• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Culling the herd

iguanaman said:
Your laymen's opinion is far from interesting. You have no clue how deadly Covid 19 is. The experts have said it is at least 10 times more deadly than the flu and spreads far more quickly. Any idiot who can't see that is already clearly correct needs to shut up. Every age group is at risk. 20% of those hospitalized are millennials.
Click to expand...

We'll see. Talk to me at the end of June.

BTW, do you know math? If 80% of those who die from the flu VIRUS are 65 and over, what percentage does that leave for those UNDER 65? Hospitalized doesn't mean they die, either.
 
ataraxia said:
That’s why we need more funding for the NIH and virology research. There has to be a better way, and chances are Science will find it one of these days.
Click to expand...

Our pandemic response could use a bit of a touch up.
 
Paradoxical said:
Please link me where Trump cut the CDC and where Obama had masks or ventilators at the ready.
Click to expand...

Trump tried to cut the CDC multiple times and did succeed in firing all members of the Pandemic Response team and not replacing them.

Legum outlined a series of cost-cutting decisions made by the Trump administration in preceding years that had gutted the nation’s infectious disease defense infrastructure. The “pandemic response team” firing claim referred to news accounts from Spring 2018 reporting that White House officials tasked with directing a national response to a pandemic had been ousted.

Rear Adm. Timothy Ziemer abruptly departed from his post leading the global health security team on the National Security Council in May 2018 amid a reorganization of the council by then-National Security Advisor John Bolton, and Ziemer’s team was disbanded. Tom Bossert, whom the Washington Post reported “had called for a comprehensive biodefense strategy against pandemics and biological attacks,” had been fired one month prior.

It’s thus true that the Trump administration axed the executive branch team responsible for coordinating a response to a pandemic and did not replace it, eliminating Ziemer’s position and reassigning others, although Bolton was the executive at the top of the National Security Council chain of command at the time.
Click to expand...

Did Trump Administration Fire the US Pandemic Response Team?
 
Gimmesometruth said:
I recognized an obvious lie, I have no idea who you think you are fooling.
Click to expand...

You're right. I mistook you as someone who could recognize truth when he sees it. My bad.
 
Paradoxical said:
The flu is a virus and so is COVID-19.
Click to expand...
Again: So ****ing what! Ebola is a virus, and it's much more deadly than the flu.


We are at the beginning stages of this and it remains to be seen how much worse this virus is than the FLU virus.
Click to expand...
We're at the start -- and it's already much worse.

Again! We don't have annual shortages of ventilators, hospital beds and PPE. We don't have governors of every state begging the President for surgical gloves every fall. The flu doesn't send 20% of infected people to the hospital.


I guarantee you that the more densely populated cities will have a higher death rate per capita by far. For some reason, you seem to disagree with this.
Click to expand...
Hello? McFly? I explained the reasons:

• COVID-19 will spread just as far in rural areas as urban areas

• Rural areas have fewer hospital beds, fewer ventilators, fewer experienced medical staff, longer distances to travel for medical care

• Rural areas have fewer government resources and are harder to lock down

• Rural areas may peak when we've already exhausted supplies


I also guarantee that people over 65 will have a death rate at least as high as that of the flu virus of 80 plus percent.
Click to expand...
You shouldn't, because it doesn't.

Mortality rates for seasonal flu overall are around 0.1% do escalate with age -- but barely go above 1% for the oldest age groups.

COVID-19 has a mortality rate of at least 1%. It's also going to go up by age, which means the mortality rate will almost certainly be north of 5% for the oldest age groups, probably more like 10%.


Not sure why so many of you are struggling with this.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure why you have your head so thoroughly buried in the sand.

We've been telling you for weeks that it's going to get bad. Pandemics start slow and then take off like a rocket. It got bad in Italy. It got bad in Spain. It's getting bad in the US. In a matter of days, we've gone from the same number of cases as China, to twice as many cases. In two weeks, we will be nostalgic for the good ol' days when COVID-19 was "only" killing 500 people a day.

How many people have to die before you accept that COVID-19 is not just another flu?
 
Paradoxical said:
We'll see. Talk to me at the end of June.

BTW, do you know math? If 80% of those who die from the flu VIRUS are 65 and over, what percentage does that leave for those UNDER 65? Hospitalized doesn't mean they die, either.
Click to expand...
40% of those hospitalized for COVID-19 are ages 20-55.

And they're not sitting in a bed, eating ice cream and watching TV. They're in for 2 weeks or more, often hooked up to a ventilator --- if they're lucky.
 
Paradoxical said:
Obama was there for 8 years. How many masks, ventilators and test kits did he leave behind?
Click to expand...

Are you saying the solution is for government to leave even LESS behind? Or that we have less government infrastructure for coordinating and dealing with these things in the future?

The US response to this crisis has been the worst and least effective of all developed nations on the planet. Are you suggesting it’s because all those other countries have less government then we do?
 
Variant said:
Our pandemic response could use a bit of a touch up.
Click to expand...

Forget it. That may require some government initiative, planning, spearheading, funding, and organizing. Many of these folks here would rather die than have that. Literally.
 
HumblePi said:
Birth control and abortion. But then there's conservatives that will fight to abolish either of those.
Click to expand...

