Reconciliation Act H.R.4872 Brings Microchipping to America

The Giant Noodle · Mar 30, 2010

Very sneeky :roll:

Microchiping included in Healthcare Bill?

During the thorough coverage of H.R.3590 America thought it was free of a ‘Healthcare System’ that allowed a national medical registry to be created and the population to be tagged with implantable RFID chips. But a second heath care related bill called “The Reconciliation Act of 2010” (2300 pages) was recently passed by the Senate on March 25th after being passed by the House on March 21st. This bill has been cleared for the White House and awaits the signature of the Dictator and Chief. Buried in the text of the 2300 page monstrosity in section 2521, the creation of a National Medical Device Registry is enacted. This is portrayed as a registry to collect safety data on medical devices such as pacemakers and to put the safety data in a publicly accessible national electronic database.

But as usual the wording of this bill permits the creation of something entirely quite different. In 2004 the FDA approved the Verichip for use of storing medical records. This device was classified as a Class II medical device. This is most likely the Class II implantable device being referred to in this section of the bill. The bill allows the unique device identifier (Chip ID tag) to be linked to “postmarket safety patient outcome data” regarding the implantable device itself. In order “to facilitate the analyses of postmarket safety and patient outcomes” the health secretary will examine ways to gain access to Medicare health records, private sector health records and other data deemed necessary (including surveillance data) by the Health Secretary and then link it to the database and your RFID implant. Just to be accurate, section (3) defines “data” as “claims data, patient survey data, standardized analytic files that allow for the pooling and analysis of data from disparate data environments, electronic health records, and any other data deemed appropriate by the secretary.”

So basically this bill creates a National Database of any type of data deemed appropriate by the executive branch of the US Federal Government. This could literally be anything. This could include anything you might have expected to find in an East German Stasi file. All of this data will then be linked to a “Class II implantable device” under your skin. There you have it, just like Lindsey Williams warned us. Forget the national ID card, implantable microchips are coming to a clinic near you no later than 36 months after the bill is signed into law.

Forget the national ID card, implantable microchips are coming to a clinic near you no later than 36 months after the bill is signed into law.

CriticalThought · Mar 30, 2010

Immigration reform is where there is the greatest cause for concern when it comes to this kind of technology. As we push for national identification in order to ensure our borders, the likelihood increases that this kind of technology will play a role. I don't see anything in the health care reform that would lead to this sort of outcome. The United States already has many National Databases that contains incredible amounts of data on every citizen. This comes across as health care reform fear mongering to me.

Gipper · Mar 30, 2010

This will never happen. First of all, America is still staunchly religious and prefers to enforce Judeo-Christian values. Because of this, the warnings about the "mark of the Beast" and the insinuations set aside in Revelations and umpteen other Reckoning-based books will cause this plan to be the source of a national uproar. Freedom-based people, libertarians, and just generally those who are fearful of a centralized federal government will also try to circumvent this pseudo-law.

I can understand this becoming option for liberals and others who follow big government like sheep, but as far as becoming mandatory I just cannot get there. The only way would be to peform the procedure on those who are comatose or sedated and have no way of knowing as such, which would also be doomed to fail and bring about some serious professional ethics violations.

A scary thought, but I'll wait a while before I grab a thousand cans of beans, a bomb shelter, and a shotgun.

dirtpoorchris · Mar 30, 2010

Just to be accurate, section (3) defines “data” as “claims data, patient survey data, standardized analytic files that allow for the pooling and analysis of data from disparate data environments, electronic health records, and any other data deemed appropriate by the secretary.”

Might as well just say "Just to be accurate, section (3) defines “data” as any data deemed appropriate by the secretary.”

I wonder how many moer "conspiracy theory" type stuff needs to find its way out of the wood works b4 people start realizing. I remember when it was "STFU loony. Why would the government want to chip people?"

Tell everyone that the government is rapidly absorbing huge private sectors? "STFU loony. We trust the gubment. We don't need a crashes." (And so what do they got their hands on now? Car, bank, they tried for news but that was quashed this time around, ohhhh and the strategic hill on the health care industry hill.)

