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Thread: How long can this continue?

  1. #31
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    Re: How long can this continue?

    Quote Originally Posted by Drawdown View Post
    The crisis won't be over. It will be chronic as long as there is money to be had. You do understand that if people are not suffering, they are not going to be taking prevention serious dontcha?
    That is why the governors shut down their states. Because stupid people like Rand Paul think because they are not suffering, no one else will. But people are suffering and people are dying. It is either going to get worse or better. What are you doing to prevent the spread?
    Being within reasonable limits; not excessive or extreme

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    Re: How long can this continue?

    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    That is why the governors shut down their states. Because stupid people like Rand Paul think because they are not suffering, no one else will. But people are suffering and people are dying. It is either going to get worse or better. What are you doing to prevent the spread?
    I am coughing a lot whenever I go out in public. That makes sure people don't get 10 feet from me, let alone 6

    Flattening the curve will have no appreciable effect on preventing deaths. It just stretches them out over a longer time frame.

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    Re: How long can this continue?

    Quote Originally Posted by Drawdown View Post
    I am coughing a lot whenever I go out in public. That makes sure people don't get 10 feet from me, let alone 6

    Flattening the curve will have no appreciable effect on preventing deaths. It just stretches them out over a longer time frame.

    Deaths will be prevented by not overburdening the healthcare system with too many cases at the same time.

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    Re: How long can this continue?

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    You can't eat unemployment benefits. Unemployment benefits will not get you perscription and OTC drugs. Money is only worth what it can buy - and how much it costs.
    I was talking about the Netherlands, health care is affordable. You pay just a few dozens of dollars a month, I pay about 60 euro, no drugs costs (prescription), no out of pockets costs whatsoever.

    All I am saying is that unemployment benefits should not be there for people to live on comfortably for life.
    Easy rule to hold yourself to, avoid crowds. Use masks when in public transport or when you cannot keep distance, help society by protecting yourself

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    Re: How long can this continue?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bok_Tukalo View Post
    Deaths will be prevented by not overburdening the healthcare system with too many cases at the same time.
    And deaths will be caused by financial ruins of a protracted economic disruption. It will be a wash.

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    Re: How long can this continue?

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    I've commented before that other than mega billion dollar companies, companies deeply tied into government (like defense contractors) or a tunnel vision (currently ventilators and masks), government never considers or communicates with the private sector at all. This not only leads to idiotic changes or rules, but serious production problems and even some sector saying "to hell with this" and just getting out of it.

    I'll try not to ramble, but do wish to make the point. Someone we know told us yesterday a gallon of milk he bought the day before turned to a white gel overnight. It was not spoiled or near expiration date. I know what that means. Some dairy farmer ran out of some chemical he uses so used another than generally works for liquids, but did not know it reacts with milk. That then could do so to all the other milk it was added to down the food processing path. While people think of food products in terms of mega companies and grocery stores, actually food is a network originating for hundreds of thousands of small sources - domestic and international. Most people don't know there are unnamed chemicals in nearly all consumable products. For example, bottled purified water has chemicals added to it, with the USDA approving doing so - and approving not stating so on the label because it toxic. Other than salt and citrus, most preservatives are poisons. However, the opinion is tiny trace amounts don't hurt you and the dangers of spoiled and contaminated foods and liquids is just too great in the alternative.

    Yesterday, I spent most the day buying up the last of a key ingredient for our unique signature product - buying the last of small amounts all over the country - where before I'd just place 1 order once a month. However, now a month's supply is a 5 day supply. Tomorrow I will pursue buying the last in New Zealand and Australia (the EU long out of it). Most mega companies will not bother with tiny purchases and will just be out of inventory. Most small scale companies don't have the funds to carry much inventory. So I am finding it, but that will end.

    The rest of yesterday and today I am seeking out and buying up the last of a particularly popular size and style bottle - and any even close to being like it. I'm finding 500 here, a thousand there, 100, and the "big score" of 10,000. If lucky I'll be able to find maybe 20,000. At current levels we need over 100,000 minimally for the next 30 days, and that might not be enough. We're down to about 10,000 or so. Thousands of other companies use that bottle style and size. NONE can get it. The bottle suppliers all estimate replacement inventory the end of April. But I know what that means. It means they hope to get delivery from China by then.

    It is just assumed "don't worry, they'll be food." "Don't worry, there will still be over-the-counter drugs." "Don't worry, there will be everything to electric companies to replace blow transformers." "Don't worry, there will be plenty of ........" How does the government know that? The government doesn't know that at all. The government does not communicate with the private sector. There is no assurance empty food shelves will be filled. There is no assurance food processors will have what they need so the food and beverages are safe. Switching to other chemicals or make shift measures carries many risks as well. Masks and ventilators aren't the only thing hospitals can run out of. Here, their supplier of distilled water (true distilled water) just delivered the last 30 five gallon jugs of true zero ppm water - to us. They don't know when they'll have more. Want distilled water? Maybe WalMart has some left. Good enough for a hospital? It's not good enough for us. We tested it a couple years ago. ALMOST zero ppms. ALMOST means NOT distilled water. We are stocking up everything we can realizing everything is going to rapidly cease to be available anywhere in the country - or the free world.

    If we lose packaging ability or inventory ability, many food processors and other operations of others lose the ability to do their thing too. Some of our producing commercial customers are going into panic mode. How can they keep operating? At first, it was "YAHOO! We're making money now!' with huge sales increases. But this is becoming "how do we stay in business without what we must have?!"
    TWEET your boy and tell him to send the country back to work.

