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How long can this continue?

joko104 said:
This truly is insanity and complete reckless irresponsibility. The potential harms could go off the charts - national or worldwide massive depression or recession. Complete social break down only somewhat contained by martial law and the national guard or even military itself.

I don't mean to be alarmist. Just a simple fact - a question - what happens when the shelves go bare? When you are waiting for your daily bag of rice because you and your family are hungry? When that government check actually has no value to whatsoever?

Who can most declare the most terrifying or clever slogans isn't reality. Hatred of Donald Trump or the Democrats is entirely IRRELEVANT to anything.

The government to completely incompetent - ALL OF IT - both parties. Thi is what you get when government is mostly a collection of lawyers and multi-millionaires via money brokering. The MSM is clueless. The medical experts live in their own little bubble.

None really care about you. None grasp reality, only pondering what sensational thing can they say at the moment for "look at me!!!"
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So I should file for bankruptcy?
 
One part of the business I truly enjoy is the psychology of marketing.

There is an old saying "you can sell anything if the person thinks it's stolen." My variation of that is you can sell anything if people think they are stealing it.

The most common method? Slightly reduce the price of a popular item with a very generous margin of profit stating it is in temporarily on sale. However, in the shopping cart, the check out price actually is about 14% less - and it didn't pick up the S&H charge too. Obviously, someone at the company screwed up big time! Better buy 5 or 10 of them quick before someone fixes it! So even though there is less profit for a single sale, you make 2, 3, 4 times as much in terms of bottom line profit - because otherwise they would only have bought 1 - or maybe backed out buying one. And even more - they put out the word online and to people they know - so people rushing to join in the theft! They are all stealing it to their mind, so therefore really stock up while you still can.

They can't resist buying at least one because they are stealing it to their mind due to an employee error. Yet it is no fraud to have it cost much less on check out, is it? NO ONE EVER has informed "Just FYI, the cart price is wrong." But they will if it is a dime higher and won't buy until you fix it.

Another example:

We have a product we make that is unique and a truly excellent product. No else has anything like. It really is excellent. It is not repackaging, but our production. But it didn't sell because no one knew what it is and every merchant brags on their products so that wouldn't sell it. So we changed to put it in an odd bottle and gave it an odd name - to get people to ponder what it is. Then below the cart button is said "Strict limit of one per customer." The only product we had that said that. The others say "In stock ready to ship - no limit."

BOOM! Sales went up 1000%. This got it into chatter in the blogger/Facebook/Twitter/forum/chat rooms - and sales just kept going up - particularly when I put into a few of those talk-circles as someone commenting: "They will only sell 1 to you and if you buy more they will refund all of it. But the software doesn't stop you from buying 1 every day!" This spread like a wildfire on a hot windy day during a dry spell.

The secret inside track of how cheat the system! Better buy 1 a day. For 10 days. Damn, they're beating the system! LOL

P. T. Barnum: "There's a sucker born every minute."
 
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joko104 said:
Why? What potential business shortage do you face?
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That’s what we’re asking re his insane campaign pressers.

We’ll be giving our $2,400 to local businesses with huge tips. It’s stupid to give it to us.

A huge % of retired people like my Wife and I should be means-tested. Baby boomers will never allow means-testing.
 
As long as it needs to.
Japan came back from atomic bombs and beat the U.S. in autos and electronics...I think we can handle stay at home for a time, especially considering most of that infrastructure will be OK. Government debt, at a time like this, is a problem we can solve over time.
 
I got some interesting data today in Ohio. We have hit close to 100 deaths from the virus and data shows that 90 some percent have been 60 and older. Only one death to someone in their 40's and 7 deaths out of the 100 in their 50's.

ohio coronavirus update - Bing

This has been in a state whose governor shut just about everything down three weeks ago. It shows clearly the elderly are at the greatest risk. No surprise there the older we get the less we find we can't fight infections of any kind.

If other states show the same kind of data after 3 weeks of this crap then it is time to start quarantining the elderly and allow the rest of the population to start to get back to normal.
 
Linc said:
That’s what we’re asking re his insane campaign pressers.

We’ll be giving our $2,400 to local businesses with huge tips. It’s stupid to give it to us.

A huge % of retired people like my Wife and I should be means-tested. Baby boomers will never allow means-testing.
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I agree to a means test for social security and medicare. Social security was set up when people lived to 67, giving them 2 years of moderately acceptable living their last two years. Then we added aid to dependent children. The monetary monster of disability - with the massive fraud of that golden goose. Surviving spouse - and on and on - as people live 10 times longer and not a dime of those social security payments saved.

But blame the Baby boomer? Young adults now expect EVERYTHING for free - NOW! They aren't willing to work a lifetime to have that great house and car, they want it NOW. Latest electronics. New one every year. They don't eat at home, they eat out all the time, must buy that new car, apps, video games - anything they see and want that they can put on a credit card or buy with their next pay check (or government assistance check). Must have it. Can't pay their college loan because of their new car and smart phone. They save NOTHING - rather put it on the credit card debt. Free college. Free medical care - the government replacing their mommy and daddy. A majority of young adults literally want socialism - so everything is free and they forever provide for.

