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Hydroxychloroquine and Chloroquine for Thousands in New York

Jack Hays

Jack Hays

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Full speed ahead in New York.

Trump keeps touting an unproven treatment. It’s now being tested on thousands in N.Y.

The effort has raised concerns among health experts. But President Trump’s intervention and New York Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo’s embrace of the strategy has fueled popular excitement about the drugs.




New York is moving at unprecedented speed and scale in a human experiment to distribute tens of thousands of doses of anti-malarial drugs to seriously ill patients, spurred by political leaders including President Trump to try a treatment that is not proved to be effective against the coronavirus.

With no proven treatment for the coronavirus, and infections in New York topping 30,000, health experts say the Food and Drug Administration has moved with uncommon speed to authorize New York’s sweeping plan to distribute the drugs through hospital networks. . . .

New York will use three medications — hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine in combination with the antibiotic azithromycin — contributed by the Federal Emergency Management Agency and Amneal Pharmaceuticals, the state said. The first wave of patients will receive hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin. . . .
 
damn. that's the first thing (besides the virus and the deaths or course) that's concerning to me. it means we have no clue and are just guessing.


here's to hoping this guess works.
 
Jack Hays said:
Full speed ahead in New York.

Trump keeps touting an unproven treatment. It’s now being tested on thousands in N.Y.

The effort has raised concerns among health experts. But President Trump’s intervention and New York Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo’s embrace of the strategy has fueled popular excitement about the drugs.




New York is moving at unprecedented speed and scale in a human experiment to distribute tens of thousands of doses of anti-malarial drugs to seriously ill patients, spurred by political leaders including President Trump to try a treatment that is not proved to be effective against the coronavirus.

With no proven treatment for the coronavirus, and infections in New York topping 30,000, health experts say the Food and Drug Administration has moved with uncommon speed to authorize New York’s sweeping plan to distribute the drugs through hospital networks. . . .

New York will use three medications — hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine in combination with the antibiotic azithromycin — contributed by the Federal Emergency Management Agency and Amneal Pharmaceuticals, the state said. The first wave of patients will receive hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin. . . .
Click to expand...



What are you saying? Are you saying that Trump is right, that chloroquine is safe to take, that chloroquine is a savior drug? Do you think what YOU SAY is actually being done in New York and is a good thing? What are you saying, if anything at all?
 
Must be a breach in the climate ward...............
 
Jack Hays said:
Full speed ahead in New York.

Trump keeps touting an unproven treatment. It’s now being tested on thousands in N.Y.

The effort has raised concerns among health experts. But President Trump’s intervention and New York Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo’s embrace of the strategy has fueled popular excitement about the drugs.




New York is moving at unprecedented speed and scale in a human experiment to distribute tens of thousands of doses of anti-malarial drugs to seriously ill patients, spurred by political leaders including President Trump to try a treatment that is not proved to be effective against the coronavirus.

With no proven treatment for the coronavirus, and infections in New York topping 30,000, health experts say the Food and Drug Administration has moved with uncommon speed to authorize New York’s sweeping plan to distribute the drugs through hospital networks. . . .

New York will use three medications — hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine in combination with the antibiotic azithromycin — contributed by the Federal Emergency Management Agency and Amneal Pharmaceuticals, the state said. The first wave of patients will receive hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin. . . .
Click to expand...

The way I understand it( and by no means is my understanding correct) a doctor can prescribe almost any legal medication,
both of these are legal, and while they have side effects, may prove useful. A small study from France showed the combination effective,
Let's hope the numbers hold up in a larger test!
 
bluesmoke said:
What are you saying? Are you saying that Trump is right, that chloroquine is safe to take, that chloroquine is a savior drug? Do you think what YOU SAY is actually being done in New York and is a good thing? What are you saying, if anything at all?
Click to expand...

I'm saying that the state of New York has decided it's worth trying on a large scale. It's not a matter of whether Trump is right or wrong.
 
CaughtInThe said:
damn. that's the first thing (besides the virus and the deaths or course) that's concerning to me. it means we have no clue and are just guessing.


here's to hoping this guess works.
Click to expand...

Yeah, this is a complete shot in the dark. Well there's no testing like Human Testing, so we'll see if this has any sort of effect. I hope they perform the experiment correctly too, so we're not just reporting on a placebo effect.
 
calamity said:
Quack president equals quack cures
Click to expand...

to be honest, i hope Trump's guess turns out to be right. doesn't make it any less a guess but if right, and it saves even one life (without harming others), it's probably worth it.


those people are Guinea Pigs at the moment though.
 
Ikari said:
Yeah, this is a complete shot in the dark. Well there's no testing like Human Testing, so we'll see if this has any sort of effect. I hope they perform the experiment correctly too, so we're not just reporting on a placebo effect.
Click to expand...

There will be no placebos.
 
It could be because

Not all drugs are available for compassionate use, and drug companies aren't required to supply their drugs through compassionate use. Drug companies have different policies and processes, but laws require all drug developers to publicly post contact information for compassionate use requests.
Click to expand...
Compassionate Drug Use
 
"Full speed ahead in New York."

Please everyone be aware the use of this drug in NY is for CLINICAL TRIALS ONLY. Do not be misled by this dishonest, disingenuous OP. It is by no means "Full speed ahead in New York." BE AWARE of this OP.
 
bluesmoke said:
"Full speed ahead in New York."

Please everyone be aware the use of this drug in NY is for CLINICAL TRIALS ONLY. Do not be misled by this dishonest, disingenuous OP. It is by no means "Full speed ahead in New York." BE AWARE of this OP.
Click to expand...

oh. i didn't know that.
 
