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Culling the herd

ataraxia said:
In modern societies, we have better ways of controlling population than war, famine and disease. We can do fine without them.

Big cities, densely populated, are where a lot of things happen in the modern world: large businesses and important academic and research centers, airports, seaports, rich cultural activities like concerts and theaters, manufacturing centers, stock exchange, sporting events, etc... big, densely populated areas are the backbone of what we know as the modern world.

Are you suggesting America give up on all that and go back to being some 18th century pre-industrial agrarian society?
Click to expand...

Birth control and abortion. But then there's conservatives that will fight to abolish either of those.
 
ataraxia said:
In modern societies, we have better ways of controlling population than war, famine and disease. We can do fine without them.

Big cities, densely populated, are where a lot of things happen in the modern world: large businesses and important academic and research centers, airports, seaports, rich cultural activities like concerts and theaters, manufacturing centers, stock exchange, sporting events, etc... big, densely populated areas are the backbone of what we know as the modern world.

Are you suggesting America give up on all that and go back to being some 18th century pre-industrial agrarian society?
Click to expand...

I am suggesting nothing of the kind. I don't know where you got that. I just pointed out the facts. The flu kills over 80% of the people over 65 who get it and this virus is about the same in that regard. I also pointed out that my research shows that primarily the most densely populated cities are the hardest hit. I further pointed out that in nature, the weakest creatures in the pack are killed first.

Anyone can read those facts and act accordingly. If and when this virus gets a vaccine or cure, another will come along in due course. Maybe 10 years, 20. Who knows? The same scenario will be played out again. Viruses don't care.
 
Paradoxical said:
Humanity has a tendency to bury it's head in the sand and not want to see the elephant in the room. Here we are freaking out over a NEW virus and trying to fool the public that the flu is not ALSO a virus except we don't add a name to it when it comes around each year. A virus by any other name is still a virus. This one appears to be deadlier and more infectious than the ones before it. How much more won't be known for several months. We have been warned decades ago that a virus could come along and wipe out millions of humans and we ignore it. A virus can mutate into something stronger than it was before. In their universe of trillions, if a vaccine or "cure' kills all but 100 of them, those 100 have developed immunity and multiply into something new and previously unseen and then it's back to the drawing board for the scientists while hundreds of thousands die.

There is a term "Ball don't lie" and we can also say "statistics don't lie" and what they don't lie about, which is what almost none want to hear or admit, is that nature will cull the herd when the herd gets too large, too close together, and too old and weak. Like a lion picking off the weakest buffalo. We have many, many more people living now that over 65 than ever before in the history of mankind. This is due to science and medicine keeping humans alive who would have otherwise died just a few decades ago because of brand new operations and procedures that have been invented and perfected. BUT.........those same people who were spared have other issues such as heart disease, diabetes, lung disease etc. and are walking around with those ticking time bombs for many more years than they otherwise would have just a few decades ago because they were saved by some operation or drug for a different disease that would have killed them. For instance, we have stents now and cholesterol lowering pills and high blood pressure medication. All of these are expected and demanded by a society that fears death and wants to live forever.

Now then, look at the stats from the CDC website for deaths by the "flu" which I have shortened for the purpose of this post:

Year deaths over 65
2010-2011 36656 25,128
2011-2012 12,447 9,374
2012-2013 42,570 35,167
2013-2014 37,930 28,414
2014-2015 51,376 44,808
2015-2016 22,705 17,458
2016-2017 32,833 32,833
2017-2018 61,099 50,903

Totals 297,616 244,805

Average per year = 37,202
Percentage of people over 65 who die equals 82%



Coronavirus Fatality Statistics By Age, Gender and Conditions – NextBigFuture.com


Patients who reported no pre-existing (“comorbid”) medical conditions had a case fatality rate of 0.9%.
Having heart, lung, and diabetes increases the rate of death by 7 to 12 times.
Coronavirus (COVID-19) is most problematic if you are over 70, a smoker and already had heart and lung problems of some kind.

The other big problem is too many people living in one area. We now have tracts where you don't have enough room to put a pool in, condo complexes, apartments and high rises as opposed to decades ago where houses were a football field or more away. Look up where the most deaths are occurring and you will find that better than 90% or more are those cities with the most population density per square mile.