Don't point a finger at baby boomers. The bitching by young adults is that but for the baby boomers national debt, they could get exactly everything they want and need for free, the government covering every lazy ass screw up they do. They non-stop waste money every day, sobbing they are in debt.
 
vesper said:
I got some interesting data today in Ohio. We have hit close to 100 deaths from the virus and data shows that 90 some percent have been 60 and older. Only one death to someone in their 40's and 7 deaths out of the 100 in their 50's.

ohio coronavirus update - Bing

This has been in a state whose governor shut just about everything down three weeks ago. It shows clearly the elderly are at the greatest risk. No surprise there the older we get the less we find we can't fight infections of any kind.

If other states show the same kind of data after 3 weeks of this crap then it is time to start quarantining the elderly and allow the rest of the population to start to get back to normal.
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Should have done that from day one and it was obvious from day one.
 
Tens of thousands of companies - from mom-pop to small and midsize - are going out of business as I write this for lack of bottles for liquid products. We know this in fact because we see it happening to companies in our product line and we are getting the panic calls from companies we do supply - wanting assurances of continued shipments from us. We do or don't give assurance on 2 factors: 1.) We do not have time for very small volume container wholesales, particularly since no covid-19 essential business and organizations don't use those and it is a consumer product that consumers have alternative to or 2.) if they are price gouging (and we check).

Since we did sell products - wholesale and consumer level - in small bottles and have discontinued doing so, we have tens to hundreds of thousands of such bottles - for us to decide if we hang on to them or let competitors and other repackagers have them. It has nothing to do with us wanting to put the competitors out of business and if we did we would never had sold them their products or bulk chemicals - which we have done at our costs for years because we don't want the business. If they are price gouging we won't. If not, we will. So that is someone else's task to research.

We will not run out of bottles after all. I can get all the company needs - semi-trucks full - and even are getting bottles from other companies including huge Fortune 500 types - but that's a long story. I have a letter from someone we have interacted with for years with a god-all-powerful government agency stating we are "critical" and "essential" that all should "assist and cooperate with." While assuring giving us that letter was all there was, that gave me what I needed to do some serious smoke and mirrors poker playing with suppliers, brokers and other companies selling non-essential products that use bottles, jugs and container we need to keep supplying - including other companies that sell the same products buying from us wholesale.

Will that corporate guy agree they will sell us 50% of their unused bottles at cost plus 20% for just 1 of their hundreds of product lines for which they can still have all their sales otherwise in bags or other bottles? Or does the person that company what to be the one responsible for his company becoming the next 3M being ripped on CNN and FOX, with the president then doing what he did to 3M? For example, is it "essential" that women be able to spend twice the price - but a 10% higher cost to the company so far more profitable for the same quantity - to get cat litter in a convenient plastic F-style bottle OR more important to keep laboratories, clinics, hospitals, dairy farmers, chicken ranches, and overall across the entire food product chain from shutting down? If you were that company guy - and saw a letter from a god-almighty federal agency with a high ranker title urging cooperation for something covid-19 critically essential - would you say "no, have FOX and CNN call me and I will explain the greater critically essential national need for cat litter available in plastic jugs?"

Worked every time. All the bottles coming we possibly could need and more. When Vegas opens up I should try my hand at poker - because it all a bluff and I actually had no cards to really play at all.

To buy bottles now, most suppliers require proof of being covid-19 essential or you can buy nothing - and even then very low allocations.

This is now hitting boxes. Our box supplier, the largest in the USA, sent all past and current customers an email that basically says "if you need boxes, get them now and stock up" - because non customers are placing hoarding orders as other box suppliers run out. Already they have sold out many items or only allowing small allocations to existing customers. We are a long time large buyer so we can get a little past allocations, but not much as I haven't tried to pay any big-stick bluffing and now won't need to. Today I ordered semi trucks full of boxes and other inventory items such as hazmat bagging materials. I have until Tuesday to figure where to put them as those can't be stored outside. Probably get 8 big U-Haul trucks to use for storage. We have already started doing that.
 
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This is what I do now - procurement. All day. Searching at night too. "When the going gets tough, the tough get going." Within a week, two at the most, the only source of two critical chemicals we sell will will for the only be available from us or retailers - other than radical price gougers and that is growing like crazy online - we supply for anyone operation that for regulatory, zoning, or practical reasons can not use tanker size deliveries or 3000 pound carboy containers. We have not and will not do any price gouging profiteering. None.


A second round massive shortages will hit all of the USA for nearly everything - I figure in 2 to 3 weeks. There will be a restocking - and because of shortages now there will be massive hoarding at both a consumer and business level when the first major restocking comes. We're already ahead of that. These are crazy times.
 
I found a way to justify refusing to ship anything to California or otherwise not shipping anything there due to obscure California regulations by which I can claim doing so is illegal. More than any other state, California has a massive collection of regulations that they never enforce unless they is someone they want to get or a tool to shake fine money out of companies.