Argue about how people are trying to start a New World Order? "STFU loony. Noone is taking steps start any extra world powers"

America paying mercs to distribute death? "STFU, we need crap like blackwater for defense! There is no proof they murder" (wonder why they need access to strike drones in a situation in which no harm could come to them...)

Thank you H.R.4872. It is little messes of words jumbled together like you are that make conspiracies believable.

The Giant Noodle · Mar 31, 2010

This should not be in conspiracy theroy section should it? Its news.... Not a conspiracy. *shrug* :roll:

dirtpoorchris · Mar 31, 2010

The Giant Noodle said:
This should not be in conspiracy theroy section should it? Its news.... Not a conspiracy. *shrug* :roll:

Welcome to DP. Thats how they do it round here. Top of the lister on google puttin it down.

BmanMcfly · Mar 31, 2010

The Giant Noodle said:
This should not be in conspiracy theroy section should it? Its news.... Not a conspiracy. *shrug* :roll:

Conspiracy theory does not equal theories about conspiracies, at least on this forum.

Conspiracy theory for all intents and purposes is anything that goes against republican / decratic dogma. For example : a reuters article I once posted was put in the conspiracy theory and I was given a 'warning violation' for it.

You could have had a news article, with the bill section and number listed, with a photograph of the text from the bill itself... it doesn't matter what the facts of the matter are... issues like microchips are a conspiracy theory.

If Obama said the sky was purple, it would become 'conspiracy theory' to suggest it was blue. Edit : The same like how Bush could have openly announced his regular diet of three babies per day and it would be 'conspiracy theory' to even bring up that he said it.

Hoplite · Apr 1, 2010

The Giant Noodle said:
This should not be in conspiracy theroy section should it? Its news.... Not a conspiracy. *shrug* :roll:

Your source is InfoWars...

What is described is basically a way to take your entire medical history and all your medical information anywhere you go and make it readable by any medical service you encounter. This would be an invaluable tool for doctors, paramedics, and hospitals.

I also dont see anything in here about this being mandatory.

BmanMcfly · Apr 1, 2010

Hoplite said:
Your source is InfoWars...

What is described is basically a way to take your entire medical history and all your medical information anywhere you go and make it readable by any medical service you encounter. This would be an invaluable tool for doctors, paramedics, and hospitals.

I also dont see anything in here about this being mandatory.

Well, no, microchipping people is FAR to great a threat for anyone of serious religious beliefs.

By the time 'chips' become mandatory, the vast majority of people will already have chips, and it will be made mandatory by creating a system where NOT having the chip will make life so difficult that most people will just get one to avoid the constant hassle of not having one.

If it actually IS an 'RFID' technology, then the information can be stolen with an 'rfid reader'. The chips for some reason don't have any real encryption...

This will also happen eventually through the digitization of currency... first it's chips on the bank card, then your bank account will just tie into the chip on your cellphone, then the argument can be made that if you inject the chip into your hand then you swipe your hand and 'credits' are deducted from the account tied to your chip.

Hoplite · Apr 1, 2010

BmanMcfly said:
Well, no, microchipping people is FAR to great a threat for anyone of serious religious beliefs.

I do believe the expression is "tough bricks"

By the time 'chips' become mandatory

I see no indication that this is the plan, do you have evidence that it is?

the vast majority of people will already have chips, and it will be made mandatory by creating a system where NOT having the chip will make life so difficult that most people will just get one to avoid the constant hassle of not having one.

Should we stop the advance of technology or keep around outmoded forms of technology to keep throwbacks happy?

If it actually IS an 'RFID' technology, then the information can be stolen with an 'rfid reader'. The chips for some reason don't have any real encryption...

Source? And even if it's true, that isnt an unfixable problem.

This will also happen eventually through the digitization of currency... first it's chips on the bank card, then your bank account will just tie into the chip on your cellphone, then the argument can be made that if you inject the chip into your hand then you swipe your hand and 'credits' are deducted from the account tied to your chip.

Ok, and?

BmanMcfly · Apr 1, 2010

Hoplite said:
I do believe the expression is "tough bricks"

I see no indication that this is the plan, do you have evidence that it is?

Simply, not from any source that you would accept (ie : not in any MSM source). I could probably point you to 2-3 sources, but I'm not even going to bother right now because I already KNOW your response to those sources.

