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From Conway with love.....

OscarLevant

OscarLevant

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Now, those who shout "Trump hater", that is not a rebuttal, that is a vacuous retort that does not contribute to the conversation, let alone refute what is stated.

See, it doesn't matter what anyone feels, Conway, or myself, doesn't matter what we feel about the president, if what is stated is true, that is what matters. If it's not, then refute it with facts or at least some kind of path of logic, anything. This is a debate forum, so DEBATE! Forward the conversation, and while you are at it, see if you can manage offering a rebuttal without loaded phrases, ad homimens, weasel words, etc.



George Conway:

"For Trump supporters, let me make one thing VERY clear!

For the record NO ONE is blaming the President for the virus. Let me repeat. Coronavirus is not Trump’s fault.

Here’s a detailed list of what we are blaming him for:

* Trump declined to use the World Health Organization’s test like other nations. Back in January, over a month before the first Co-vid19 case, the Chinese posted a new mysterious virus and within a week, Berlin virologists had produced the first diagnostic test. By the end of February, the WHO had shipped out tests to 60 countries. Oh, but not our government. We declined the test even as a temporary bridge until the CDC could create its own test. The question is why? We don’t know but what to look for is which pharmaceutical company eventually manufactures the test and who owns the stock. Keep tuned.

* In 2018 Trump fired Homeland Security Advisor Tom Bossart, whose job was to coordinate a response to global pandemics. He was not replaced.

* In 2018 Dr. Luciana Borio, the NSC director for medical and bio-defense preparedness left the job. Trump did not replace Dr. Borio.

* In 2019 the NSC’s Senior Director for Global Health Security and bio-defense, Tim Ziemer, left the position and Trump did not replace the Rear Admiral.

* Trump shut down the entire Global Health Security and Bio-defense agency. Yes, he did.

* Amid the explosive worldwide outbreak of the virus Trump proposed a 19% cut to the budget of the Centers of Disease Control and Prevention plus a 10% cut to Public Health Services and a 7% cut to Global Health Services. Those happen to be the organizations that respond to public health threats.

* In 2018, at Trump’s direction, the CDC stopped funding epidemic prevention activities in 39 out of 49 countries including China.

* Trump didn’t appoint a doctor to oversee the US response to the pandemic. He appointed Mike Pence.

* Trump has on multiple occasions sowed doubt about the severity of the virus even using the word hoax at events and rallies. He even did it at an event where the virus was being spread. Trump has put out zero useful information concerning the health risks of the virus.

* Trump pretended the virus had been contained.

* Trump left a cruise ship at sea for days, denying them proper hospital care, rather than increase his numbers in America.

Repeat. We do not blame Trump for the virus. We blame him for gutting the nation’s preparations to deal with it. We blame him for bungling testing and allowing it to spread uninhibited. We blame him for wasting taxpayer money on applause lines at his rallies (like The Wall). We blame him for putting his own political life over American human life. I hope this clears things up."

This is why the U.S. has the highest number of cases on the planet!!!
Click to expand...
 
'vacuous retort' is an excellent description of Trump supporters hating on their opponents
 
Yeah...pretty much what I expect from Conway...and from you, OscarLevant: Spin and nonsense. (and a few lies)

But hey...you want rebuttal, right? Okay.

1. There is no such thing as "Global Health Security and Bio-defense agency". There was an office within the National Security Council, but it wasn't an "agency".

2. That office was, in fact, shut down, but it's work wasn't. It was folded into other offices within the National Security Council. The work continued to be done.

Some of the rest of Conway's screed is nothing more than a disagreement of decisions made. For example, Conway has some sort of heartburn because a doctor wasn't appointed to oversee the US response to the pandemic. Too bad. There is nothing that says a doctor HAS to be in charge. In fact, considering the fact that the US response requires much that has nothing to do with medicine, it's likely that a doctor is NOT a good fit to oversee our response. Someone experienced in a wide range of government...different agencies...etc, would be better. Someone like Pence.

