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Thread: Panic Over High Death Rate

  1. #31
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    Re: Panic Over High Death Rate

    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    Except the rate for Covid 19 as presented by the media is extrordinarily high and is likely completely off base.
    Based on what evidence?

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    Re: Panic Over High Death Rate

    Quote Originally Posted by Kreton View Post
    This is what is what I am countering in your post.


    ALL of these numbers reflect this year only, year to date.


    Lumping COVID-19 in with these things serves what purpose other than to minimize the potential of this virus? The threat that COVID-19 brings has nothing in common with the threat of these things. None. So lumping them all together to show it hasn't killed enough only shows you don't understand why the numbers are low, or why it is different than suicide.
    Did you visit the link I provided?

    Worldometer grouped all of those other things together and they all cause large numbers of deaths as listed by Worldometer in Year to Date numbers.

    If listing those things, including regular Flu, seems to you to lessen the threat posed by Coronavirus, then that is what it does for you.

    The numbers are the numbers.

    If you have a football team and they have a bunch of professionals who all previously had great stats, but can't win a game, you probably need to figure out why.

    The numbers are the numbers.

    If you have a disease that is not killing as many as other causes that are far more deadly, but the response to the lesser causation is paralyzing the world when the others did not, you probably need to figure out why.

    Suicide is not a cause. It is a result. There are various emotional, physical and mental disorders that lead some to suicide. Hopelessness is the worst thing there is in a human being. It is the root cause of suicide. Hope can be removed by various things.

    I have been upset or sad in my life, but never so bereft of hope that suicide was a serious consideration. It is something, thankfully, beyond my experience to grasp.

    Regarding the potential, potential is what is causing the panic. Potential vs reality. At some point, we, as a country and as a world, will need to go back to work.

    Regardless of the progress made on this at that time of return, the virus will not have been eradicated.

    THAT is the point of my post. The are other things we live with every day that are more deadly than Covid-19. This will probably be just one more thing that we will need to accept as a thing we need to live with.
    We huh we'r we're it's it's a we're in the middle of a pandemic that has cost us more than 85,000 jobs as of today. Lives of billions of people. Millions of people. Millions of jobs. You know, we're in a position where, you know, we just got new unemployment insurance... -Joe Biden

  3. #33
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    Re: Panic Over High Death Rate

    Quote Originally Posted by code1211 View Post
    Did you visit the link I provided?

    Worldometer grouped all of those other things together and they all cause large numbers of deaths as listed by Worldometer in Year to Date numbers.

    If listing those things, including regular Flu, seems to you to lessen the threat posed by Coronavirus, then that is what it does for you.

    The numbers are the numbers.

    If you have a football team and they have a bunch of professionals who all previously had great stats, but can't win a game, you probably need to figure out why.

    The numbers are the numbers.

    If you have a disease that is not killing as many as other causes that are far more deadly, but the response to the lesser causation is paralyzing the world when the others did not, you probably need to figure out why.

    Suicide is not a cause. It is a result. There are various emotional, physical and mental disorders that lead some to suicide. Hopelessness is the worst thing there is in a human being. It is the root cause of suicide. Hope can be removed by various things.

    I have been upset or sad in my life, but never so bereft of hope that suicide was a serious consideration. It is something, thankfully, beyond my experience to grasp.

    Regarding the potential, potential is what is causing the panic. Potential vs reality. At some point, we, as a country and as a world, will need to go back to work.

    Regardless of the progress made on this at that time of return, the virus will not have been eradicated.

    THAT is the point of my post. The are other things we live with every day that are more deadly than Covid-19. This will probably be just one more thing that we will need to accept as a thing we need to live with.
    This minimising of a deadly pandemic is bizarre. Good old familiar "regular flu" is widespread throughout the population, and various strains can be active simultaneously with random immunity for some.This is not the same as a single novel infection, for which there is no vaccine, and 30 times more infectious than "regular flu"
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    Re: Panic Over High Death Rate

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    Well, technically speaking, herd immunity can be a great solution if you’re willing to adopt a “kill em all and let god sort it out” approach.
    Herd immunity is not akin to killing off the entire herd - it is letting natural forces remove (cull?) the most vulnerable (oldest and/or weakest) from it, thus leaving the remainder of the herd largely intact. That was essentially Lt. Gov. Abbott's "plan".
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: Panic Over High Death Rate

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    Well, technically speaking, herd immunity can be a great solution if you’re willing to adopt a “kill em all and let god sort it out” approach.
    Got it. I see that you just needed a place to vent. But if not, I did like the visualizations from this Washington Post article because it's accessible and doesn't get lost in mathematical jargon:

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/graph...ona-simulator/

    I agree that herd immunity should not be a recommended strategy in general.

