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3M is going to be in the hot seat

SenorXm/Sirius said:
They would have blamed Obama if this happened on his watch? You're being kind.. If this happened on his watch they'd be calling for him to be tried, jailed, and put on death row.

Hell, he's not president NOW and many are blaming him. Checked up on my In-laws yesterday, 1st words out of my 'watches Fox news all day and hates all Dems' father in-law was 'you know the Federal gov't not being ready for this virus is all Obama's fault'
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The hits just keep coming from the trump/kushner/gop crime syndicate — trump admin delivering equipment to private sector, not hospitals — kushner says “our” federal stockpile isn’t meant for states —
 
Some of us read broadly and investigate issues deeply in trying to reach a rational conclusion regarding information. Others contain themselves in their comfortable silos and only accept information fed to them. Trump is self-isolating at his safe space: Fox News (CNN, opinion). That approach not only distorts our views, it can be downright dangerous. JOURNALISM PROFESSORS CALL FOR AN END TO FOX NEWS CORONAVIRUS 'MISINFORMATION' IN OPEN LETTER TO RUPERT MURDOCH (Newsweek).

It is because of that willingness to suborn one's thinking processes to propaganda outlets that the Governor of Georgia was "surprised" to learn that coronavirus can be spread by asymptomatic carriers months after the world was well aware as had been reported by real news outlets repeatedly for months (Georgia governor says he didn’t know asymptomatic people can spread coronavirus (Macon Telegraph)), and the OP only learned of 3Ms behavior from Tucker Carlson last night.

Now we're expected to be surprised and outraged about this, and ignore the fact that it could have been avoided if the administration has listened to its experts and behaved accordingly. (And I'm the one of accused of "projecting".)
 
NWRatCon said:
The fact that you think Tucker Carlson is a legitimate news source is very telling. It had been reported by legitimate news sources for three weeks before he brought it to his boss' (Trump) attention. That's a little late to the party, my friend. The World Needs Masks. China Makes Them, but Has Been Hoarding Them (NYT Mar. 13); Mark Cuban calls out 3M for allowing distributors to jack up prices for critical N95 respiratory masks (BI, Mar 28); Mark Cuban Says 3M Not Doing Enough to Keep Face Mask Prices Low (Bloomberg Mar 27).
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The point is that I hadn't heard of this until last night. Kind of silly to kill the messenger here when other sources, as you've so thoughtfully linked, also report on this. But perhaps you can direct me to the thread(s) you've begun on this topic that were more timely and from sources you deem more "legitimate."

For me the test of a news report's "legitimacy" is whether other sources corroborate it. Sorry you don't like Tucker Carlson, but news is news, wherever you find it.
 
So, lemme get this straight.

The free market is perfect, so we shouldn't interfere with it. That includes using legal provisions for the federal government to coordinate production of vital medical supplies during the worst global epidemic in 100 years. (Because that's socialism!!!)

But when a company sells its products on the free markets, they're a bunch of bastard-coated bastards with bastard fillings.

Hmmmmm.
 
Linc said:
The real lesson is that trump should have invoked the DPA several weeks ago when governors pleaded with him to do so.

As for your historical revision, take that back to ‘only Nixon could go to China’.
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The only governors I know of that are wanting Trump to totally declare DPA are the assholes that didn't do their job in preparing for a pandemic such as this and they tend to be Democrats.
Trump has used DPA twice now. Once with GM and now with 3M. These companies PROMISED to produce the needed medical supplies for the American people and after 4 weeks had not lived up to their word while other companies have. States from all over have had orders in since Trump called a National Health Emergency in January and placing a travel ban on China and ordered all people returning from China be quarantined. It was when the outbreak in Italy got out of control by March 10, two days later on March 12 Trump had placed a travel ban on most of Europe. But jackasses like deBlasio was out there telling the people of NYC not to fear this virus and go about their daily routines, ride the subways, go to restaurants, see a show. And because of his feckless leadership a lot of people have died. As of this afternoon there have been 2,935 deaths reported in the state of NY due to the virus. Well over half of those deaths have occurred in NYC and suburbs connected to the city.

