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France reverses ban on hydroxychloroquine: it's working

Jack Hays said:
Sorry, didn't vote for Trump in 2016 and don't plan to vote for him in 2020.
US statistics are in line with or more favorable than those of most of our European partners. I really don't care where Canadians live; population density is what separates Canada from the US and comparable European states.
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Oh, absolutely, the difference in results between Canada and the US has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with a difference in "healthcare system effectiveness", or a difference in "governmental system effectiveness", or a synergy between "healthcare system effectiveness" AND "governmental system effectiveness", because the one thing that simply cannot be disputed (assuming that one is both rational and prepared to actually look at the data) is that you believe that the US has a MUCH HIGHER OVERALL EFFECTIVENESS IN ITS RESPONSE to COVID-19 than Canada has.
 
Jack Hays said:
It's not 1957, hydroxychloroquine has been in use for decades, and its side effects are well-known.
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The date truly is irrelevant as well as wrong (it was not until the early 60s that companies applied for approval in the U.S. and the FDA's insistence on further drug trials began before the devastating teratogenic effects were recognized in Europe and Canada). Also irrelevant is knowing the side effects since there is no experience with this drug in the treatment of covid19 disease which might reveal new side effects not previously seen with other usage. But thanks for revealing that your medical knowledge is on par with your climate knowledge which is less than 0 in both cases. And also thanks for the comic relief I knew you would provide.
 
TU Curmudgeon said:
Oh, absolutely, the difference in results between Canada and the US has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with a difference in "healthcare system effectiveness", or a difference in "governmental system effectiveness", or a synergy between "healthcare system effectiveness" AND "governmental system effectiveness", because the one thing that simply cannot be disputed (assuming that one is both rational and prepared to actually look at the data) is that you believe that the US has a MUCH HIGHER OVERALL EFFECTIVENESS IN ITS RESPONSE to COVID-19 than Canada has.
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You're debating with yourself again.
 
digitusmedius said:
The date truly is irrelevant as well as wrong (it was not until the early 60s that companies applied for approval in the U.S. and the FDA's insistence on further drug trials began before the devastating teratogenic effects were recognized in Europe and Canada). Also irrelevant is knowing the side effects since there is no experience with this drug in the treatment of covid19 disease which might reveal new side effects not previously seen with other usage. But thanks for revealing that your medical knowledge is on par with your climate knowledge which is less than 0 in both cases. And also thanks for the comic relief I knew you would provide.
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You need to brush up on your history.


[h=3]Thalidomide - Wikipedia[/h]en.wikipedia.org › wiki › Thalidomide
wzhDIC9UYsU1MAAAAASUVORK5CYII=






Thalidomide, sold under the brand name Thalomid among others, is a medication used to treat a number of cancers including multiple myeloma, ...
 
TU Curmudgeon said:
Which, of course, means that the 367,719 reported US cases, and the 10,943 reported US deaths, simply didn't happen - right?
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What? No. I am unsure how you got there from what I said.
 
Hamish Howl said:
What? No. I am unsure how you got there from what I said.
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I got there from the posts (not necessarily yours) of those who are taking the position "The Chinese are lying, the media is lying, the data is all false, and the US is doing better than any other country in dealing with COVID-19.".

Admittedly they do buttress their position by eliminating every country that has a smaller population than the US from consideration, eliminating every country that isn't in Europe from consideration, and eliminating China from consideration because China is lying. That restricts the number of countries in the class to which the US is to be compared to one and, from that fact, it is transparently obvious that no country is doing better than the US in dealing with COVID-19,

PS - I have no doubt that one of those people will "quote" me as saying "-That restricts the number of countries in the class to which the US is to be compared to one and, from that fact,- it is transparently obvious that no country is doing better than the US in dealing with COVID-19", WITHOUT the inclusion of the struck out part.
 
TU Curmudgeon said:
I got there from the posts (not necessarily yours) of those who are taking the position "The Chinese are lying, the media is lying, the data is all false, and the US is doing better than any other country in dealing with COVID-19.".