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    Re: Panic Over High Death Rate

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Herd immunity is not akin to killing off the entire herd - it is letting natural forces remove (cull?) the most vulnerable (oldest and/or weakest) from it, thus leaving the remainder of the herd largely intact. That was essentially Lt. Gov. Abbott's "plan".
    Yes, herd immunity is a fine solution if you don’t think human life has value.

  7. #37
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    Re: Panic Over High Death Rate

    Quote Originally Posted by code1211 View Post
    There has recently been a panic over the high mortality rate of victims of Covid-19. Any high death count is alarming.

    Here are some other high mortality counts from this year to date as of March 24, 2020 at about 8:30 pm or so.

    These other mortality count causes don't seem to attract much attention. Covid-19 is also listed for comparison. All of these causes are listed in the same section at Worldometer.

    ALL of these numbers reflect this year only, year to date.

    1. Abortions: 9,757,860
    2. Smoking: 1,147,165
    3. Road Traffic: 309,909
    4. Suicide: 246,191
    5. Regular Flu: 111,595
    6. Covid-19: 18,810

    Worldometer - real time world statistics

    The national goal for the huge number of folks to shelter at home for a few weeks is to flatten the curve so our hospital system is not overrun with all of the cases front loaded during the course of the national epidemic.

    When the shelter at home is ended, the pandemic around the world and the epidemic here in the US will not be over. In truth, it may get worse.

    However, the hospital system we have will be able to handle the flattened curve demand. There may be drug therapies proven to distribute at that point and there may not be. Certainly, there will not be a vaccine.

    This interruption in our lives is not to eradicate the disease from the US before Easter.

    It is intended to slow the initial onslaught of Covid-19 victims needing care to a pace at which our hospital system might provide beds in hospitals for the newly struck victims as needed.

    Just sayin'... Our social distancing will probably need to evolve as we incorporate a new normal into our lives at the time(s) we return to our normal lives.
    For one almost every one of those other killers is through choices, and the flu has a vaccine.
    This virus has no vaccine and hence there is no choice other than isolation. And the number of deaths is not yet predictable, especially since we have very little screening.
    I think you are guessing and hoping to convince yourself that this is no big deal. You are making a huge mistake, but hey go live your life as normal but please don't spread it to others.

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    Re: Panic Over High Death Rate

    Quote Originally Posted by code1211 View Post
    When I Googled Coronavirus panic, I got 324,000,000 hits. Here's one.

    Coronavirus Panic Buying Puts Grocery Workers and Shoppers at Risk of Infection — ProPublica

    Coronavirus Panic Buying Puts Grocery Workers and Shoppers at Risk of Infection

    Braving grocery store crowds when you’re already stocked up puts you at risk of getting sick or infecting others, including elderly workers and others who have no choice but to be there.
    by Alexandra Zayas
    March 16, 9:18 a.m. EDT
    Haven't been in a grocery store lately if you think there are crowds.

  9. #39
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    Re: Panic Over High Death Rate

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    Yes, herd immunity is a fine solution if you don’t think human life has value.
    Human life has value, but so does 'non-essential' work.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  10. #40
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    Re: Panic Over High Death Rate

    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    That's not panic over death rates. That's hoarding.
    Are you seriously asserting that the hoarding of normal everyday items by otherwise normal people is unrelated to Coronavirus?

    Coronavirus-fueled panic buying, hoarding cause record high egg prices

    Panic buying — and hoarding — drive higher prices for eggs, milk and other staples

    Donnelle Eller, Des Moines RegisterPublished 6:12 p.m. CT March 25, 2020
    We huh we'r we're it's it's a we're in the middle of a pandemic that has cost us more than 85,000 jobs as of today. Lives of billions of people. Millions of people. Millions of jobs. You know, we're in a position where, you know, we just got new unemployment insurance... -Joe Biden

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