NATURE is telling us we are squeezing too many people too close together and that it will take it upon itself to cull out the old and the weak. Like it or not.

As a side note, what also happens is that the death rate is somewhat inflated because all of those people in the italicized above are included and while technically the China Virus may have been the cause of death, was it really?
Click to expand...

So the solution is for a much lower population. This is something pushed by the far-left types who believe we are over-consuming and ruining the planet. I actually agree. We should be making birth control and abotions free for all. However, we will have to deal with a really big elderly population for a while.

People with pre-existing conditions are going to die more. Better hope you don't get old or sick huh. Unfortunately this will have little impact on natural selection, since most people have already passed on their genes by the time they are old and can die from covid. So this disease is here to stay until we find treatments.
 
Paradoxical said:
I am suggesting nothing of the kind. I don't know where you got that. I just pointed out the facts. The flu kills over 80% of the people over 65 who get it and this virus is about the same in that regard. I also pointed out that my research shows that primarily the most densely populated cities are the hardest hit. I further pointed out that in nature, the weakest creatures in the pack are killed first.

Anyone can read those facts and act accordingly. If and when this virus gets a vaccine or cure, another will come along in due course. Maybe 10 years, 20. Who knows? The same scenario will be played out again. Viruses don't care.
Click to expand...

That’s why we need more funding for the NIH and virology research. There has to be a better way, and chances are Science will find it one of these days.
 
Paradoxical said:
Humanity has a tendency to bury it's head in the sand...
Click to expand...
Here we go


Here we are freaking out over a NEW virus and trying to fool the public that the flu is not ALSO a virus except we don't add a name to it when it comes around each year.
Click to expand...
:roll:

COVID-19 is NOT a seasonal flu.

It's a new strain of coronavirus, like SARS or MERS.

It replicates slightly faster than the seasonal flu, but is at least 10 times more deadly.

The hospitalization rate for flu is 2%. For COVID-19, it's up to 20%. And that is ALL AGES.

The flu incubates for 1-4 days. COVID-19 incubates for 5-14 days.

We have vaccines, antivirals and treatments for the seasonal flu. Right now, all we can do for severe cases of COVID-19 is put people on ventilators, fluids, and hope Tamiflu helps.

We have the ability to deal with this -- as China clearly shows. Americans simply made some very wrong choices.

The end result is that if we do nothing, COVID-19 will overwhelm hospitals, and that will drive up the mortality rate -- for ALL age groups.


....nature will cull the herd when the herd gets too large, too close together, and too old and weak.
Click to expand...
Nope, that's bull****.

Measles replicates 6 times faster than COVID-19, has a mortality rate of 15%, and is a childhood infection. Vaccines almost completely wiped it out.

Smallpox has a mortality rate of around 30%. We completely wiped it out.

Ebola has a 50% mortality rate. That applies pretty much to all ages.


Percentage of people over 65 who die equals 82%
Click to expand...
So what?


The other big problem is too many people living in one area.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I've got a news flash for you: Rural areas will not be spared.

Here's a map of COVID-19 in the United States as of 3/30/2020:

2020-03-30_16-09-13.jpg

Density and travel patterns is causing COVID-19 to spread first in some big cities. However, it's already spreading in rural areas.

Dense cities can lock down much, much easier and faster than rural areas. China was able to enact draconian controls in a matter of days; doing so brought new cases per day in those dense cities down to zero. Doing the same in a rural area will be much, much more difficult.

Dense cities concentrate resources to manage the crisis. Rural areas have fewer hospitals, fewer ventilators, fewer trained medical staff, and are further away from patients than those in dense areas. That means that when those rural areas get hit, they're going to have much higher mortality rates than dense areas.

In theory, rural areas lagging behind big cities gives them more time to prepare. It also means that supplies may be in short supply -- or just gone -- when they get hit with the full brunt of the virus.

And of course, dense areas are easier to test than rural areas, and are currently running more tests than rural areas. I.e. rural areas are almost certainly under-reporting cases.

So tell us: If rural areas have a COVID-19 mortality rate double that of cities, are you going to suggest that "NATURE is telling us to live in big cities"...?


NATURE is telling us we are squeezing too many people too close together and that it will take it upon itself to cull out the old and the weak.
Click to expand...
Nope, again, that's total bull****, and a ludicrous misunderstanding of how this virus will spread, and whom it will harm, and whom it will kill.
 
distraff said:
So the solution is for a much lower population. This is something pushed by the far-left types who believe we are over-consuming and ruining the planet. I actually agree. We should be making birth control and abotions free for all. However, we will have to deal with a really big elderly population for a while.

People with pre-existing conditions are going to die more. Better hope you don't get old or sick huh. Unfortunately this will have little impact on natural selection, since most people have already passed on their genes by the time they are old and can die from covid. So this disease is here to stay until we find treatments.
Click to expand...

I agree with most of what you have to say. But, what we have done is to congregate many more people into less and less space than ever before. Just look up the cities around the world and make note of their population per square mile and compare that with the amount of infections and deaths and you will find that almost all the time those that are densely populated are the ones infected most. Not just because they have more people but on a per capita basis. By way of illustration this is like a cruise ship where you several thousand people in a confined space and when a virus or bacteria hits it will infect many. If you spread those same people around, the infection would far less.

For THIS virus, science will probably find a vaccine and/or a cure. That doesn't change the mathematics that density and age are the two primary factors in who lives and who dies. is this some unseen method that nature uses similar to culling the herd, so to speak? If the same thing happens in the wild why would it be any different with humans in cities?
 
ataraxia said:
That’s why we need more funding for the NIH and virology research. There has to be a better way, and chances are Science will find it one of these days.
Click to expand...

It's always more funding for these agencies. I think we need more efficiency and less waste. The CDC has not been very good in their handling of this and I don't think throwing money at them helps. The WHO gets millions and I don't see what they do. Public schools get billions and they keep getting worse. Government can only do so much. They cannot protect us from every thing imaginable. We expect way too much.
 
grip said:
The horse is your mind. I control mine while you follow behind yours, stepping in its... :shock:
Click to expand...

Quips that must me explained aren't very effective....
 
Visbek said:
Here we go



:roll:

COVID-19 is NOT a seasonal flu.

It's a new strain of coronavirus, like SARS or MERS.

It replicates slightly faster than the seasonal flu, but is at least 10 times more deadly.

The hospitalization rate for flu is 2%. For COVID-19, it's up to 20%. And that is ALL AGES.

The flu incubates for 1-4 days. COVID-19 incubates for 5-14 days.

We have vaccines, antivirals and treatments for the seasonal flu. Right now, all we can do for severe cases of COVID-19 is put people on ventilators, fluids, and hope Tamiflu helps.

We have the ability to deal with this -- as China clearly shows. Americans simply made some very wrong choices.

The end result is that if we do nothing, COVID-19 will overwhelm hospitals, and that will drive up the mortality rate -- for ALL age groups.



Nope, that's bull****.

Measles replicates 6 times faster than COVID-19, has a mortality rate of 15%, and is a childhood infection. Vaccines almost completely wiped it out.

Smallpox has a mortality rate of around 30%. We completely wiped it out.

Ebola has a 50% mortality rate. That applies pretty much to all ages.



So what?



Yeah, I've got a news flash for you: Rural areas will not be spared.

Here's a map of COVID-19 in the United States as of 3/30/2020:

View attachment 67276771

Density and travel patterns is causing COVID-19 to spread first in some big cities. However, it's already spreading in rural areas.

Dense cities can lock down much, much easier and faster than rural areas. China was able to enact draconian controls in a matter of days; doing so brought new cases per day in those dense cities down to zero. Doing the same in a rural area will be much, much more difficult.

Dense cities concentrate resources to manage the crisis. Rural areas have fewer hospitals, fewer ventilators, fewer trained medical staff, and are further away from patients than those in dense areas. That means that when those rural areas get hit, they're going to have much higher mortality rates than dense areas.

In theory, rural areas lagging behind big cities gives them more time to prepare. It also means that supplies may be in short supply -- or just gone -- when they get hit with the full brunt of the virus.

And of course, dense areas are easier to test than rural areas, and are currently running more tests than rural areas. I.e. rural areas are almost certainly under-reporting cases.

So tell us: If rural areas have a COVID-19 mortality rate double that of cities, are you going to suggest that "NATURE is telling us to live in big cities"...?



Nope, again, that's total bull****, and a ludicrous misunderstanding of how this virus will spread, and whom it will harm, and whom it will kill.
Click to expand...

Much of what you posted is conjecture and speculation and we will not know the full extent of this VIRUS (so is the Flu) until several months from now. When the infection and death rates are ot as big a what you guys are saying you will have some other excuse or will say it aint over and wait until December and the usual BS that Trump is an idiot and should have done this and should have done that and blah bah blah.

Let me know when the deaths per capita in the heavily populated cities is less than those in the less densely populated ones. You'll have some lame excuse when the figures show a huge disparity. it's like trying to say a virus on a cruise ship of 5000 would infect just as many as a city of 8000 square miles with the identical population.

Average deaths by the flu VIRUS in the United states per year is about 35,000. that is 3000 a month which would be roughly 9000 deaths to this point of the year.

Amount of deaths so far from this virus is 3,000 rounded off. Most of them in the densely populated cities in New York and New Jersey.
 
Paradoxical said:
Humanity has a tendency to bury it's head in the sand and not want to see the elephant in the room. Here we are freaking out over a NEW virus and trying to fool the public that the flu is not ALSO a virus except we don't add a name to it when it comes around each year. A virus by any other name is still a virus. This one appears to be deadlier and more infectious than the ones before it. How much more won't be known for several months. We have been warned decades ago that a virus could come along and wipe out millions of humans and we ignore it. A virus can mutate into something stronger than it was before. In their universe of trillions, if a vaccine or "cure' kills all but 100 of them, those 100 have developed immunity and multiply into something new and previously unseen and then it's back to the drawing board for the scientists while hundreds of thousands die.

There is a term "Ball don't lie" and we can also say "statistics don't lie" and what they don't lie about, which is what almost none want to hear or admit, is that nature will cull the herd when the herd gets too large, too close together, and too old and weak. Like a lion picking off the weakest buffalo. We have many, many more people living now that over 65 than ever before in the history of mankind. This is due to science and medicine keeping humans alive who would have otherwise died just a few decades ago because of brand new operations and procedures that have been invented and perfected. BUT.........those same people who were spared have other issues such as heart disease, diabetes, lung disease etc. and are walking around with those ticking time bombs for many more years than they otherwise would have just a few decades ago because they were saved by some operation or drug for a different disease that would have killed them. For instance, we have stents now and cholesterol lowering pills and high blood pressure medication. All of these are expected and demanded by a society that fears death and wants to live forever.

Now then, look at the stats from the CDC website for deaths by the "flu" which I have shortened for the purpose of this post:

Year deaths over 65
2010-2011 36656 25,128
2011-2012 12,447 9,374
2012-2013 42,570 35,167
2013-2014 37,930 28,414
2014-2015 51,376 44,808
2015-2016 22,705 17,458
2016-2017 32,833 32,833
2017-2018 61,099 50,903

Totals 297,616 244,805

Average per year = 37,202
Percentage of people over 65 who die equals 82%



Coronavirus Fatality Statistics By Age, Gender and Conditions – NextBigFuture.com


Patients who reported no pre-existing (“comorbid”) medical conditions had a case fatality rate of 0.9%.
Having heart, lung, and diabetes increases the rate of death by 7 to 12 times.
Coronavirus (COVID-19) is most problematic if you are over 70, a smoker and already had heart and lung problems of some kind.

The other big problem is too many people living in one area. We now have tracts where you don't have enough room to put a pool in, condo complexes, apartments and high rises as opposed to decades ago where houses were a football field or more away. Look up where the most deaths are occurring and you will find that better than 90% or more are those cities with the most population density per square mile.

NATURE is telling us we are squeezing too many people too close together and that it will take it upon itself to cull out the old and the weak. Like it or not.

As a side note, what also happens is that the death rate is somewhat inflated because all of those people in the italicized above are included and while technically the China Virus may have been the cause of death, was it really?
Click to expand...

Covid 19 is not a flu virus. It is in a different family than flu viruses. The Covid 19 death rate of .9% in those with no preconditions is 10 times the mortality rate of the flu which is .01% of all that get it. We will beat it or lose millions needlessly. Do you think the black death was also "culling the herd" when it killed 1/3 of Europe?

Coronavirus vs. Flu: Symptom Differences, More
 
Paradoxical said:
I agree with most of what you have to say. But, what we have done is to congregate many more people into less and less space than ever before. Just look up the cities around the world and make note of their population per square mile and compare that with the amount of infections and deaths and you will find that almost all the time those that are densely populated are the ones infected most. Not just because they have more people but on a per capita basis. By way of illustration this is like a cruise ship where you several thousand people in a confined space and when a virus or bacteria hits it will infect many. If you spread those same people around, the infection would far less.

For THIS virus, science will probably find a vaccine and/or a cure. That doesn't change the mathematics that density and age are the two primary factors in who lives and who dies. is this some unseen method that nature uses similar to culling the herd, so to speak? If the same thing happens in the wild why would it be any different with humans in cities?
Click to expand...

If you insist on calling this "nature" there is a warning in this virus for humans. Don't mess with wild animals or their habitat. Leave them be or risk a multitude of virus's just waiting to find a new host. Our numbers make humans the ultimate host for viruses but they need our help to cross over. Do you hear the warning? Remember it next time you poo poo efforts to protect wild animals and their habitats.
 
Paradoxical said:
It's always more funding for these agencies. I think we need more efficiency and less waste. The CDC has not been very good in their handling of this and I don't think throwing money at them helps. The WHO gets millions and I don't see what they do. Public schools get billions and they keep getting worse. Government can only do so much. They cannot protect us from every thing imaginable. We expect way too much.
Click to expand...

The CDC and other public agencies have done the best they could with a federal government infrastructure that’s been gutted. The reason the United States is dead last among all develop nations in performance against this coronavirus is that this is the results of decades of trashing the government and public agencies. The free market and an A.R. 15 fix everything, don’t they? The reason every other developed nation on the planet did better is because they don’t have this dysfunctional neurosis about their government.
 
Paradoxical said:
It's always more funding for these agencies. I think we need more efficiency and less waste. The CDC has not been very good in their handling of this and I don't think throwing money at them helps. The WHO gets millions and I don't see what they do. Public schools get billions and they keep getting worse. Government can only do so much. They cannot protect us from every thing imaginable. We expect way too much.
Click to expand...

You seem to underestimate what we can do.
 
Paradoxical said:
Much of what you posted is conjecture and speculation...
Click to expand...
No, actually, my posts are based on facts. This is a new virus, and we have much to learn, but tracking and understanding pandemics is not new. Some of those facts vary -- e.g. if we develop antivirals, mortality rate will drop. Other aspects, like hospitalization rates, R0, hospital capacity etc are reasonably solid.


and we will not know the full extent of this VIRUS (so is the Flu)
Click to expand...
:roll:

NO ONE denies that both influenza and COVID-19 are viruses. I have no idea why you think that matters, because different viruses have different replication, hospitalization and mortality rates.

Ebola is a virus. It has a 50% mortality rate.
Marburg is a virus. It reached 80% mortality rate in the Congo.
Smallpox is a virus. Its fatality rate was 90%.

The idea that "COVID-19 is a virus, and all viruses are like the flu, therefore COVID-19 is no more serious than the flu" is completely ludicrous.

It's equally ludicrous that you tout this as NATURE!!! basically wiping out people over 65, and it's not serious.


When the infection and death rates are ot as big a what you guys are saying you will have some other excuse or will say it aint over and wait until December and the usual BS that Trump is an idiot and should have done this and should have done that and blah bah blah.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I've got a news flash for you: The seasonal flu doesn't overwhelm multiple hospitals in multiple major cities around the world every year. That's already happening, and COVID-19 is just getting started.

Wake up. This is not like the seasonal flu.


Let me know when the deaths per capita in the heavily populated cities is less than those in the less densely populated ones.
Click to expand...
Okay. It won't be long.

It's already spreading faster in rural states, by the way.
The Coronavirus Isn’t Just A Blue State Problem | FiveThirtyEight


it's like trying to say a virus on a cruise ship of 5000 would infect just as many as a city of 8000 square miles with the identical population.
Click to expand...
:roll:

You're suggesting spreading 5000 people across a "city" the size of New Jersey. No one should be surprised that doesn't describe most rural areas in the US. That's a population density of 0.625 people per square mile; 99.4% of US zip codes have a higher population density than that.

Needless to say, a place like that won't have a Costco on every corner. They need supplies from elsewhere, which is how the virus gets there; people need a common place to shop and get services, which puts them in contact with one another, which is how it spreads.

The virus will almost certainly spread faster on the cruise ship -- but mortality will depend entirely on medical resources available to the different scenarios. If the cruise ship has 1000 ventilators, and the "city" has 10, then the cruise ship will have a significantly lower mortality rate.

Oh, it would also be a lot easier to lock down a cruise ship than a barely populated city the size of New Jersey. It will be easier to get supplies there; distribute critical information, and so on.


Average deaths by the flu VIRUS in the United states per year is about 35,000. that is 3000 a month which would be roughly 9000 deaths to this point of the year.

Amount of deaths so far from this virus is 3,000 rounded off. Most of them in the densely populated cities in New York and New Jersey.
Click to expand...
zomg.... Such rank nonsense. This late in the game, your ignorance is inexcusable.

COVID-19 deaths in the US are doubling roughly every 2 days. That doesn't happen with the seasonal flu.

COVID-19 is probably going to kill anywhere from 100,000 to 200,000 people this year. And that's with all sorts of social distancing and lockdowns.

When was the last time the seasonal flu overwhelmed nearly every hospital in Italy? When was the last time hospitals in Seattle, Atlanta, and New York were overwhelmed by the flu? When was the last time you heard about a nationwide shortage of ventilators, hospital beds, and personal protective equipment?

How many people have to die before you realize this is is serious?
 
iguanaman said:
Covid 19 is not a flu virus. It is in a different family than flu viruses. The Covid 19 death rate of .9% in those with no preconditions is 10 times the mortality rate of the flu which is .01% of all that get it. We will beat it or lose millions needlessly. Do you think the black death was also "culling the herd" when it killed 1/3 of Europe?

Coronavirus vs. Flu: Symptom Differences, More
Click to expand...

The evidence I presented speaks for itself. The previous plagues have nothing to do with right now as medicine has advanced by leaps and bounds. Re: the flu versus a virus, the flu is a virus. If you guys want to say it's a different virus, I don't much care.
 
iguanaman said:
If you insist on calling this "nature" there is a warning in this virus for humans. Don't mess with wild animals or their habitat. Leave them be or risk a multitude of virus's just waiting to find a new host. Our numbers make humans the ultimate host for viruses but they need our help to cross over. Do you hear the warning? Remember it next time you poo poo efforts to protect wild animals and their habitats.
Click to expand...

Unless you are a creationist, you would admit that we are just evolved animals and we still have animal traits. One of those is that we are herd animals and run in packs. This is demonstrated daily here and in almost every post. One side stays in the herd who hates Trump and the other stays in the herd that likes Trump. If you're Christian, you would stay in the christian herd and f you aren't, you would be in the herd of non believers. This is for your own protection from ridicule, ostracizing embarrassment and banning from your herd. If you stray, you would pay the consequences. The same thing happens in the jungle where animals that are preyed on by larger animals stay close together for protection and if one runs that is a single for all of them to, but oftentimes a weaker or older one will be picked off.

We herd into large cities and small condos, houses or apartments because it is convenient. Someone here challenged my culling the herd by bringing up the black plague that killed a third of the populace. that's irrelevant and doesn't negate what the facts are showing. While a close nit herd does offer protection and convenience, it also exposes the herd to being infected due to being packed together.
 
ataraxia said:
The CDC and other public agencies have done the best they could with a federal government infrastructure that’s been gutted. The reason the United States is dead last among all develop nations in performance against this coronavirus is that this is the results of decades of trashing the government and public agencies. The free market and an A.R. 15 fix everything, don’t they? The reason every other developed nation on the planet did better is because they don’t have this dysfunctional neurosis about their government.
Click to expand...

Obama was there for 8 years. How many masks, ventilators and test kits did he leave behind?
 
Visbek said:
No, actually, my posts are based on facts. This is a new virus, and we have much to learn, but tracking and understanding pandemics is not new. Some of those facts vary -- e.g. if we develop antivirals, mortality rate will drop. Other aspects, like hospitalization rates, R0, hospital capacity etc are reasonably solid.



:roll:

NO ONE denies that both influenza and COVID-19 are viruses. I have no idea why you think that matters, because different viruses have different replication, hospitalization and mortality rates.

Ebola is a virus. It has a 50% mortality rate.
Marburg is a virus. It reached 80% mortality rate in the Congo.
Smallpox is a virus. Its fatality rate was 90%.

The idea that "COVID-19 is a virus, and all viruses are like the flu, therefore COVID-19 is no more serious than the flu" is completely ludicrous.

It's equally ludicrous that you tout this as NATURE!!! basically wiping out people over 65, and it's not serious.



Yeah, I've got a news flash for you: The seasonal flu doesn't overwhelm multiple hospitals in multiple major cities around the world every year. That's already happening, and COVID-19 is just getting started.

Wake up. This is not like the seasonal flu.



Okay. It won't be long.

It's already spreading faster in rural states, by the way.
The Coronavirus Isn’t Just A Blue State Problem | FiveThirtyEight



:roll:

You're suggesting spreading 5000 people across a "city" the size of New Jersey. No one should be surprised that doesn't describe most rural areas in the US. That's a population density of 0.625 people per square mile; 99.4% of US zip codes have a higher population density than that.

Needless to say, a place like that won't have a Costco on every corner. They need supplies from elsewhere, which is how the virus gets there; people need a common place to shop and get services, which puts them in contact with one another, which is how it spreads.

The virus will almost certainly spread faster on the cruise ship -- but mortality will depend entirely on medical resources available to the different scenarios. If the cruise ship has 1000 ventilators, and the "city" has 10, then the cruise ship will have a significantly lower mortality rate.

Oh, it would also be a lot easier to lock down a cruise ship than a barely populated city the size of New Jersey. It will be easier to get supplies there; distribute critical information, and so on.



zomg.... Such rank nonsense. This late in the game, your ignorance is inexcusable.

COVID-19 deaths in the US are doubling roughly every 2 days. That doesn't happen with the seasonal flu.

COVID-19 is probably going to kill anywhere from 100,000 to 200,000 people this year. And that's with all sorts of social distancing and lockdowns.

When was the last time the seasonal flu overwhelmed nearly every hospital in Italy? When was the last time hospitals in Seattle, Atlanta, and New York were overwhelmed by the flu? When was the last time you heard about a nationwide shortage of ventilators, hospital beds, and personal protective equipment?

How many people have to die before you realize this is is serious?
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I've stated my position more than once and to recap.

The flu is a virus and so is COVID-19. We are at the beginning stages of this and it remains to be seen how much worse this virus is than the FLU virus.

I guarantee you that the more densely populated cities will have a higher death rate per capita by far. For some reason, you seem to disagree with this.

I also guarantee that people over 65 will have a death rate at least as high as that of the flu virus of 80 plus percent. Those who are in that age range should avoid going places and keep their distance.

Not sure why so many of you are struggling with this.
 
Paradoxical said:
Obama was there for 8 years. How many masks, ventilators and test kits did he leave behind?
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He left behind a robust CDC, a pandemic response team and teams of investigators all over the world to monitor possible pandemics. Trump cut them all and left us defenseless.
 
Paradoxical said:
I've stated my position more than once and to recap.

The flu is a virus and so is COVID-19. We are at the beginning stages of this and it remains to be seen how much worse this virus is than the FLU virus.

I guarantee you that the more densely populated cities will have a higher death rate per capita by far. For some reason, you seem to disagree with this.

I also guarantee that people over 65 will have a death rate at least as high as that of the flu virus of 80 plus percent. Those who are in that age range should avoid going places and keep their distance.

Not sure why so many of you are struggling with this.
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Your laymen's opinion is far from interesting. You have no clue how deadly Covid 19 is. The experts have said it is at least 10 times more deadly than the flu and spreads far more quickly. Any idiot who can't see that is already clearly correct needs to shut up. Every age group is at risk. 20% of those hospitalized are millennials.
 
iguanaman said:
He left behind a robust CDC, a pandemic response team and teams of investigators all over the world to monitor possible pandemics. Trump cut them all and left us defenseless.
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Please link me where Trump cut the CDC and where Obama had masks or ventilators at the ready.
 
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