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Was Trump right to back the firing of Capt. Crozier

grip

grip

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Was Trump right to back the firing of Capt. Crozier?

Trump Backs Dismissal of USS Roosevelt Captain - WSJ

WASHINGTON-President Trump said he agreed with the Navy's decision to fire Capt. Brett Crozier, the commanding officer of the USS Theodore Roosevelt, after a memo in which the captain pleaded for help with a coronavirus outbreak at sea leaked to the media.

The president said Saturday that it was inappropriate for Capt. Crozier to write the four-page memo in which he demanded that superiors allow him to take the carrier to the port in Guam to offload sailors stricken with Covid-19, the pneumonialike disease caused by the virus. As of Saturday, 155 of the ship's sailors had tested positive.

Capt. Brett Crozier was cheered by fellow sailors as he disembarked the coronavirus-stricken USS Theodore Roosevelt. He was relieved of duty on Thursday after his superiors said he had lost his ability to lead.
 
grip said:
Was Trump right to back the firing of Capt. Crozier?

Trump Backs Dismissal of USS Roosevelt Captain - WSJ

WASHINGTON-President Trump said he agreed with the Navy's decision to fire Capt. Brett Crozier, the commanding officer of the USS Theodore Roosevelt, after a memo in which the captain pleaded for help with a coronavirus outbreak at sea leaked to the media.

The president said Saturday that it was inappropriate for Capt. Crozier to write the four-page memo in which he demanded that superiors allow him to take the carrier to the port in Guam to offload sailors stricken with Covid-19, the pneumonialike disease caused by the virus. As of Saturday, 155 of the ship's sailors had tested positive.

Capt. Brett Crozier was cheered by fellow sailors as he disembarked the coronavirus-stricken USS Theodore Roosevelt. He was relieved of duty on Thursday after his superiors said he had lost his ability to lead.
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That should tell you right there that this was political.
 
grip said:
Was Trump right to back the firing of Capt. Crozier?

Trump Backs Dismissal of USS Roosevelt Captain - WSJ

WASHINGTON-President Trump said he agreed with the Navy's decision to fire Capt. Brett Crozier, the commanding officer of the USS Theodore Roosevelt, after a memo in which the captain pleaded for help with a coronavirus outbreak at sea leaked to the media.

The president said Saturday that it was inappropriate for Capt. Crozier to write the four-page memo in which he demanded that superiors allow him to take the carrier to the port in Guam to offload sailors stricken with Covid-19, the pneumonialike disease caused by the virus. As of Saturday, 155 of the ship's sailors had tested positive.

Capt. Brett Crozier was cheered by fellow sailors as he disembarked the coronavirus-stricken USS Theodore Roosevelt. He was relieved of duty on Thursday after his superiors said he had lost his ability to lead.
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Damned if he does, damned if he doesn't.

He supports it - OMG He's a demagogue, doesn't care about the armed services

He opposes it - OMG He's a demagogue, doesn't back up the people he puts in charge etc.
 
Atomic Kid said:
That should tell you right there that this was political.
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But all he did was bring attention to a growing problem. I guess it didn't fit the Admins narrative of "speak no evil."
 
Yes....
 
grip said:
Was Trump right to back the firing of Capt. Crozier?

Trump Backs Dismissal of USS Roosevelt Captain - WSJ

WASHINGTON-President Trump said he agreed with the Navy's decision to fire Capt. Brett Crozier, the commanding officer of the USS Theodore Roosevelt, after a memo in which the captain pleaded for help with a coronavirus outbreak at sea leaked to the media.

The president said Saturday that it was inappropriate for Capt. Crozier to write the four-page memo in which he demanded that superiors allow him to take the carrier to the port in Guam to offload sailors stricken with Covid-19, the pneumonialike disease caused by the virus. As of Saturday, 155 of the ship's sailors had tested positive.

Capt. Brett Crozier was cheered by fellow sailors as he disembarked the coronavirus-stricken USS Theodore Roosevelt. He was relieved of duty on Thursday after his superiors said he had lost his ability to lead.
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The stark contrast between reality and "his superiors" is troubling but expected.

The sendoff establishes without a doubt that Captain Crozier is an admirable and capable leader. Unless the Navy is redefining words now, which would be very Trumpish.
 
grip said:
But all he did was bring attention to a growing problem. I guess it didn't fit the Admins narrative of "speak no evil."
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The service has rules. The captain violated those rules. As a senior officer, he knew better. He got what he deserved. He oughta be drummed out of the service.
 