Should we stop the advance of technology or keep around outmoded forms of technology to keep throwbacks happy?

People that would view accepting a microchip (especially in the hand or forehead) as the 'mark of the beast' don't view the issue as being 'throwbacks' but because they in no way wish to allign themselves with the 'evil' that's represented...

A more relevant question would be are the benefits truly outweighing the risks on this issue?

Source? And even if it's true, that isnt an unfixable problem.

Search 'mythbusters verichip' for starters... in case you can't / won't look for it... mythbusters was going to test how 'safe' and secure the chips really are... they were threatened by lawsuits in order to keep that episode from the air... which was already a moot point because hackers had already determined that the data (even on your credit cards, passport, and some local drivers liscences) are completely unencrypted... if you send the frequency to activate the chip, the radio transmitter on the chip spits out all the information on the chip (name, address, phone number, etc) all the information one would need to clone another card.

Ok, and?

I love it when people use 'and' as an argument...

'ok, and', if you don't sit down and shut up in the face of anything you disagree with... well... all that's needed is to shut off the chip, and for all intents and purposes, you no longer exist, you can no longer buy, sell or trade (because all transactions are controlled through the chip).

'ok, and', if you can't buy or sell anything, and you don't have any survivalist skills (a rare skillset as it is), then your chip being shut off would spell your inevitable death.

Hoplite · Apr 1, 2010

BmanMcfly said:
Simply, not from any source that you would accept (ie : not in any MSM source). I could probably point you to 2-3 sources, but I'm not even going to bother right now because I already KNOW your response to those sources.

So no verifiable or trustworthy sources. Which means it's a worthless claim.

People that would view accepting a microchip (especially in the hand or forehead) as the 'mark of the beast' don't view the issue as being 'throwbacks' but because they in no way wish to allign themselves with the 'evil' that's represented...

The forehead is a VERY stupid place to put a microchip and the hand isnt much better.

If people want to be paranoid and overly-superstitious then Im sure there is a solution that can be thought up. Maybe a bracelet, necklace, or other piece of jewelry with the information so as to be un-obtrusive.

A more relevant question would be are the benefits truly outweighing the risks on this issue?

What are the risks?

Search 'mythbusters verichip' for starters... in case you can't / won't look for it... mythbusters was going to test how 'safe' and secure the chips really are... they were threatened by lawsuits in order to keep that episode from the air...

I actually did search and I came up with a slew of unsourced, unverified, and wildly paranoid claims. Surprise surprise.

which was already a moot point because hackers had already determined that the data (even on your credit cards, passport, and some local drivers liscences) are completely unencrypted... if you send the frequency to activate the chip, the radio transmitter on the chip spits out all the information on the chip (name, address, phone number, etc) all the information one would need to clone another card.

Except we arent talking about credit card information and encryption CAN be added to the chip. Aside from that, what is your average hacker going to do with medical information?

I love it when people use 'and' as an argument...

It simply means I dont see a point to what you posted.

'ok, and', if you don't sit down and shut up in the face of anything you disagree with... well... all that's needed is to shut off the chip, and for all intents and purposes, you no longer exist, you can no longer buy, sell or trade (because all transactions are controlled through the chip).

So let me use a term you may be more familiar with, so what? We have that now.

BmanMcfly · Apr 1, 2010

Hoplite said:
So no verifiable or trustworthy sources. Which means it's a worthless claim.

No, verifiable sources, straight out of the mouths of the people with the clout to pull off such a thing... I won't bother because you'll just say 'out of context', or 'that's not what it says', or 'doesn't exist'...

The forehead is a VERY stupid place to put a microchip and the hand isnt much better.

Explain... while I agree a chip in the forehead would be an odd place to put a chip to control currency... the technology for 'brain chips' essentially exists already, if you were to look at the tests being performed with chimpanzees.

In the hand WOULD be a good place because you can move your hand to the chip reader... it's the same technology as those systems that some gas stations have where the chip is tied to your credit card, and you just move the chip next to the reader and it performs the transaction.

If people want to be paranoid and overly-superstitious then Im sure there is a solution that can be thought up. Maybe a bracelet, necklace, or other piece of jewelry with the information so as to be un-obtrusive.