Corona virus in NYC - Bing

Everyone knows the Gov. Cuomo was not prepared for this pandemic. There's plenty of evidence that he did not take the warnings of his own people back in 2015 when they said he needed to purchase AT LEAST 16,000 ventilators and other medical supplies. He didn't do it. So now he's on TV everyday pleading for them. The Federal government has a supply as backup but it also has 49 other states to assist if needed. But Trump has given NYC 4 hospitals that were put up in days complete with military medical personnel and all equipment. And then he provided one of our naval hospitals with 1000 beds to be used for non-coronavirus patients, complete with operating rooms and all facilities found in top notch hospitals across the country. But as of last night there were only a half dozen patients occupying the ship. Why aren't they utilizing it to free up a thousand beds in their hospitals for corona virus patients? But today Cuomo was whining again that the hospital ship Comfort was not taking corona virus patients. The man has been given much yet he still complains. EMS units from all over the country have sent ambulances and EMS personnel to NY to help but the governor still complains while the death toll rises often blaming Trump when it was his own fault for not having in stockpile the needed supplies by his own people a few short years ago.

I am not a violent person but if I were to find myself in a position to be face to face with deBlasio or Cuomo it would take every fiber of my being to not sucker punch them right in the nose. Behold incompetence and people die by the hundreds daily.

Now to Nixon and your comments about China. At the time the thought was on the left and the right to open up free trade with China would be the gateway of opening up the country to steer away from a communistic form of government. It did not work. They became the most dishonest of countries taking advantage for their own profit for years and now it is time to address it. Trump seen it and that must burn your arse and brought attention to it through unfair trade deals. He has been talking made in America for the past 4 years and after this pandemic the lesson learned by many is the need to make everything especially related to healthcare right here in the U.S..

I don't expect any hyper partisan hack on this forum who has done their best to politically weaponize this tragedy to blame Trump to be honest. Because before this horrific medical emergency, the same people have been attacking him with unfounded charges since the day he won office. You all have your circle jerkoff group on this forum for the past 4 years. Now it is a life and death scenario and those who jerkoff daily on this forum should maybe spend their time sharing what they are personally doing to help during this crisis spending time posting threads about organizations that are doing great things.Someone started a thread today about people starting up a group to feed truckers but it didn't take to the second page until one of your circle jerkoff members turned it into a weaponized political piece of ****. What did you do today Linc? Did you help your fellow man in need or were you too busy on this forum circle jerking off on orange man bad.
 
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nota bene said:
The opening piece on "Tucker Carlson" was an interview with Jared Moskowitz, who runs Florida's emergency management and who has been unable to purchase N95 masks. Apparently, 3M has been making 10 million masks a week and selling them to foreign countries. With public pressure, will it now put America first?

Florida's director of emergency management grills 3M for more N95 masks - NBC2 News
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How would you feel if a German based conglomerate, manufacturers ventilators in their US plants, was ordered by their Govt to direct all US production to satisfy Germany's needs

All US orders are to be delayed/cancelled until Germany's requirements are met

Your reaction would be?
 
vesper said:
Hey Barnacle hope you and yours are well. It is rather amazing after Trump invoked the DPA on 3M they said today it has secured China's approval to export to the U.S. 10 million N-95 respirators manufactured by the company in China. From what I read we have plants that make the masks here in the states but the state orders were not getting filled .

Coronavirus N95 Mask Shortage: Trump Invokes Defense Production Act Against 3M, Threatens Retaliation

The biggest lesson ? the U.S. address the real need to have all our medical supplies including drugs produced in the states. We need to be self-sufficient period.
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Absolutely. 20 years ago should have been a wake-up call for our politicians to return drug production to the US. But it looks like none of our politicians gave/give a **** about Americans.

"... After the anthrax attacks on Capitol Hill and elsewhere in 2001, the U.S. government turned to a European company to buy 20 million doses of the recommended treatment for anthrax exposure, doxycycline. That company had to buy the chemical starting material from China. What if China were the anthrax attacker? ..."


BTW, my family and I are okay ... thanks for asking. :)
 
JANFU said:
How would you feel if a German based conglomerate, manufacturers ventilators in their US plants, was ordered by their Govt to direct all US production to satisfy Germany's needs

All US orders are to be delayed/cancelled until Germany's requirements are met

Your reaction would be?
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I have no idea. I also don't know why you're posing this hypothetical.
 
nota bene said:
I have no idea. I also don't know why you're posing this hypothetical.
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Trump has ordered 3M to send all overseas production to the US

Not a hypothetical for other countries with 3M plants

Trump Seeks to Block 3M Mask Exports and Grab Masks from Its Overseas Customers - The New York Times
The policy would be a significant expansion of the American government’s reach and a reversal of President Trump’s hesitant use of the Defense Production Act, which allows the administration to force a company to prioritize the U.S. government over competing orders.