But hey, OscarLevant...you, Conway and other TDS sufferers love your spin and nonsense. I'll leave you to it.

Moving on...
 
OscarLevant said:
Now, those who shout "Trump hater", that is not a rebuttal, that is a vacuous retort that does not contribute to the conversation, let alone refute what is stated.

See, it doesn't matter what anyone feels, Conway, or myself, doesn't matter what we feel about the president, if what is stated is true, that is what matters. If it's not, then refute it with facts or at least some kind of path of logic, anything. This is a debate forum, so DEBATE! Forward the conversation, and while you are at it, see if you can manage offering a rebuttal without loaded phrases, ad homimens, weasel words, etc.
Click to expand...

Well let's see.

1. The first Covid-19 case occurred back sometime in November 2019, in Wuhan. If the author meant the first in the USA, he should be clearer. Meanwhile, it is true that the Germans developed a test on 01/17/20. The first US confirmed case was on 01/20/20, a Chinese male who had returned to the USA a week earlier. 2020 coronavirus pandemic in the United States - Wikipedia

2. In order to decline the WHO tests, they had to have been offered. There was no "offer and refusal." We did chose to develop our own. Did US 'Refuse' COVID-19 Testing Kits from the World Health Organization?

3. Bolton did fire Tom Bossert back in 2018. So what?

4. Dr. Luciana Borio did quit the job in 2018. Again, so what?

5. Adm. Tim Ziemer did leave the position on 2019. Once more, so what?

6. The Global Health Security and Bio-defense agency was not "shut down." It still seems to be in existence. COVID-19 Chair’s Statement: What is the role of GHSA2024 in this pandemic? – Global Health Security Agenda

7. He did "shut down" all that aid to foreign countries. Trump Has Sabotaged America's Response to the Coronavirus Pandemic

The rest of the "list" is a bunch of commentary/opinion on things some people agree, and other disagree about. 20/20 hindsight armchair quarterbacking version 1 million and one.

Just another "Trump did 'very bad things again,' Orange Man BAAAD!" list.

Try again?
 
OscarLevant said:
Now, those who shout "Trump hater", that is not a rebuttal, that is a vacuous retort that does not contribute to the conversation, let alone refute what is stated.

See, it doesn't matter what anyone feels, Conway, or myself, doesn't matter what we feel about the president, if what is stated is true, that is what matters. If it's not, then refute it with facts or at least some kind of path of logic, anything. This is a debate forum, so DEBATE! Forward the conversation, and while you are at it, see if you can manage offering a rebuttal without loaded phrases, ad homimens, weasel words, etc.
Click to expand...

Wow!!

I think George is sleeping on the sofa tonight. A detailed investigation will be required at the other end of this War. A whole catalogue of errors and missteps. It has left our health care heroes without the equipment and tools to fight.
 
Hamish Howl said:
Good for him. Can't imagine sleeping next to that lizard he's married to.
Click to expand...

I am not interested in others marriages, but I do wonder how those two keep it together.
 
OscarLevant said:
Now, those who shout "Trump hater", that is not a rebuttal, that is a vacuous retort that does not contribute to the conversation, let alone refute what is stated.

See, it doesn't matter what anyone feels, Conway, or myself, doesn't matter what we feel about the president, if what is stated is true, that is what matters. If it's not, then refute it with facts or at least some kind of path of logic, anything. This is a debate forum, so DEBATE! Forward the conversation, and while you are at it, see if you can manage offering a rebuttal without loaded phrases, ad homimens, weasel words, etc.
Click to expand...

Gee whiz! George Conway finds fault wit everything Trump ever did? I'm blown away! :lamo
 
Captain Adverse said:
Well let's see.