Don't forget sacrificing grandma & grandpa for the economy. A conservative value.
 
Visbek said:
40% of those hospitalized for COVID-19 are ages 20-55.

And they're not sitting in a bed, eating ice cream and watching TV. They're in for 2 weeks or more, often hooked up to a ventilator --- if they're lucky.
Click to expand...

Your point is?
 
ataraxia said:
Are you saying the solution is for government to leave even LESS behind? Or that we have less government infrastructure for coordinating and dealing with these things in the future?

The US response to this crisis has been the worst and least effective of all developed nations on the planet. Are you suggesting it’s because all those other countries have less government then we do?
Click to expand...

I am saying that Obama had ZERO ventilators, masks and test kits.

Hindsight is always crystal clear and the armchair quarterbacks can carp from their laptops.
 
ataraxia said:
Forget it. That may require some government initiative, planning, spearheading, funding, and organizing. Many of these folks here would rather die than have that. Literally.
Click to expand...

I don't know, it seems, almost too obvious.
 
Paradoxical said:
We'll see. Talk to me at the end of June.

BTW, do you know math? If 80% of those who die from the flu VIRUS are 65 and over, what percentage does that leave for those UNDER 65? Hospitalized doesn't mean they die, either.
Click to expand...

That is IF there is a hospital bed for them. Not only do healthy young people die if they can't get treatment from covid 19 but also accident victims, heart attack and stoke patients and anybody that need an ICU. They will all die if there is no more room for them. If that doesn't scare you nothing will. Miami's and New Orleans ICU's are nearly full and Detroit and Chicago will be next.
 
Paradoxical said:
I am saying that Obama had ZERO ventilators, masks and test kits.

Hindsight is always crystal clear and the armchair quarterbacks can carp from their laptops.
Click to expand...

There has been plenty of time to refill the national stockpile under either Obama or Trump

The need for ventilators has been known for quite some time.
Trump’s Claim That Ventilator Shortage Was “Unforeseen” Is False

So, this is a case of government simply not doing something for whatever reason.
 
Paradoxical said:
I am saying that Obama had ZERO ventilators, masks and test kits.

Hindsight is always crystal clear and the armchair quarterbacks can carp from their laptops.
Click to expand...

Isn't there a transition team when a new President takes over? Then the new President makes appointments and other administration business? When there is a new boss doesn't that boss take a look at operations and learn about it? Wouldn't that include logistics?

I would imagine that whomever is appointed to head FEMA would be in charge of the whole operation. I would imagine that a competent organization would assign the task of logistics to someone.


William Brockmann Long (born April 6, 1975) is an American emergency manager who served as the Administrator of the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA). He was appointed to the position by President Donald Trump in April 2017 and confirmed by the United States Senate in June 2017. He served until his resignation in March 2019.

The current head of FEMA is :
Pete T. Gaynor
FEMA Administrator
Peter T. Gaynor was officially confirmed by the U.S. Senate to be FEMA Administrator on January 14, 2020.
Gaynor has more than 11 years of experience in emergency management. Prior to coming to FEMA, Gaynor served as the Director of Rhode Island’s Emergency Management Agency (RIEMA) in 2015. During that time, RIEMA responded to numerous small and large disasters, including one presidentially declared disaster and at least seven pre-existing active federal disasters. Gaynor oversaw response and recovery efforts to blizzards, floods, tropical storms and public health emergencies. He also coordinated evacuations, mass care, special events, and school safety.

I am not exactly sure how Obama, who left office in January of 2017, is responsible for the supply issues of FEMA in 2020.
 
Paradoxical said:
Going into a large city or on a cruise or plane is like going into a sardine can. Chances are that if just ONE person in that sardine can has an infectious disease, most of the others will get it as well. This isn't over. We will get through THIS new virus but another will come, and another. We need to rethink large cities, condo complexes, apartments, high rises. But, we won't. We will pretend like children covering their eyes that the elephant will go away. Medical expenses for the old who don't ever want to die will crush the world.
Click to expand...

You should lead by example.
 
Paradoxical said:
In tragic times, the truth must be told for those who aren't getting it because society frowns upon showing the elephant in the room. This is why we tell someone who loses a loved one that we'll pray for him or her, as if that is going to help. Only babies should be coddled and swaddled. Adults who can't handle the truth have been babied by their parents and a society who wants them to believe falsehoods so that they don't get scared. Knowledge is power.
Click to expand...

How old are you? And please be honest.
 
grip said:
Knowledge may be power but cruel info at this time doesn't console anyone. You need a little EQ to go with that IQ or you'll end up working at DQ. ;)
Click to expand...

How do you know he already doesn't work at DQ and lives at home with mom? :lamo
 
Paradoxical said:
It's always more funding for these agencies. I think we need more efficiency and less waste. The CDC has not been very good in their handling of this and I don't think throwing money at them helps. The WHO gets millions and I don't see what they do. Public schools get billions and they keep getting worse. Government can only do so much. They cannot protect us from every thing imaginable. We expect way too much.
Click to expand...

You have no idea what you're talking about. Just about everything you just said is not only not factual it's dead wrong.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom