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3M is going to be in the hot seat

eohrnberger said:
Actually, it is a mutual consent transaction between 3M and the distributors. There are some things that 3M can dictate to their distributors, and other things they can't. I'm suspecting that who the distributors sell to isn't one of them. Mutual consent transaction. It's a free market principal that escapes many from the left who prefer government edicts even if it runs counter to common sense economics and common sense human behavior. :shrug:

It would appear that the federal government is bypassing the distributors, and dealing directly with 3M. The distributors lose. Good. As posted previously, such bad decision making needs to have some sort of consequences. I generally prefer free market consequences over government imposed consequences. I wouldn't be surprised if 3M drops the distributors who were conducting such sales. In fact, I'd welcome it as a natural consequence of those distributors decisions bad decision making.



Oh, you mean the one that added like $3K to each person's yearly income if they earned below like $75K? The one so inaccurately maligned as being for the 1%, but truthfully wasn't?



Except it did. Prior to the viral outbreak, what was the unemployment rate? Bottom 1/2 wages were growing, were they not?



I would suggest that you seek alternative sources of information than the ones you are presently using. All those points you posted are little more than a leftist DNC issued talking points. :shrug: Challenge yourself sometime.
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I haven't seen the contracts 3M has with their distributors.

But I can make some educated guesses. First of all, the contracts are almost certainly regional - a distributor in Indiana isn't the one selling masks to China.

If 3M chooses to sell masks through their Asian distributor over their domestic distributors, that's on them - they know where their masks are going.
 
TheDoctorWasIn said:
It has everything to do with it.

3M (if the story in the OP is true, which I somewhat doubt) is selling their masks to foreign countries because it's apparently in their best interests to do that, rather then making them available to the states first.

That's how the private sector works.
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I admit I have not looked into this issue, but let us suppose that 3M had existing contracts before the COVID hysteria and scourge hit?
 
eohrnberger said:
I'm not objecting to the use of DPA in this case, as posted here that it was, but I've not read elsewhere

As I've maintained from the first post. Such poor decision making deserves it's own just rewards.
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Access Denied

It appears to have been signed a few hours ago - I would put money on it being signed during, or right after, the Tucker Carlson interview in the OP.
 
TheDoctorWasIn said:
I haven't seen the contracts 3M has with their distributors.

But I can make some educated guesses. First of all, the contracts are almost certainly regional - a distributor in Indiana isn't the one selling masks to China.

If 3M chooses to sell masks through their Asian distributor over their domestic distributors, that's on them - they know where their masks are going.
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Fine. As I posted all along, the bad decision making, wherever it may have been done, is where the consequences should lie. Be it 3M's distributors or be it 3M itself. Or even be it both. :shrug:
 
eohrnberger said:
Fine. As I posted all along, the bad decision making, wherever it may have been done, is where the consequences should lie. Be it 3M's distributors or be it 3M itself. Or even be it both. :shrug:
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There wont be any "consequences" for 3M - aside from being forced to sell to the government rather than to whoever they want.

3M hasn't done anything illegal - or even wrong.
 
TheDoctorWasIn said:
Access Denied

It appears to have been signed a few hours ago - I would put money on it being signed during, or right after, the Tucker Carlson interview in the OP.
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I suppose until it is documented someplace we, the public, won't know. I'll bet you that Trump saw it, called in the staff, "I want to talk to the FL guy" and "is what he's saying the real deal here?" Turns out it was, and done deal. Rather decisive.

I'll shed no tears for 3M or their distributors.
 
TheDoctorWasIn said:
Then they would have to fulfill their contractual obligations.

Unless the government chooses to get involved.
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that's true. I know something about that. At one time, Honeywell was making most of the spectra in this country. Spectra has lots of uses-the military uses it for ballistic vests, archery makers use it for bowstrings where it is called "Fastflite" at one time. The US government requisitioned all the domestic Spectra so companies like BCY and Brownell-the two leading archery string material suppliers, had to seek similar stuff overseas. Even though the domestic makers of spectra had contracts with Brownell and BCY, those were voided when the US Government requisitioned their material for making body armor for US troops in the middle east
 
eohrnberger said:
I don't disagree in the slightest. 3M screwed the pooch, and there's always a cost with that. For 3M, from what has been posted, has just received their DPA. Frankly, as posted above, I think they should be forced to sell them at or below cost. It would serve them right.



Opinions would seem to differ. I haven't seen the federal government move this quickly in my entire lifetime. It was always too little and too late.

Geez. There's an entire team of doctors and infectious disease specialists on the task force. WTF ARE you talking about?
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You are correct. There are doctors on the team and good ones from what we can tell. I am a Fauci fan. Who isn't? I'm glad we have him and Brix.