Admittedly they do buttress their position by eliminating every country that has a smaller population than the US from consideration, eliminating every country that isn't in Europe from consideration, and eliminating China from consideration because China is lying. That restricts the number of countries in the class to which the US is to be compared to one and, from that fact, it is transparently obvious that no country is doing better than the US in dealing with COVID-19,

PS - I have no doubt that one of those people will "quote" me as saying "-That restricts the number of countries in the class to which the US is to be compared to one and, from that fact,- it is transparently obvious that no country is doing better than the US in dealing with COVID-19", WITHOUT the inclusion of the struck out part.
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Hamish Howl said:
Quote me on that, please.
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He's debating with himself. No one takes the position he's describing.
 
digitusmedius said:
Thanks for coming forward so eagerly to reveal your total ignorance of drug efficacy/safety testing. The fact that hydroxychloroquine has been around and used FOR OTHER DISEASES for a long time does in no way mean that it has been shown to be effective and safe for covid-19. The few instances of success have been done without any controls and on very small numbers of cases and are therefore meaningless. But this is what happens when The Cult of Dirtbag actually believe what their Dear PoS blurts out.
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Again you simply do not listen well. You are assuming claims I did not make. Which part of "Covid19 has only been known to be around since late December or early January" did you not understand? I made no claims further then that it's an established FDA approved medication that has been around for at least 30 years. I was responding to the idiotic comparison to the drug "Thalidomide" which was rushed into the market with relatively little testing. As for your last statement, your TDS destroys any objectivity on your part. I imagine that if Obama or Bernie Sanders had suggested trying hydroxychloroquine on covid 19 patients, you would be singing it's praises. You are about little more then "orange man bad"
 
Jack Hays said:
It's not 1957, hydroxychloroquine has been in use for decades, and its side effects are well-known.
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Yep. It is commonly prescribed in the US for other conditions and most of the side effects are from long term use.
 
ObamacareFail said:
Again you simply do not listen well. You are assuming claims I did not make. Which part of "Covid19 has only been known to be around since late December or early January" did you not understand? I made no claims further then that it's an established FDA approved medication that has been around for at least 30 years. I was responding to the idiotic comparison to the drug "Thalidomide" which was rushed into the market with relatively little testing. As for your last statement, your TDS destroys any objectivity on your part. I imagine that if Obama or Bernie Sanders had suggested trying hydroxychloroquine on covid 19 patients, you would be singing it's praises. You are about little more then "orange man bad"
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Please see the thread

TU Curmudgeon said:
From ABC News

Intelligence report warned of coronavirus crisis as early as November

As far back as late November, U.S. intelligence officials were warning that a contagion was sweeping through China’s Wuhan region, changing the patterns of life and business and posing a threat to the population, according to four sources briefed on the secret reporting.

Concerns about what is now known to be the novel coronavirus pandemic were detailed in a November intelligence report by the military's National Center for Medical Intelligence (NCMI), according to two officials familiar with the document’s contents.

The report was the result of analysis of wire and computer intercepts, coupled with satellite images. It raised alarms because an out-of-control disease would pose a serious threat to U.S. forces in Asia -- forces that depend on the NCMI’s work. And it paints a picture of an American government that could have ramped up mitigation and containment efforts far earlier to prepare for a crisis poised to come home.

"Analysts concluded it could be a cataclysmic event," one of the sources said of the NCMI’s report. "It was then briefed multiple times to" the Defense Intelligence Agency, the Pentagon’s Joint Staff and the White House. Wednesday night, the Pentagon issued a statement denying the "product/assessment" existed.

COMMENT:-

The cries of "What did he know and when did he know it?" can be restarted.
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ObamacareFail said:
Again you simply do not listen well. You are assuming claims I did not make. Which part of "Covid19 has only been known to be around since late December or early January" did you not understand? I made no claims further then that it's an established FDA approved medication that has been around for at least 30 years. I was responding to the idiotic comparison to the drug "Thalidomide" which was rushed into the market with relatively little testing. As for your last statement, your TDS destroys any objectivity on your part. I imagine that if Obama or Bernie Sanders had suggested trying hydroxychloroquine on covid 19 patients, you would be singing it's praises. You are about little more then "orange man bad"
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The difficulty of dealing with the Cult of Dirtbag is your fundamental and profound ignorance (or is it lying?) about, well, everything. Our intel services were aware of the the problem in November 2019 (US intelligence agencies started tracking coronavirus outbreak in China as early as November - CNNPolitics). Then there's you abysmal ignorance about and attempt deflections from the actual issue of determining the safety of a drug for a particular disease or condition. From that standpoint the comparison between a new drug, Thalidomide, and pushing the idea of using an old drug for an entirely new disease is entirely is entirely apt. It's comparable to just what Europe did with Thalidomide--not doing thorough testing before approval. Neither you nor I and particular not your dear Dirtbag moron of a "pr*sident" have any idea of what the possible fatally deleterious consequences of putting massive numbers of Covid19 patients on a drug that has a very narrow range of dosage safety will be. You and your Dear Dirtbag are so desperate to do anything to to salvage his horrible handling of this pandemic that you're more than willing to put thousands of people at further risk. It's disgusting.
 