But in this case, the administration is invoking the law to compel 3M to send to the United States masks made in factories overseas, a move that some trade and legal experts fear could backfire and prompt foreign governments to clamp down on desperately needed medical necessities destined for the United States.
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nota bene said:
The opening piece on "Tucker Carlson" was an interview with Jared Moskowitz, who runs Florida's emergency management and who has been unable to purchase N95 masks. Apparently, 3M has been making 10 million masks a week and selling them to foreign countries. With public pressure, will it now put America first?

Florida's director of emergency management grills 3M for more N95 masks - NBC2 News
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They are a multinational company.

Are there any manufacturing sites in the USA?
 
Crovax said:
Only if they don’t want to go bankrupt from the negative backlash
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Why would that affect their profits? Again, they are a multi-national corporation. Want to place blame? Blame president Clinton for his free trade agreements.
 
Lord of Planar said:
Why would that affect their profits? Again, they are a multi-national corporation. Want to place blame? Blame president Clinton for his free trade agreements.
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NAFTA began under Conservatives in US-Canada

No soup for you

North American Free Trade Agreement - Wikipedia
The North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA; Spanish: Tratado de Libre Comercio de América del Norte, TLCAN; French: Accord de libre-échange nord-américain, ALÉNA) was an agreement signed by Canada, Mexico, and the United States, creating a trilateral trade bloc in North America. The agreement came into force on January 1, 1994, and superseded the 1988 Canada–United States Free Trade Agreement between the United States and Canada. The NAFTA trade bloc is one of the largest trade blocs in the world by gross domestic product.

The impetus for a North American free trade zone began with U.S. president Ronald Reagan, who made the idea part of his 1980 presidential campaign. After the signing of the Canada–United States Free Trade Agreement in 1988, the administrations of U.S. president George H. W. Bush, Mexican president Carlos Salinas de Gortari, and Canadian prime minister Brian Mulroney agreed to negotiate what became NAFTA. Each submitted the agreement for ratification in their respective capitals in December 1992, but NAFTA faced significant opposition in both the United States and Canada. All three countries ratified NAFTA in 1993 after the addition of two side agreements, the North American Agreement on Labor Cooperation (NAALC) and the North American Agreement on Environmental Cooperation (NAAEC).
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Risky Thicket said:
Really? Where did leftist say that? What media source? Link?
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I'm glad you asked.

90653064_2690122021205696_7916203980177276928_n.jpg


Brianna SacksBuzzFeed News Reporter
Last updated on March 24, 2020, at 11:41 a.m. ET
Posted on March 23, 2020, at 6:22 p.m. ET
Man Dies After Self-Medicating For Coronavirus With Chloroquine Phosphate

(FeatureChina via AP Images)
The journalists at BuzzFeed News are proud to bring you trustworthy and relevant reporting about the coronavirus. To help keep this news free, become a member and sign up for our newsletter, Outbreak Today.
A man died and his wife needed critical care after they both took a drug meant for aquariums that contains chloroquine, a drug President Trump recently touted as a treatment for COVID-19 in spite of a lack of study by health officials or approval by the World Health Organization.
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Leftist media pushing a factually false narrative.

That which the couple consumed was not, in fact, the drug that Trump purported.

This is not journalism.
This is not informing the electorate, the purpose of a free press.
"trustworthy and relevant reporting" my ass.

This is political propaganda BuzzFeed, plain and simple.

Now, that BuzzFeed has established their track record reporting such rank political bull****, it is legitimate to classify their reporting and purporting of the Steel dossier, which started that whole line of rank political propaganda bull****, as rank political bull****.

The take away is really simple. BuzzFeed traffics in rank political bull****.

Further, had the rank political bull**** from BuzzFeed gone viral, every so called 'news' (political propaganda) outlet would have made it their #1 story at the front of their program and on their front page. So THEY are little different from rank political bull**** propagandists, as the traffic in the same.

#JournalismIsDead
 
JANFU said:
NAFTA began under Conservatives in US-Canada

No soup for you

North American Free Trade Agreement - Wikipedia
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Sorry I wasn't specific.

I have repeatedly said I was for NAFTA in other threads. We should help our bordering southern neighbor so they have less people encroaching on ours. It's the global free trade agreements that followed that should never have happened.