After watching a little bit of the briefing today with Jared I was pissed. I very much want Trump to get the **** out of the way, leave the team alone to do their job, give them support when asked, and otherwise to shut up about the virus. No more Pillow Guys, no more Jareds. This isn't a game show. Let Pence lead the team, let the doctors do what they do and let them tell us what we need to know. I'm tired of Trump's involvement. He impedes the process.
 
eohrnberger said:
I suppose until it is documented someplace we, the public, won't know. I'll bet you that Trump saw it, called in the staff, "I want to talk to the FL guy" and "is what he's saying the real deal here?" Turns out it was, and done deal. Rather decisive.

I'll shed no tears for 3M or their distributors.
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I think it's more likely that Trump saw the piece on Tucker Carlson, and demanded to his staff that he respond to it.

I doubt that he checked if it was "real" - I'm still not sure it is.
 
TheDoctorWasIn said:
There wont be any "consequences" for 3M - aside from being forced to sell to the government rather than to whoever they want.

3M hasn't done anything illegal - or even wrong.
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I think they exhibited a distinct lack of judgement in their decision making which led to these consequences.

The could have easily re-negotiated the deliveries, delayed the foreign customers, just as easily as they delayed the domestic customers.
Could they have not?

So you'd have to look at why the didn't, what was their decision making process which led them down the path they chose.

If 3M wanted government involvement, I hear there's an open door at the White House they could have come in and stated they needed help out of their foreign commitments. Pretty sure the WH would have obliged. No, instead, they tried to sneak by, and they got caught.

So fine. They deserve what consequences they get from this.
 
eohrnberger said:
I think they exhibited a distinct lack of judgement in their decision making which led to these consequences.

The could have easily re-negotiated the deliveries, delayed the foreign customers, just as easily as they delayed the domestic customers.
Could they have not?

So you'd have to look at why the didn't, what was their decision making process which led them down the path they chose.
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I don't necessarily disagree with you.

But that's the thing - unless you're a shareholder of 3M, you don't get a say in their corporate decisions. They haven't broken any laws.

That's why it's called private industry.
 
Linc said:
3M chose to sell overseas — kushner chose to give PPEs to China from HIS stockpile — a country that gives his wife trademarks —

the federal government is a ‘backup’, dontchaknow — a Private supply chain for the kushner/trump crime syndicate to benefit from — emoluments violations from day one —

kushner /trump must profit from PPEs we’re getting from China — god damn these ********ers for not fully implementing the DPA, as well as acting three months ago when they knew this —

whether they’ve intentionally or unintentionally ****ed over Blue people, the bottom line is that they have killed people that shouldn’t be dead — while red states will now infect other states —

doctors and nurses are barely surviving, as well as dying or being fired — a navy captain fired for trying to save his people — a President completely incapable of leading us, as JEB Bush predicted —
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:applaud:applaud
 
vesper said:
I happen to catch that segment tonight. I have no doubt the CEO has already heard from the WH but it was just disheartening to hear that young man urgently seeking supplies to protect the EMS only to have 3M not put the American people first. The very people that CEO may have to rely on during a crisis evidently doesn't think enough to provide them with the needed supplies to keep them healthy so they can continue to do their jobs.



Today this pandemic hit real close to home. A woman in her 50's mother had surgery and was being moved into a facility to undergo rehabilitation. She and her husband along with her brother went upstate to get her moved in because it was too much for her elderly father to tend to alone. The brother came down with the virus and was hospitalized. Her parents also got the virus and were hospitalized a couple of days later. All three were on ventilators. The brother died first and then her parents died a couple days later within hours of one another. Now her husband is in ICU on a ventilator fighting for his life and she is quarantined to her home.

This stuff is lethal and the CEO needs a come to Jesus moment.
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My thoughts EXACTLY.
 
Risky Thicket said:
You are correct. There are doctors on the team and good ones from what we can tell. I am a Fauci fan. Who isn't? I'm glad we have him and Brix.

After watching a little bit of the briefing today with Jared I was pissed. I very much want Trump to get the **** out of the way, leave the team alone to do their job, give them support when asked, and otherwise to shut up about the virus. No more Pillow Guys, no more Jareds. This isn't a game show. Let Pence lead the team, let the doctors do what they do and let them tell us what we need to know. I'm tired of Trump's involvement. He impedes the process.
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They all are 'clearing the way'. Who ever heard of the FDA approving a drug for off label use in a week? It's never moved that fast in my entire lifetime. Much the same in may other aspects of stupid bureaucratic nonsense and crap is just getting swept aside, and high time I say.
 
eohrnberger said:
They all are 'clearing the way'. Who ever heard of the FDA approving a drug for off label use in a week? It's never moved that fast in my entire lifetime. Much the same in may other aspects of stupid bureaucratic nonsense and crap is just getting swept aside, and high time I say.
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The FDA doesn't have to approve "off label" use.

That's why its called "off label".
 
Crovax said:
Only if they don’t want to go bankrupt from the negative backlash
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America first is bullcrap. We are a global economy. We are all in this together.
 