Yes, that COULD be a solution... but if the intention is to 'chip' all humans, in much the same way that a farmer brands all his cattle, that's a difficult issue.

What are the risks?

Health risks, because radio frequencies being generated within the body can potentially cause mutagenic effects that can lead to cancer.

From the religious perspective, this is the system that leads to the path towards armageddon. So, in the sense that if a tyrannical dictator takes hold of this system

I actually did search and I came up with a slew of unsourced, unverified, and wildly paranoid claims. Surprise surprise.

Except we arent talking about credit card information and encryption CAN be added to the chip. Aside from that, what is your average hacker going to do with medical information?

If your 'medical information' ALSO contains your : name, address, phone number, insurance information, etc... then all that's needed is to 'transpose' that information to a new chip and your identity is stolen.

So let me use a term you may be more familiar with, so what? We have that now.

Yes, but NOW we still have 'freedom of speech', you're under no threat of not being ALLOWED to buy, sell or trade... so you'll have to explain how we are already under such a system??

Hoplite · Apr 2, 2010

BmanMcfly said:
No, verifiable sources, straight out of the mouths of the people with the clout to pull off such a thing... I won't bother because you'll just say 'out of context', or 'that's not what it says', or 'doesn't exist'...

In other words, they're crap sources and you know it.

Explain...

Put your forehead down on a flat surface. If you had a chip there, you'd have crushed it.

while I agree a chip in the forehead would be an odd place to put a chip to control currency... the technology for 'brain chips' essentially exists already, if you were to look at the tests being performed with chimpanzees.

FYI, the brain is not the forehead.

In the hand WOULD be a good place because you can move your hand to the chip reader... it's the same technology as those systems that some gas stations have where the chip is tied to your credit card, and you just move the chip next to the reader and it performs the transaction.

No it really isnt. The hand gets banged up badly and exposed to a lot of serious wear and tear. Not to mention it's easy to seriously damage or sever. Putting your whole life on a chip like that in your hand...not a good idea.

Yes, that COULD be a solution... but if the intention is to 'chip' all humans, in much the same way that a farmer brands all his cattle, that's a difficult issue.

Its only difficult if you are overly-paranoid.

Health risks, because radio frequencies being generated within the body can potentially cause mutagenic effects that can lead to cancer.

Dear gods I cant wait to hear the science behind this, do tell.

From the religious perspective, this is the system that leads to the path towards armageddon. So, in the sense that if a tyrannical dictator takes hold of this system

Again, why should we stymie medical and technological advances because people are superstitious?

If your 'medical information' ALSO contains your : name, address, phone number, insurance information, etc... then all that's needed is to 'transpose' that information to a new chip and your identity is stolen.

True, but again you are completely ignoring the fact that encrypting a chip is not impossible.

Yes, but NOW we still have 'freedom of speech', you're under no threat of not being ALLOWED to buy, sell or trade... so you'll have to explain how we are already under such a system??

Unity and hegemony breeds stability, political or economic.

dirtpoorchris · Apr 2, 2010

Maybe the RFID thingy wouldnt be so scary if bush didnt have all the nations TV transmitters converted into something else... Gotta love all digital! Gotta get your converter boxes fo yo tv so the gubment can track ya. If they where going to implemet microchipping though you can bet it will be in a spot that is very hazardous if taken out incorrectly. Think deep ear canal or injected from below your ribs up into the backside of your sternum.

BmanMcfly · Apr 2, 2010

Hoplite said:
In other words, they're crap sources and you know it.

No, use as example Rockefeller, who wrote that he was 'guilty and proud of' certain charges made against him throughout his carreer. People have tried to 'debunk that' by saying his admission of guilt is 'out of context'... and so, because the source is of that nature, people involved in moulding these agenda's discussing mass microchipping of the populations, you'll just call it 'crap' and move on anyway... So, are you asking, or do you really wanna know, cause unless you really wanna know, I'm not gonna waste time searching for anything more then specifics about the companies involved in making implantable microchips for the millitary, some bars use microchips like a 'VIP pass', but the actual question of how I could say that there's an agenda to move all currency to implanted chips, that you won't accept.

Put your forehead down on a flat surface. If you had a chip there, you'd have crushed it.