I have been consistent on this for at least the last 2 decades.

NAFTA was just one of many free trade deals president Clinton signed.
 
eohrnberger said:
I'm glad you asked.

90653064_2690122021205696_7916203980177276928_n.jpg




Leftist media pushing a factually false narrative.

That which the couple consumed was not, in fact, the drug that Trump purported.

This is not journalism.
This is not informing the electorate, the purpose of a free press.
"trustworthy and relevant reporting" my ass.

This is political propaganda BuzzFeed, plain and simple.

Now, that BuzzFeed has established their track record reporting such rank political bull****, it is legitimate to classify their reporting and purporting of the Steel dossier, which started that whole line of rank political propaganda bull****, as rank political bull****.

The take away is really simple. BuzzFeed traffics in rank political bull****.

Further, had the rank political bull**** from BuzzFeed gone viral, every so called 'news' (political propaganda) outlet would have made it their #1 story at the front of their program and on their front page. So THEY are little different from rank political bull**** propagandists, as the traffic in the same.

#JournalismIsDead
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Journalism is a lost trade. They are all just tabloid writers these days.
 
Lord of Planar said:
Sorry I wasn't specific.

I have repeatedly said I was for NAFTA in other threads. We should help our bordering southern neighbor so they have less people encroaching on ours. It's the global free trade agreements that followed that should never have happened.

I have been consistent on this for at least the last 2 decades.

NAFTA was just one of many free trade deals president Clinton signed.
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Fair enough

Though I supported TPP as a trade balacner with China

It ain't coming back to the US/Canada/EU

TPP would have pushed companies from China to others in SE Asia.

Less trade surplus for them=less pork for the masses meals- and a host of other employment impacts that would cause problems for the Chinese Govt as well
 
Risky Thicket said:
Really? Where did leftist say that? What media source? Link?
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Looks like some so called 'news' (political propaganda) outlets actually tried to make the story go viral.

Trump peddles unsubstantiated hope in dark times – CNN Politics
Trump is giving people false hope of coronavirus cures. It’s all snake oil. – Washington Post

These media outlets lied about a potential therapy to defeat coronavirus and save your life because they are political propagandists and political activists.

Lord of Planar said:
Journalism is a lost trade. They are all just tabloid writers these days.
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Yeah, pretty much, at least some of them.
 
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nota bene said:
The opening piece on "Tucker Carlson" was an interview with Jared Moskowitz, who runs Florida's emergency management and who has been unable to purchase N95 masks. Apparently, 3M has been making 10 million masks a week and selling them to foreign countries. With public pressure, will it now put America first?

Florida's director of emergency management grills 3M for more N95 masks - NBC2 News
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An American life is not more valuable than a Canadian life. Why should we short-change Canadian healthcare workers?
 
Drawdown said:
An American life is not more valuable than a Canadian life. Why should we short-change Canadian healthcare workers?
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Isn't the issue 3M providing masks to China and Singapore from their hubs there?
 
nota bene said:
The opening piece on "Tucker Carlson" was an interview with Jared Moskowitz, who runs Florida's emergency management and who has been unable to purchase N95 masks. Apparently, 3M has been making 10 million masks a week and selling them to foreign countries. With public pressure, will it now put America first?

Florida's director of emergency management grills 3M for more N95 masks - NBC2 News
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This raises some interesting philosophical and moral questions.

On what basis are these sales occurring?

First come, first serve?

Greatest need?

What defines greatest need?

What percentage of US residents are wearing masks that don't need to do so?

What is the effectiveness of masks?

How many masks are being wasted in the US?
 
3leftsdoo said:
This raises some interesting philosophical and moral questions.

On what basis are these sales occurring?

First come, first serve?

Greatest need?

What defines greatest need?

What percentage of US residents are wearing masks that don't need to do so?

What is the effectiveness of masks?

How many masks are being wasted in the US?
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I don't know the answer to most of your questions. I do think, though, that healthcare providers should have whatever they need first.
 
nota bene said:
I don't know the answer to most of your questions. I do think, though, that healthcare providers should have whatever they need first.
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Yeah - to me, the real issue is waste and proper access for the proper personnel. (Medical & worldwide.)

3M's a business, of course...

Trump could step in, but then when someone's goldfish died because no aquatic fish mask, he'd be blamed.
 
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