Americans are insisting on gathering together because they're covered in Jesus's blood. And the same people who defend Sweden's approach are defending the choice of religious people to gather in large groups. You couldn't ask for a starker contrast between the two countries.
 
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https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/no-lockdown-please-w-re-swedish

Good article, here's a taste:



But the most interesting line in the piece is this:



I'd like to know if you agree or disagree with the bold part and why.
On Sunday Sweden reported a total of 401 deaths so far from Covid-19, up 8% from Saturday and greater than the totals of its three Nordic neighbours combined. Sweden’s toll per million inhabitants is 37, compared with 28 in Denmark, 12 in Norway and 4.5 in Finland.
So much for this liberal democracy garbage.
 
This thread is evidence why Sweden's approach couldn't work here... You couldn't ask for a starker contrast between the two countries.

If the two countries are that different, then their social policies wouldn't work here either.
 
If the Swedes are smart enough and responsible enough to deal with this without strict controls, then they don't need strict controls.

Americans failed to do this.
 
If the two countries are that different, then their social policies wouldn't work here either.

No, the woman who's covered in Jesus's blood wouldn't have to take uhc if she didn't want it. She's perfectly free to pray her gout away.
 
Allowing for a lager percentage of infection makes sense in terms of herd immunity-- but it comes at a large loss of life--- however in a SHORTER period.

With a possible vaccination 18 months to 2 years away, allowing it to just run it's course quicker and then a all hands on approach to rebuilding the economy is actually the better course to take.
 
Yes, I do agree with it.

Why? Because I am a Libertarian who believes that each individual should have a right to choose how to act, or react to any given situation. That they are also responsible for anything they do, or knowingly fail to do as a result.

As long as one's actions don't directly or indirectly cause harm to others or other's property, then one should retain freedom of action.

What government should do IMHO is explain the situation clearly and convincingly, then offer solutions to act upon.

Of course, if it is shown that someone is acting either directly/or indirectly to cause harm, then government has the power to act to either prevent, or punish.

Our country is divided over what actions we should be taking. IMO there has been little done to convince people of the right and wrong things to do.

IMO this is mostly because our government is not united and cooperating to achieve specific goals, but is divided and conflicted by partisan in-fighting. This has been exacerbated by the MSM's scaremongering.

IMO, if both Parties could have factually agreed to put partisan differences aside, and fully acted to cooperate in a non-partisan way focusing on a united government outlook and plan? Things would be going better for us all.

Instead we have naysaying, arguments, partisan attacks, etc.. With everyone seeking to lay blame, and everyone pretending they know what's best.

So I can understand Swedish thinking. Without condoning reckless indifference.

The problem here is how the hell do I know if i'm harming you and yours with my viral shedding when I am quite likely to not even know I'm doing it?

The whole "your right to swing your fist ends at the tip of my nose" has changed for the time being.

Because now that range extends to at least six feet, and I can kill you without ever even knowing I did it.

How does libertarianism deal with this?

Lets say you live in a state that went with SD early and got ahead of the curve enough to start some return to normalcy with isolation measures targeted to clusters and those clusters traced, as well as surveillance testing.

Our realistic best case scenario until we get to a vaccine or a very effective antiviral of some kind.

And then lets say I live in a state that didn't just lag but defied the idea of SD. And it blows up in my state's face. Geometric spread, overwhelmed healthcare infrastructure. Worst case scenario.

Would you be within your rights to deny me entry to your state? Knowing where i'm coming from, no mandatory quarantine for 14 days followed by a test? Just let me walk in and plop down next to you at the bar?

Don't I have a right to travel freely within the borders of this country?

This kind of question is coming for this society.

The ONLY way we avoid months of turmoil is going to be some restrictions on movement from one area to another. Severely limiting travel between states/regions/counties as necessary.

How do you enforce your right to not be infected by me when neither of us can identify the other as a risk by the evidence of our senses? A 20%+ risk of serious complications for everybody over the age of 20 who is exposed.

Or a .38 revolver aimed at our lungs with only one bullet in it, cylinder spun and the trigger pulled. Without either party even being aware.
 
If the Swedes are smart enough and responsible enough to deal with this without strict controls, then they don't need strict controls.

Americans failed to do this.

And even there they are ramping up SD efforts just in the last couple of days.
 
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