    Holy crap. It's like no Republicans want to actually tell our President what the right thing to do is.

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    Re: How long can this continue?

    Quote Originally Posted by Drawdown View Post
    And deaths will be caused by financial ruins of a protracted economic disruption. It will be a wash.
    I thought you were talking about deaths due to complications arising from COVID-19.

    I am not convinced that there would be as many deaths from suicide, abuse, and dependency due to economic hardship than there would be from more cases than the healthcare system could handle.

    Also, actions have been taken to alleviate the economic hardship.

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    Re: How long can this continue?

    Quote Originally Posted by Drawdown View Post
    I am coughing a lot whenever I go out in public. That makes sure people don't get 10 feet from me, let alone 6

    Flattening the curve will have no appreciable effect on preventing deaths. It just stretches them out over a longer time frame.
    Flattening the curve means less people are dying, less people are getting sick and less people are spreading the virus
    Being within reasonable limits; not excessive or extreme

  9. #39
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    Re: How long can this continue?

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    I've commented before that other than mega billion dollar companies, companies deeply tied into government (like defense contractors) or a tunnel vision (currently ventilators and masks), government never considers or communicates with the private sector at all. This not only leads to idiotic changes or rules, but serious production problems and even some sector saying "to hell with this" and just getting out of it.

    I'll try not to ramble, but do wish to make the point. Someone we know told us yesterday a gallon of milk he bought the day before turned to a white gel overnight. It was not spoiled or near expiration date. I know what that means. Some dairy farmer ran out of some chemical he uses so used another than generally works for liquids, but did not know it reacts with milk. That then could do so to all the other milk it was added to down the food processing path. While people think of food products in terms of mega companies and grocery stores, actually food is a network originating for hundreds of thousands of small sources - domestic and international. Most people don't know there are unnamed chemicals in nearly all consumable products. For example, bottled purified water has chemicals added to it, with the USDA approving doing so - and approving not stating so on the label because it toxic. Other than salt and citrus, most preservatives are poisons. However, the opinion is tiny trace amounts don't hurt you and the dangers of spoiled and contaminated foods and liquids is just too great in the alternative.

    Yesterday, I spent most the day buying up the last of a key ingredient for our unique signature product - buying the last of small amounts all over the country - where before I'd just place 1 order once a month. However, now a month's supply is a 5 day supply. Tomorrow I will pursue buying the last in New Zealand and Australia (the EU long out of it). Most mega companies will not bother with tiny purchases and will just be out of inventory. Most small scale companies don't have the funds to carry much inventory. So I am finding it, but that will end.

    The rest of yesterday and today I am seeking out and buying up the last of a particularly popular size and style bottle - and any even close to being like it. I'm finding 500 here, a thousand there, 100, and the "big score" of 10,000. If lucky I'll be able to find maybe 20,000. At current levels we need over 100,000 minimally for the next 30 days, and that might not be enough. We're down to about 10,000 or so. Thousands of other companies use that bottle style and size. NONE can get it. The bottle suppliers all estimate replacement inventory the end of April. But I know what that means. It means they hope to get delivery from China by then.

    It is just assumed "don't worry, they'll be food." "Don't worry, there will still be over-the-counter drugs." "Don't worry, there will be everything to electric companies to replace blow transformers." "Don't worry, there will be plenty of ........" How does the government know that? The government doesn't know that at all. The government does not communicate with the private sector. There is no assurance empty food shelves will be filled. There is no assurance food processors will have what they need so the food and beverages are safe. Switching to other chemicals or make shift measures carries many risks as well. Masks and ventilators aren't the only thing hospitals can run out of. Here, their supplier of distilled water (true distilled water) just delivered the last 30 five gallon jugs of true zero ppm water - to us. They don't know when they'll have more. Want distilled water? Maybe WalMart has some left. Good enough for a hospital? It's not good enough for us. We tested it a couple years ago. ALMOST zero ppms. ALMOST means NOT distilled water. We are stocking up everything we can realizing everything is going to rapidly cease to be available anywhere in the country - or the free world.

    If we lose packaging ability or inventory ability, many food processors and other operations of others lose the ability to do their thing too. Some of our producing commercial customers are going into panic mode. How can they keep operating? At first, it was "YAHOO! We're making money now!' with huge sales increases. But this is becoming "how do we stay in business without what we must have?!"
    At some point production of everything will grind to such a slow pace that finding basics is going to get difficult, (toilet paper), unless we get America back to work.

  10. #40
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    Re: How long can this continue?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bok_Tukalo View Post
    I thought you were talking about deaths due to complications arising from COVID-19.

    I am not convinced that there would be as many deaths from suicide, abuse, and dependency due to economic hardship than there would be from more cases than the healthcare system could handle.

    Also, actions have been taken to alleviate the economic hardship.
    The law of unintended consequences. You can't shut an economy down and put the majority of people essentially under house arrest and then declare only good things with no harms come from this. Try to get non-life-saving critical medical care now? Like a mammogram to detect breast cancer to remove it while doing so is a 100% cure. (Men get breast cancer too). Or any other preventative exam or procedure now. They are leaving beds and procedures time open because it MIGHT be needed in the future for someone with covid-19.
    Coronavirus still poses a low risk to the general public in the US.""If you are a healthy young person, there is no reason if you want to go on a cruise ship, go on a cruise ship." "If you have tested negative for covid-19, there is no reason to wear a mask." Dr. Anthony Fauci, Director of NIAID

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