TheDoctorWasIn said:
I don't necessarily disagree with you.

But that's the thing - unless you're a shareholder of 3M, you don't get a say in their corporate decisions. They haven't broken any laws.

That's why it's called private industry.
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You don't believe that there's going to be any fall out from, and fall off in, in the market place from this bad PR?

It's still too bad that they can't be made to make them at cost, or even slightly below cost. But I suppose it depends on how hard a bargain the administration drives with 3M.
 
justabubba said:
when/how/why was the baton passed from VP pence to jared?
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It isn't official as far as I know. However, I have been reading recently about Jared's involvement. Recently, Trump gave Jared COVID-19 responsibilities that apparently duplicate Pence's team's work. Jared, as most of the world knows, is an idiot. He is incompetent and yet being the boss's son-in-law Jared has all the clout. Today Jared took the stage; his COVID coming out party. Too many cooks and all that and while Pence has the official position Jared has the ultimate authority. It was Jared as you recall who "determined" that Gov. Cuomo was lying and didn't need 30,000 masks. Jared told his father-in-law and Trump then blasted Cuomo for asking for more than he needed. Incidentally, it was reported this afternoon that at the current rate New York will be out of masks in 6 days.
 
TheDoctorWasIn said:
The FDA doesn't have to approve "off label" use.

That's why its called "off label".
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Odd.

www.forbes.com › sites › rachelsandler › 2020/03/30 › fda-approves-...
3 days ago - There is little evidence chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine are effective, but the president continues to tout them.

FDA authorizes emergency use of unapproved drugs to treat ...
[url]www.washingtonpost.com › business › 2020/03/30 › coronavirus-drugs...[/URL]
3 days ago - A pack of hydroxychloroquine sulfate medication. ... The FDA earlier this month approved a plan to distribute hundreds of thousands of doses of ...

FDA issues emergency authorization of anti-malaria drug for ...
[url]www.politico.com › news › 2020/03/29 › fda-emergency-authorizatio...[/URL]
4 days ago - The Food and Drug Administration on Sunday issued an emergency use authorization for hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine, decades-old ...
​

Perhaps I was using the term 'off-label' incorrectly.
 
eohrnberger said:
You don't believe that there's going to be any fall out from, and fall off in, in the market place from this bad PR?

It's still too bad that they can't be made to make them at cost, or even slightly below cost. But I suppose it depends on how hard a bargain the administration drives with 3M.
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That's the thing - it doesn't depend on how "hard" a bargain the administration drives.

The prices are set by equations that are defined by statute, based on a number of variables, including market price.
 
eohrnberger said:
Odd.

www.forbes.com › sites › rachelsandler › 2020/03/30 › fda-approves-...
3 days ago - There is little evidence chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine are effective, but the president continues to tout them.

FDA authorizes emergency use of unapproved drugs to treat ...
[url]www.washingtonpost.com › business › 2020/03/30 › coronavirus-drugs...[/URL]
3 days ago - A pack of hydroxychloroquine sulfate medication. ... The FDA earlier this month approved a plan to distribute hundreds of thousands of doses of ...

FDA issues emergency authorization of anti-malaria drug for ...
[url]www.politico.com › news › 2020/03/29 › fda-emergency-authorizatio...[/URL]
4 days ago - The Food and Drug Administration on Sunday issued an emergency use authorization for hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine, decades-old ...
​

Perhaps I was using the term 'off-label' incorrectly.
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To prescribe anything "off label" is to say this drug isn't approved to treat this condition, but I think it works.

Doctors generally only prescribe drugs for off-label treatments when the drugs are well known - because it opens them up to malpractice suits.
 
Risky Thicket said:
It isn't official as far as I know. However, I have been reading recently about Jared's involvement. Recently, Trump gave Jared COVID-19 responsibilities that apparently duplicate Pence's team's work. Jared, as most of the world knows, is an idiot. He is incompetent and yet being the boss's son-in-law Jared has all the clout. Today Jared took the stage; his COVID coming out party. Too many cooks and all that and while Pence has the official position Jared has the ultimate authority. It was Jared as you recall who "determined" that Gov. Cuomo was lying and didn't need 30,000 masks. Jared told his father-in-law and Trump then blasted Cuomo for asking for more than he needed. Incidentally, it was reported this afternoon that at the current rate New York will be out of masks in 6 days.
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Robert Kraft, who many people wanted jailed simply for getting a massage brought over 1.7 million N95 masks from China to cities like New York. We are not going to run out of masks damnit.
 
Bucky said:
Robert Kraft, who many people wanted jailed simply for getting a massage brought over 1.7 million N95 masks from China to cities like New York. We are not going to run out of masks damnit.
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My wife is a nurse in an urban hospital in DC.

She does not have an N95 mask. They didnt start giving her surgical masks until less than a week ago.
 
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