Ikari said:
Yeah, this is a complete shot in the dark. Well there's no testing like Human Testing, so we'll see if this has any sort of effect. I hope they perform the experiment correctly too, so we're not just reporting on a placebo effect.
Click to expand...

If the effect of placebos is to reduce people’s sickness and get them off of ventilators and recovered then it really doesn’t matter if it’s only a placebo.

When I read O’Henry’s The last leaf and read the ending sentence I was shocked at the beauty of the plot twist, were you reading it saying “oh gosh that’s ONLY a placebo” ?
 
Ikari said:
Yeah, this is a complete shot in the dark. Well there's no testing like Human Testing, so we'll see if this has any sort of effect. I hope they perform the experiment correctly too, so we're not just reporting on a placebo effect.
Click to expand...
I am not sure it is a complete shot in the dark,
Malaria Drug and Antibiotic Combo May Work Against COVID-19, But Experts Warn Caution and Skepticism | BioSpace
The French study, which is very small, “showed a significant reduction of the viral carriage”
after six days of treatment and “much lower average carrying duration” compared to patients receiving other treatment.
Click to expand...
 
bluesmoke said:
"Full speed ahead in New York."

Please everyone be aware the use of this drug in NY is for CLINICAL TRIALS ONLY. Do not be misled by this dishonest, disingenuous OP. It is by no means "Full speed ahead in New York." BE AWARE of this OP.
Click to expand...

Well that is full speed ahead, for the largest clinical trial of the drug yet taken.
 
Jack Hays said:
There will be no placebos.
Click to expand...

So we're not really going to know then. You need placebos so you have a background to compare the rest of the results from. You can get some percentage of people who get the drug recovering, but not because of factors and benefits of the drugs themselves. So typically there is a double-blind experiment to be able to factor conditions and false-positives like this out.

But it looks like this is just an attempt to throw medicine at the wall and see what sticks.

lol

Well I hope that it works.
 
bluesmoke said:
"Full speed ahead in New York."

Please everyone be aware the use of this drug in NY is for CLINICAL TRIALS ONLY. Do not be misled by this dishonest, disingenuous OP. It is by no means "Full speed ahead in New York." BE AWARE of this OP.
Click to expand...
If they are talking about tens of thousands of doses, it must be a big trial.
 
Ikari said:
So we're not really going to know then. You need placebos so you have a background to compare the rest of the results from. You can get some percentage of people who get the drug recovering, but not because of factors and benefits of the drugs themselves. So typically there is a double-blind experiment to be able to factor conditions and false-positives like this out.

But it looks like this is just an attempt to throw medicine at the wall and see what sticks.

lol

Well I hope that it works.
Click to expand...

From the WaPo article:

. . . Patient outcomes from the experiment will be gathered electronically and contribute to an “observational” trial being coordinated by the government, the official said. In an observational trial, which is considered less rigorous than a controlled trial comparing a treatment with a placebo, researchers see if a therapy is safe and effective by gathering and comparing the results in a large database. . . .
 
Ikari said:
So we're not really going to know then. You need placebos so you have a background to compare the rest of the results from. You can get some percentage of people who get the drug recovering, but not because of factors and benefits of the drugs themselves. So typically there is a double-blind experiment to be able to factor conditions and false-positives like this out.

But it looks like this is just an attempt to throw medicine at the wall and see what sticks.

lol

Well I hope that it works.
Click to expand...
I suspect that some percentage of those ill cannot take ether the hydroxychloroquine or the azithromycin.
They might get some other treatment, but could be evaluated as a control group.
Also New York's group could be compared to recovery rates from say California, not using the drug combination.
 
EMNofSeattle said:
If the effect of placebos is to reduce people’s sickness and get them off of ventilators and recovered then it really doesn’t matter if it’s only a placebo.

When I read O’Henry’s The last leaf and read the ending sentence I was shocked at the beauty of the plot twist, were you reading it saying “oh gosh that’s ONLY a placebo” ?
Click to expand...

It does matter because the placebo effect isn't aggregate. Meaning that if you give someone a drug or a placebo that doesn't work, but tell them that it does, not everyone recovers. So if your goal is to combat a sickness, you need to know if a drug actually works. Sure, for any given individual should it matter if they got better because of placebo effect or actual medicine? So long as they actually got better, it should be fine. But that thinking doesn't hold for the aggregate. You can't throw a placebo at 100 people and think that 100 people are going to recover, or even 90 or even 50. So 1 person can recover via placebo, and that's great for that 1 person, but it's not great for the ensemble.
 
Jack Hays said:
From the WaPo article:

. . . Patient outcomes from the experiment will be gathered electronically and contribute to an “observational” trial being coordinated by the government, the official said. In an observational trial, which is considered less rigorous than a controlled trial comparing a treatment with a placebo, researchers see if a therapy is safe and effective by gathering and comparing the results in a large database. . . .
Click to expand...

So mostly they're just trying to make sure the medicine won't kill people on whole.

Cool, cool cool.

They can probably get some sense, but as they said, this is not as rigorous as an actual blind study with placebo. This is the poor man's experiment. There's a reason we've adopted the more rigorous methods of testing.
 
Ikari said:
Yeah, this is a complete shot in the dark. Well there's no testing like Human Testing, so we'll see if this has any sort of effect. I hope they perform the experiment correctly too, so we're not just reporting on a placebo effect.
Click to expand...

When there is no well defined treatment, this kind of testing in this circumstances, in a controlled environment. It would be needed to actually get data, rather than just blindly giving it.
 
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