1. The first Covid-19 case occurred back sometime in November 2019, in Wuhan. If the author meant the first in the USA, he should be clearer. Meanwhile, it is true that the Germans developed a test on 01/17/20. The first US confirmed case was on 01/20/20, a Chinese male who had returned to the USA a week earlier. 2020 coronavirus pandemic in the United States - Wikipedia

2. In order to decline the WHO tests, they had to have been offered. There was no "offer and refusal." We did chose to develop our own. Did US 'Refuse' COVID-19 Testing Kits from the World Health Organization?

3. Bolton did fire Tom Bossert back in 2018. So what?

4. Dr. Luciana Borio did quit the job in 2018. Again, so what?

5. Adm. Tim Ziemer did leave the position on 2019. Once more, so what?

6. The Global Health Security and Bio-defense agency was not "shut down." It still seems to be in existence. COVID-19 Chair’s Statement: What is the role of GHSA2024 in this pandemic? – Global Health Security Agenda

7. He did "shut down" all that aid to foreign countries. Trump Has Sabotaged America's Response to the Coronavirus Pandemic

The rest of the "list" is a bunch of commentary/opinion on things some people agree, and other disagree about. 20/20 hindsight armchair quarterbacking version 1 million and one.

Just another "Trump did 'very bad things again,' Orange Man BAAAD!" list.

Try again?
Click to expand...

"So what?" Yes, that's a well-articulated argument. Their significance was indicated in the bullet point.

and the accumulation of stupid or irresponsible or poor judgement calls adds up...big time.
 
it won't matter. Trump voters seem to love the con man.
 
CaughtInThe said:
it won't matter. Trump voters seem to love the con man.
Click to expand...

He gives them thrills, that they haven't experienced in many years. Their Master, King and lover.
 
Captain Adverse said:
Well let's see.

1. The first Covid-19 case occurred back sometime in November 2019, in Wuhan. If the author meant the first in the USA, he should be clearer. Meanwhile, it is true that the Germans developed a test on 01/17/20. The first US confirmed case was on 01/20/20, a Chinese male who had returned to the USA a week earlier. 2020 coronavirus pandemic in the United States - Wikipedia

2. In order to decline the WHO tests, they had to have been offered. There was no "offer and refusal." We did chose to develop our own. Did US 'Refuse' COVID-19 Testing Kits from the World Health Organization?

3. Bolton did fire Tom Bossert back in 2018. So what?

4. Dr. Luciana Borio did quit the job in 2018. Again, so what?

5. Adm. Tim Ziemer did leave the position on 2019. Once more, so what?
Click to expand...
So what? Neither the NSC nor DHS epidemic teams have been replaced..

Moreover, Are you fully aware of the number of staff who have either quit, pressured to resign, or left under cloud of scandal in Trump's administration? It's "historic", as Trump likes to say about everything he does.
6. The Global Health Security and Bio-defense agency was not "shut down." It still seems to be in existence. COVID-19 Chair’s Statement: What is the role of GHSA2024 in this pandemic? – Global Health Security Agenda

7. He did "shut down" all that aid to foreign countries. Trump Has Sabotaged America's Response to the Coronavirus Pandemic

The rest of the "list" is a bunch of commentary/opinion on things some people agree, and other disagree about. 20/20 hindsight armchair quarterbacking version 1 million and one.

Just another "Trump did 'very bad things again,' Orange Man BAAAD!" list.

Try again?
Click to expand...



I've referenced this article before, in a much earlier thread

Trump Has Sabotaged America's Response to the Coronavirus Pandemic

It's pretty damning.


You don't refute it?
 
OscarLevant said:
So what? Neither the NSC nor DHS epidemic teams have been replaced..

Moreover, Are you fully aware of the number of staff who have either quit, pressured to resign, or left under cloud of scandal in Trump's administration? It's "historic", as Trump likes to say about everything he does.




I've referenced this article before, in a much earlier thread

Trump Has Sabotaged America's Response to the Coronavirus Pandemic

It's pretty damning.


You don't refute it?
Click to expand...

