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Trump announces 30-day extension of coronavirus guidelines

Rexedgar said:
You post a simple answer that makes it appear that all it takes is for there to be stores and stockers to make groceries to appear. If you are in the business, you know that there is a whole chain of events/people that need to be on the job for the shelves to have products. Many people at risk in the chain and all it takes is a few links to not show up for there to be major disruptions......
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If that's what you wanted to talk about, then why didn't you say so? I'm well aware of issues with the chain of supply. We're currently experiencing all kinds of product shortages and delays. But that has not and will not stop us from continuing to do our job of preventing America from starving to death. The same job which we have always done, for the same low pay.

So is America finally ready to fairly reward their most essential employees? We'll see.
 
Hamish Howl said:
We have never once gained herd immunity without vaccinations. It would require a 96% infection rate.

I know this one of the official talking points, but it's wrong.
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In determining what level of herd immunity is necessary to stop the spread of infection we need to know the R0 (or reproductive ratio) this is the number of people that are likely to be infected by a single case.

Estimates of the R0 for COVID-19 vary somewhat but are in the order 2.0 to 3.0. Assuming that R0=3 then after about 66% of the population becomes infected then the virus will die out in the population.
 
jpn said:
Well that was easy. I went looking for a plan for how we're going to reopen our society and economy. Here's one from the American Enterprise Institute, a libertarian-leaning think-tank:

National coronavirus response: A road map to reopening | American Enterprise Institute - AEI

Basically we'll have to wait until the health officials tell us the necessary steps have been taken.
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"the trigger for a move to Phase II should be when a state reports a sustained reduction in cases for at least 14 days (i.e., one incubation period); and local hospitals are safely able to treat all patients requiring hospitalization without resorting to crisis standards of care4; and the capacity exists in the state to test all people with COVID-19 symptoms, along with state capacity to conduct active monitoring of all confirmed cases and their contacts"

That seems reasonable to me. Im just not sure we have that kind of time.
 
Captain Adverse said:
Perhaps. But we can't stay on lock-down forever.

People need to earn a living. Food has to be harvested and processed. Businesses have to get back to business. Trade has to start again.

It all might have to come down to "herd immunity."

At some point, risk or no risk, we need to get back to as normal as we can achieve under the circumstances.
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Food harvesting and processing never stopped.
 
Fletch said:
I think Easter was a reasonable goal when he said it and its still two weeks off.
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I guess what you and Trump have in common is a belief that you know more than epidemiologists who have spent their whole lives studying this kind of thing.

Those of us who know we don't know more than epidemiologists and so were listening to what they were saying, knew immediately that Easter was a ridiculous, laughable target.

If you can't understand why so many of us have contempt for Trump, this is a good opportunity to gain some insight.

He's a fool. He says foolish things in the middle of a national crisis. He's emotional, not rational.
 
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Captain Adverse said:
Perhaps. But we can't stay on lock-down forever.

People need to earn a living. Food has to be harvested and processed. Businesses have to get back to business. Trade has to start again.

It all might have to come down to "herd immunity."

At some point, risk or no risk, we need to get back to as normal as we can achieve under the circumstances.
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Suggestion: Stop Panicing !!!!


Better Now?
 
jpn said:
I guess what you and Trump have in common is a belief that you know more than epidemiologists who have spent their whole lives studying this kind of thing.

Those of us who know we don't know more than epidemiologists and so were listening to what they were saying, knew immediately that Easter was a ridiculous, laughable target.

If you can't understand why so many of us have contempt for Trump, this is a good opportunity to gain some insight.
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I explained my reasoning in the second part of my post that you didnt bother to quote. And yes, Trump haters like you doing things like that is why we hold you in contempt. Try honest debate. If you cant do that, Im not sure why you are here.
 
Fletch said:
I explained my reasoning in the second part of my post that you didnt bother to quote. And yes, Trump haters like you doing things like that is why we hold you in contempt. Try honest debate. If you cant do that, Im not sure why you are here.
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Sorry if you thought my shortening your response to only the relevant portion was dishonest. You also wrote: "4 more weeks of economic shutdown might be too much. 3.3 million filed for unemployment last week and that record number will likely be smashed this week. We could have 15-20 million unemployed by the end of Apri."

I didn't bother to include it in your quote because it was so totally beside the point. IMHO. My point was that the experts were all saying end of May, early June, not Easter. The reasons you were disagreeing with the experts were immaterial because you aren't an expert.

Unless you were thinking that economic concerns were going to overwhelm concerns for life? Really?

Anyhoo, shoot, an opportunity for you to better understand liberals lost.
 
jpn said:
Sorry if you thought my shortening your response to only the relevant portion was dishonest. You wrote: "4 more weeks of economic shutdown might be too much. 3.3 million filed for unemployment last week and that record number will likely be smashed this week. We could have 15-20 million unemployed by the end of Apri."

I didn't bother to include it in your quote because it was so totally beside the point. My point was that the experts were all saying end of May, early June, not Easter. The reasons you were disagreeing with the experts were immaterial because you aren't an expert.

Unless you were thinking that economic concerns were going to overwhelm concerns for life? Really?
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I never claimed to disagree with 'the experts' thats just you continuing to lie and misrepresent what I said. And yes, at some point economic concerns will overwhelm concern for this virus. That is a fact that you havent yet wrapped your mind around, but its coming

And YOUR point is irrelevant since I wasnt talking to you
 
Crosscheck said:
My son who is a QA for a major food production plant was issued a badge identifying him employed in an Essential Business to allow him to be on the road at this time.
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That's really a thing?
 
grip said:
In determining what level of herd immunity is necessary to stop the spread of infection we need to know the R0 (or reproductive ratio) this is the number of people that are likely to be infected by a single case.

Estimates of the R0 for COVID-19 vary somewhat but are in the order 2.0 to 3.0. Assuming that R0=3 then after about 66% of the population becomes infected then the virus will die out in the population.
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The larger the R0 number, the more people need to be immune to obtain herd immunity. Smallpox had an R0 of 3.5, which required a bare minimum of 80% immunity.
 
Hamish Howl said:
The larger the R0 number, the more people need to be immune to obtain herd immunity. Smallpox had an R0 of 3.5, which required a bare minimum of 80% immunity.
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Your 96% infection rate was off. And an RO of 2.0 is about 50%. So?
 
Fletch said:
Hardly. Schools were scheduled to be closed through April 3. That just changed that too. But since you are so bright, well-informed and the first to know, please give me that specific date when these guidelines will expire and that date when you expect to see commerce begin again. Thanks.
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Schools may very well transition to online homeschooling. Sucks for the lunch ladies, but them are the breaks.
 
JMaximus said:
That's really a thing?
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In the Puget Sound area of Washington State. He knew of a girl who got pulled over by police and questioned why she was out on the road.
 
Trump is the Deep State.




Idiots.
 
Hamish Howl said:
You said "assuming an R0 rate of 3".

Which is it?
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Is the cheese slipping off your cracker? In my original statement, I said about 2.0 to 3.0. You said herd immunity was never achieved without vaccines. There was no vaccine for the Spanish Flu.
 
Captain Adverse said:
Perhaps. But we can't stay on lock-down forever.

People need to earn a living. Food has to be harvested and processed. Businesses have to get back to business. Trade has to start again.

It all might have to come down to "herd immunity."

At some point, risk or no risk, we need to get back to as normal as we can achieve under the circumstances.
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What a wacko point of view you have. There is no way we can depend on herd immunity to stop the virus that would mean millions of deaths and far more economic damage. We will suppress the spread and keep our hospitals open while we work on treatment and a vaccine. It won't take forever either. when the numbers come down we can start to open things up, not before. So keep an eye on those numbers.
 
i think my favorite part of this situation (if there is one) is that Trump is making fools out of all the people that said this was nothing early on. and himself.




idiots.

cultists.

dumb asses.



basically people who aren't very smart and are without any sense of humanity. the opposite of Christ.
 
Crosscheck said:
Food production is continuing. My son who is a QA for a major food production plant was issued a badge identifying him employed in an Essential Business to allow him to be on the road at this time.

The plant is working overtime at this point.

Yes, we need to get back to normal but for now lets trust the epidemiologists.
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Which epidemiologist? Neil Ferguson who said we would have 500,000 deaths in the UK and2.2 million in the USA. That guy? Who has now altered his prediction but it was hardly reported by the news media, (I guess it wasn't important enough). The problem is not as much Ferguson as it is poor reporting by the media. Ferguson did predict high numbers and later make a clarification in which he said those numbers where if nothing got done. The dramatic difference when we "do something" was almost totally ignored by the media, Why? Because 500,000 is much more dramatice than 20,000 and predicting 2.2 million in the USA is a much bigger club to hit Trump over the head than say 100,000, which at this point we are not near at all. The fake news at it again during a time when they should be careful to get the facts correct and report correctly and not try to sell papers or rev up anti Trump sentiment.
 
Fletch said:
I think Easter was a reasonable goal when he said it and its still two weeks off. 4 more weeks of economic shutdown might be too much. 3.3 million filed for unemployment last week and that record number will likely be smashed this week. We could have 15-20 million unemployed by the end of April
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Easter was oribably never really doable -unless you just decided that it didn't matter what the reality was. If we're not careful, 200,000 coukd die.

Coronavirus deaths in US: 200,000 could die, researchers predict - Business Insider

I'm not saying this is nevessarily going to hapoen, but if we just circle s date on the calendar and say " that's it, **** it" it could be. Is 200,000 dead acceptable to avoid unemployment?

If, as you say, 20 million unemployed by the end of April, well Trump just extended it to the end of April. So maybe he understands the situation. I don't know


Which members of your family are you willing to kill to ensure Trump's reelection?
 
JMaximus said:
That's really a thing?
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You bet it is. As an "essential" worker, I have a letter in my car saying that. A friend of mine is a UPS driver, and he has paperwork tobget him through. Scary times
 
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