digitusmedius said:
The difficulty of dealing with the Cult of Dirtbag is your fundamental and profound ignorance (or is it lying?) about, well, everything. Our intel services were aware of the the problem in November 2019 (US intelligence agencies started tracking coronavirus outbreak in China as early as November - CNNPolitics). Then there's you abysmal ignorance about and attempt deflections from the actual issue of determining the safety of a drug for a particular disease or condition. From that standpoint the comparison between a new drug, Thalidomide, and pushing the idea of using an old drug for an entirely new disease is entirely is entirely apt. It's comparable to just what Europe did with Thalidomide--not doing thorough testing before approval. Neither you nor I and particular not your dear Dirtbag moron of a "pr*sident" have any idea of what the possible fatally deleterious consequences of putting massive numbers of Covid19 patients on a drug that has a very narrow range of dosage safety will be. You and your Dear Dirtbag are so desperate to do anything to to salvage his horrible handling of this pandemic that you're more than willing to put thousands of people at further risk. It's disgusting.
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Sorry...when you begin with the TDS spittle spewing, I get too bored to read the rest. Try putting your TDS rants at the end.
 
digitusmedius said:
The difficulty of dealing with the Cult of Dirtbag is your fundamental and profound ignorance (or is it lying?) about, well, everything. Our intel services were aware of the the problem in November 2019 (US intelligence agencies started tracking coronavirus outbreak in China as early as November - CNNPolitics). Then there's you abysmal ignorance about and attempt deflections from the actual issue of determining the safety of a drug for a particular disease or condition. From that standpoint the comparison between a new drug, Thalidomide, and pushing the idea of using an old drug for an entirely new disease is entirely is entirely apt. It's comparable to just what Europe did with Thalidomide--not doing thorough testing before approval. Neither you nor I and particular not your dear Dirtbag moron of a "pr*sident" have any idea of what the possible fatally deleterious consequences of putting massive numbers of Covid19 patients on a drug that has a very narrow range of dosage safety will be. You and your Dear Dirtbag are so desperate to do anything to to salvage his horrible handling of this pandemic that you're more than willing to put thousands of people at further risk. It's disgusting.
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The latest version of the currently operative, officially sanctioned, "Team Trump" approved, White House issued, truth-of-the-day, which was recently announced by Winston Smith over at The Federal Legal And Civil Knowledge Bureau is that the so-called "report" does not exist and that any so-called "copies" of the so-called "report" are fakes being circulated by treasonous traitors.
 
ObamacareFail said:
Sorry...when you begin with the TDS spittle spewing, I get too bored to read the rest. Try putting your TDS rants at the end.
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Looks like you're wearing the spittle now. The French study was too small and poorly set up. Now we've learned that another study had to be cancelled due to hydroxychloroquine cardiac toxicity. This is what happens when morons like Your Dear Dirtbag try to play doctor.

Coronavirus drug chloroquine – touted by Trump – has test halted
 
ObamacareFail said:
Sorry...when you begin with the TDS spittle spewing, I get too bored to read the rest. Try putting your TDS rants at the end.
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I don't think any poster here could have a more appropriate name as Americans lose their jobs and need healthcare.

Where is Trumpcare?
 
CaughtInThe said:
I don't think any poster here could have a more appropriate name as Americans lose their jobs and need healthcare.

Where is Trumpcare?
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O think that the actual term you are looking for is "Trumpdon'tcare".
 
digitusmedius said:
Looks like you're wearing the spittle now. The French study was too small and poorly set up. Now we've learned that another study had to be cancelled due to hydroxychloroquine cardiac toxicity. This is what happens when morons like Your Dear Dirtbag try to play doctor.

Coronavirus drug chloroquine – touted by Trump – has test halted
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I have it directly from Winston Smith (the Acting Director of The Federal Legal And Civil Knowledge Bureau which publishes The Current Response And Position Bulletin) that Mr. Trump's position (as it has always been) is that

Hydroxychloroquine is a very dangerous drug that is so unlikely to be useful in the prevention/treatment/cure of COVID-19 that not a dime should be wasted on any research into it and that absolutely no one (other than the Rheumatoid Arthritis sufferers who actually need small doses of it in order to function) should even consider taking it.
​

Considering the source, you can take that plus $3.99 and buy a Big Mac.
 
digitusmedius said:
This is it.
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Mr. Trump is an American just like every other American.

Mr. Trump has the best and most affordable healthcare insurance package in the world.

<SARC>THEREFORE

All Americans have the best and most affordable healthcare insurance package in the world.</SARC>
 
TU Curmudgeon said:
Mr. Trump is an American just like every other American.

Mr. Trump has the best and most affordable healthcare insurance package in the world.

<SARC>THEREFORE

All Americans have the best and most affordable healthcare insurance package in the world.</SARC>
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One of the very few actual HCQ randomized controlled trials done on 150 hospitalized covid-19 patients was just reported out of China showing no difference in outcome between treated and control cohorts. But there was a significant rate of serious side effects in the treated group v controls:
The overall 28-day negative conversion rate of SARS-CoV-2, which was the primary endpoint, was similar in the two 75-patient treatment groups. The Kaplan-Meier estimate for negative conversion rate was 85.4% in the HCQ plus standard of care (SOC) arm, vs 81.3% in the SOC-only group (P = .341). Negative conversion rates for the two groups were similar at days 4, 7, 10, 14, and 21.

Adverse events were reported in 8.8% of patients in the control group compared with 30% in the HCQ group.
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Admittedly this small study is inconclusive but until this treatment is thoroughly tested it is medically malfeasance to recommend HCQ as a treatment and much worse for a moron tub-o-lard pr*sident to go around encouraging it.
 
digitusmedius said:
One of the very few actual HCQ randomized controlled trials done on 150 hospitalized covid-19 patients was just reported out of China showing no difference in outcome between treated and control cohorts. But there was a significant rate of serious side effects in the treated group v controls:


Admittedly this small study is inconclusive but until this treatment is thoroughly tested it is medically malfeasance to recommend HCQ as a treatment and much worse for a moron tub-o-lard pr*sident to go around encouraging it.
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How long do you think that it will take for someone to post that the whole story is a fake and the Chinese are concealing the fact that Mr. Trump's assessment is correct?

The updated figures (See Note 1) for 20/04/19 from COVID-19 Coronavirus Pandemic (this site also has graphs in both “linear” and “logarithmic” scales) - as of my first coffee of the day – are:

COUNTRYTOTAL CASES
(A)		TOTAL DEATHS
(B)		CASES PER
1,000,000		DEATHS PER
1,000,000		MORTALITY RATE
(B)/(A)		TESTS PER
1,000,000
WORLD2,345,338161,27530220.70.0688UNKNOWN
CHINA
(See NOTE 2)

82,735

4,632

57

3

0.0600

UNKOWN
USA
(See Note 3)

738,923

39,015

2.232

118

0.0530

11,245
CANADA33,3831,470885390.044013,677
CANADA
x 8.7
(See NOTE 4)

290,432

12,789

885

39

0.0440

13,677

NOTE 1 – As of 15 APR 2020 Canada and the United States of America use _the same criteria for reporting_ both “Total Cases” and “Total Deaths”. Prior to 15 APR 2020, the US did NOT include “probable” cases and deaths but only reported “confirmed” cases and deaths. Some other countries also use the same criteria for both “Total Cases” and “Total Deaths” as Canada and (now) the US use, but I don’t know which do and which don’t.

NOTE 2 – Chinese figures are not accepted as reliable at this time.

NOTE 3 –

More Americans have now died from COVID-19 than died due to -the Battle of Gettysburg (7,058), the H1N1 flu (12,469), the Revolutionary War (~25,000), the Normandy Campaign (29,204), influenza in an average year (~35,000)- the Korean War (36,516).

The next ”Grim Mortality Milestone” is the number of deaths -from the H1N1 flu, the Revolutionary War, the Normandy Campaign, influenza in an average year, the Korean War (36,516)- in the Vietnam War (58,209).

For data on individual US States follow THIS LINK.
​

NOTE 4 – Absolute numbers [Columns (A) and (B)] adjusted to show what they would be if Canada had the same size population as the US. The ratio numbers remain the same.
​
 
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