Atomic Kid said:
That should tell you right there that this was political.
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Quite the opposite in fact. If he had reinstated the captain then it would have been political.
 
sjmay said:
Damned if he does, damned if he doesn't.

He supports it - OMG He's a demagogue, doesn't care about the armed services

He opposes it - OMG He's a demagogue, doesn't back up the people he puts in charge etc.
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Number one is true and number two, he didn't back up the Capt in charge who was right. Trump simply did the wrong thing, regardless of who says what politically.
 
apdst said:
The service has rules. The captain violated those rules. As a senior officer, he knew better. He got what he deserved. He oughta be drummed out of the service.
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When the rules are wrong or orders unlawful, they should be violated.
 
grip said:
Number one is true and number two, he didn't back up the Capt in charge who was right. Trump simply did the wrong thing, regardless of who says what politically.
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Like I said,

Damned if he does, damned if he doesn't. I guarantee you, he comes out saying this was wrong, you and everyone else would be ****ing screaming that he doesn't believe in the people he put in charge, he's not backing up the Sec Nav etc....
 
it could have made Donald Trump look bad.

of course Trump wants him fired. probably wants his pension too.
 
sjmay said:
Like I said,

Damned if he does, damned if he doesn't. I guarantee you, he comes out saying this was wrong, you and everyone else would be ****ing screaming that he doesn't believe in the people he put in charge, he's not backing up the Sec Nav etc....
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I bet you anything, the order came from Trump himself. The brass ran that incident up the chain of command before acting on it.
 
grip said:
When the rules are wrong or orders unlawful, they should be violated.
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The rules are the rules. Even when issued an unlawful order, there is a procedure to deal with it.

In this case, the captain wasn't issued any unlawful order.
 
CaughtInThe said:
it could have made Donald Trump look bad.

of course Trump wants him fired. probably wants his pension too.
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The captian endangered the lives of every member of the armed forces.
 
apdst said:
The rules are the rules. Even when issued an unlawful order, there is a procedure to deal with it.

In this case, the captain wasn't issued any unlawful order.
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Except Trump. Rules don't apply to him.
 
apdst said:
The rules are the rules. Even when issued an unlawful order, there is a procedure to deal with it.

In this case, the captain wasn't issued any unlawful order.
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Keep your men sick and contained onboard, don't ask for help? He was showing the Navy and Trump have the wrong approach. He cared for his personnel.
 
President Trump is the Commander in Chief. Regardless of his reasoning, one way or the other, he has every right to do whatever he decides to do.

On a brighter note, one could reasonably argue it is a good thing that Trump is actually listening to and standing beside the upper echelon in our military's command. Trump has been known to think he "know's more than the generals."

I think whatever path he took would be a lose-lose path.

I will not arm-chair quarterback or second-guess the POTUS on this one in as much as his decision went.

But you can count me standing alongside all those sailor's who applauded the Captain.
 
grip said:
Was Trump right to back the firing of Capt. Crozier?
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No. The Captain is a hero for not settling on his warship being turned into an infested cruise line vessel.

The Pentagon ignored his e-mails and pleas. No one wanted to anger Trump.
 
grip said:
Keep your men sick and contained onboard, don't ask for help? He was showing the Navy and Trump have the wrong approach. He cared for his personnel.
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You ask for help through the chain of command. What he did was violate the chain of command, compromise the security of his ship and transmit casualty information through unauthorized channels.

What's he going to do during a battle, where his ship is crippled and 30% of his compliment is dead, or dying? Should he obey the rules of the service, or write a letter to the media?
 
Rogue Valley said:
No. The Captain is a hero for not settling on his warship being turned into an infested cruise line vessel.

The Pentagon ignored his e-mails and pleas. No one wanted to anger Trump.
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How did his ship get infected, to begin with? That's on him.
 
Rogue Valley said:
No. The Captain is a hero for not settling on his warship being turned into an infested cruise line vessel.

The Pentagon ignored his e-mails and pleas. No one wanted to anger Trump.
Click to expand...

Finally, the truth. The Capt. was willing to take a hit for the Navy and Trump to change their dangerous policy.
 
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