I cited it only to point out that he did shut down foreign aid. I personally agree. Why people think we must needs be both the world's policeman AND it's Nanny I have never understood. :no:

It is only damning to those who DO think we must needs be both those things.

As far as I am concerned, my tax dollars should be used sparingly and specifically to take care of America and Americans first. :coffeepap:
 
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Hamish Howl said:
Good for him. Can't imagine sleeping next to that lizard he's married to.
Click to expand...

He's not exactly a beacon of sexual charisma himself. Unless one can find a lot of attractive women who are into a man who looks for all the world like a peeled soft-boiled egg who grew his hair out.
 
Hamish Howl said:
Good for him. Can't imagine sleeping next to that lizard he's married to.
Click to expand...

There’s a saying: “Every marriage is a foreign country.” That said, I have no idea how they make this work either (assuming they actually do).
 
Felis Leo said:
He's not exactly a beacon of sexual charisma himself. Unless one can find a lot of attractive women who are into a man who looks for all the world like a peeled soft-boiled egg who grew his hair out.
Click to expand...

If attractiveness to the opposite (or same) sex alone were based exclusively on raw Hollywood-standard sexual appeal, 99% of us would die alone and unloved. The fact that the human race is capable of persevering in spite of most of us having been born on the ugly tree and hitting every branch on the way down is testament to the fact that there’s something more than Hollywood-standard physical appeal going on.
 
Cardinal said:
If attractiveness to the opposite (or same) sex alone were based exclusively on raw Hollywood-standard sexual appeal, 99% of us would die alone and unloved. The fact that the human race is capable of persevering in spite of most of us having been born on the ugly tree and hitting every branch on the way down is testament to the fact that there’s something more than Hollywood-standard physical appeal going on.
Click to expand...

True that, Cardinal.
 
OscarLevant said:
So what? Neither the NSC nor DHS epidemic teams have been replaced..

Moreover, Are you fully aware of the number of staff who have either quit, pressured to resign, or left under cloud of scandal in Trump's administration? It's "historic", as Trump likes to say about everything he does.




I've referenced this article before, in a much earlier thread

Trump Has Sabotaged America's Response to the Coronavirus Pandemic

It's pretty damning.


You don't refute it?
Click to expand...

What's particularly damning is that the article was published in January. The response has gotten markedly worse since then.
 
Captain Adverse said:
I cited it only to point out that he did shut down foreign aid. I personally agree. Why people think we must needs be both the world's policeman AND it's Nanny I have never understood. :no:
Click to expand...
The things you don't understand would fill the Encyclopedia Britannica. The point, my friend, is that if we don't fight the virus over there, we fight it over here. Had we had the personnel in place a) we would have known early on what we were facing, and b) we might have contained it before it reached our shores. It is more than one step, so I can appreciate why you might have difficulty following the logic.
 
Old 'N Chill said:
He gives them thrills, that they haven't experienced in many years. Their Master, King and lover.
Click to expand...

In a matter of speaking you are correct. Trump trolls liberals and everyone else who dares to get in his spotlight or disagree. For many of his supporters that is icing on the cake, to troll liberals.
 
Page 3 now. Nothing refuted. I think Oscarlevant (I'll bet not even 7 people know who Oscar Levant was, including me and you!) can stop waiting and hoping for intelligent debate. I doubt its coming tomorrow!
 
Mycroft said:
Conway has some sort of heartburn because a doctor wasn't appointed to oversee the US response to the pandemic. Too bad. There is nothing that says a doctor HAS to be in charge. In fact, considering the fact that the US response requires much that has nothing to do with medicine, it's likely that a doctor is NOT a good fit to oversee our response. Someone experienced in a wide range of government...different agencies...etc, would be better. Someone like Pence.
Click to expand...

Perhaps you're not aware that Pence already has a body count for his disastrous mismanagement of an HIV outbreak in Indiana when he was governor. Not the kind of resume that I would pick to head the task force.
 
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