We ship 2 extremely critical covid-19 relevant chemicals used all along the food chain. For one we are the supplier to almost all merchant of it and the other we are the overwhelming highest volume manufacturer for which all others have been out for weeks. We'll send out the notices by the middle of this week to California customers and merchants. That will save us a little time we don't want to spend on any of this. Not being in California their courts can't order us to do anything and I seriously doubt the President will be receptive to a war powers act order for California - to stop such industries and companies maybe having to shift their operations to other states.

We don't have to sell anything to anyone anyway, but it is better to be able to blame it on California's Democratic government. We don't write California regulations. "Notice: California law prohibits..."
 
joko104 said:
I found a way to justify refusing to ship anything to California or otherwise not shipping anything there due to obscure California regulations by which I can claim doing so is illegal. More than any other state, California has a massive collection of regulations that they never enforce unless they is someone they want to get or a tool to shake fine money out of companies.

We ship 2 extremely critical covid-19 relevant chemicals used all along the food chain. For one we are the supplier to almost all merchant of it and the other we are the overwhelming highest volume manufacturer for which all others have been out for weeks. We'll send out the notices by the middle of this week to California customers and merchants. That will save us a little time we don't want to spend on any of this. Not being in California their courts can't order us to do anything and I seriously doubt the President will be receptive to a war powers act order for California - to stop such industries and companies maybe having to shift their operations to other states.

We don't have to sell anything to anyone anyway, but it is better to be able to blame it on California's Democratic government. We don't write California regulations. "Notice: California law prohibits..."
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What are the chemicals?
 
BlueTex said:
What are the chemicals?
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Sorry, won't say. Doing so would point at me (privacy). One is not rare. Rather, federal regulations severely limit how much anyone or company may have - less than a drum - unless a DHS approved and registered facility due to potential sinister usage. Such licensing only slightly easier that it would to obtain than trying to obtain an awake adult lion's teeth with a pliers. Therefore, they need constantly supply of continuous smaller containers - ie - repackaged and then also must be a hazmat shipper.

After 9-11, California created a regulation that certain chemicals can not be sold to anyone without obtaining the purchasers name, address including home address, date of birth, state ID number and social security number and stating the purpose of usage. Chemical supply companies fled California. Would YOU give that information to some company you were ordering from online or otherwise? While never enforced, it is still on the books. However, actually that would apply to shipping into California too (we will not ship to ANY country because how do we know what their local, state/regional, and national laws are today?)

So to those customers, we will explain we are required to obtain that information, we don't want the liabilities of having it, so won't ship to California.

The other is quite obscure. Technically under California regulations there is no consumable "health" product that can be sold with out the California version of the FDA's approval AND that anyone can sue as a private individual getting a huge pre-set civil judgement plus attorney fees and court costs. There is an organization in California that sprung up a couple years ago with a law firm on-board doing just that - for which we terminated some other sales to California - only California.

Since if used as a food preservative (before not economically viable) and therefore a consumable "health" product it falls under that California regulations we can not legally ship it and our liabilities too great if we did - though probably a billion such OTC products with out the California seal of approval are shipping and mail to California including by Amazon Prime etc.

Even though 99.99999% of the time such regulations are ignored, still they are the law. Therefore, that is our justification.
 
I can't count the number of times some inspector or regulator was getting on our case, only to learn we knew a great collection of regulations - so could pit regulation against regulation, claiming the opposing regulation of some other agency was more "anti-terrorist" or more dangerous just because we say so -refusing to comply - and if necessary (rare) accusing that inspector being a terrorist supporter if s/he doesn't back off. Only one didn't, it went all the way to DC and he was removed as an inspector. Generally as soon as we point out we are a DHS facility and we dance for them, not their agency, most were smart enough to back off (and never return).

We take what we do in such regards VERY seriously, once even told by a high-up in the DHS we are better than any other company (after we refused to comply with FBI administrative subpoenas -not court order subpoenas) to examine our computer records investigating a potential terrorist threat. Finally, both times they agreed to tell us what they want and if we have it and it appropriate to give them, we'll bring to them in person (refusing even entry into the facility they were at). "NO ACCESS." "SECURE RECORDS" does not mean "unless someone flashes a badge and has a piece of paper." Because almost all company people will kiss-ass to any badge or even any inspector is one reason of many reasons likely the DHS is so hesitant to approve any facility with certain chemicals.

How many times did I say to an inspector "do you have documentation I can confirm that you have security clearance to have those records or (the answer to the question)?" Most didn't have a clue how to answer and just would repeat what agency they are with and cite some section allowing inspections. We would recite back that because we are refusing, s/he needs to now obtain a formal request on official letterhead as the next step in those same regulations. There is about 7 steps they have to go thru - one at a time - if refused - ultimately requiring a court order. BUT be careful. If you piss them off that much, be ready for a potential fight to mat with massive risks if you lose. You better have an ace-in-the-hole before playing that game - and we did. Only needed to play it once (never overplay your hand in a conflict).
 
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