That is true, but if that's your only access point to your bank account, opens the doors at your office, unlicks your car door, turns off your security system as you walk in, and other 'useful' functions... you don't have much motivation to 'break it'...

FYI, the brain is not the forehead.

It's a matter of depth, on the surface is the forehead, probably a 1/2 inch of skull, and an inch in the frontal lobe.

No it really isnt. The hand gets banged up badly and exposed to a lot of serious wear and tear. Not to mention it's easy to seriously damage or sever. Putting your whole life on a chip like that in your hand...not a good idea.

I suppose but how many people really lose their limbs ??

Dear gods I cant wait to hear the science behind this, do tell.

BBC NEWS | Health | Scientists develop 'brain chip'
Bionic brain chips could overcome paralysis - health - 01 September 2009 - New Scientist
BBC NEWS | Health | Brain chip reads man's thoughts

Just on a 30 second search.

Again, why should we stymie medical and technological advances because people are superstitious?

Well, it depends on the intention, you really do have to weigh the specific positives and negatives. I'm not 100% that this bill specifically intends implantable chips, because a new card could also be implanted with a chip and is much less invasive.

True, but again you are completely ignoring the fact that encrypting a chip is not impossible.

Well... should ask 'verichip' (or whatever the new name of that company is)

Unity and hegemony breeds stability, political or economic.

The funny thing is that I doubt you fully grasp just how accurate this statement is....

You're thiking in 4 or 8 year terms... but I consider the hegemony of 'the white house' which has been around alot longer.

Hoplite · Apr 3, 2010

BmanMcfly said:
No, use as example Rockefeller, who wrote that he was 'guilty and proud of' certain charges made against him throughout his carreer. People have tried to 'debunk that' by saying his admission of guilt is 'out of context'... and so, because the source is of that nature, people involved in moulding these agenda's discussing mass microchipping of the populations, you'll just call it 'crap' and move on anyway...

And Charles Manson said there'd be an upcoming race war, so what? People say a lot of things.

So, are you asking, or do you really wanna know, cause unless you really wanna know, I'm not gonna waste time searching for anything more then specifics about the companies involved in making implantable microchips for the millitary, some bars use microchips like a 'VIP pass'

I'm not debating that this is happening, my contention is that it isnt nearly as sinister as you try to make it out to be and there's no real reason to believe it's ever going to be mandatory.

I could say that there's an agenda to move all currency to implanted chips, that you won't accept.

I totally believe it and I support it.

That is true, but if that's your only access point to your bank account, opens the doors at your office, unlicks your car door, turns off your security system as you walk in, and other 'useful' functions... you don't have much motivation to 'break it'...

My point was that it's a location where the chip becomes damaged easily, a poor place to put it.

It's a matter of depth, on the surface is the forehead, probably a 1/2 inch of skull, and an inch in the frontal lobe.

Have you actually seen an RFID chip?

BBC NEWS | Health | Scientists develop 'brain chip'
Bionic brain chips could overcome paralysis - health - 01 September 2009 - New Scientist
BBC NEWS | Health | Brain chip reads man's thoughts

Just on a 30 second search.

Swing and a miss, I wanted proof of this cancer-causing quality that you alluded to earlier.

Well, it depends on the intention, you really do have to weigh the specific positives and negatives. I'm not 100% that this bill specifically intends implantable chips, because a new card could also be implanted with a chip and is much less invasive

/thread

BmanMcfly · Apr 3, 2010

Hoplite said:
And Charles Manson said there'd be an upcoming race war, so what? People say a lot of things.

Ok, sure, Joe schmoe down the street talking smack about something is meaningless... but when you're talking multi-generational billionaires that have their hands in virtually every industry... and a track record of accuracy in their 'predictions'.

I'm not debating that this is happening, my contention is that it isnt nearly as sinister as you try to make it out to be and there's no real reason to believe it's ever going to be mandatory.

The agenda is not to make it INITIALLY mandatory in anyway, just that it's going to become prevalent in more and more ways untill such a minority remain unchipped that they can make it mandatory and not meet any significant resistance.

I totally believe it and I support it.

You do realize that having a 'chip' on your credit card, means that anyone that has a Mcguyver'd up reader can gather your credit card, passport, or whatever other data containing those chips... without ever even touching you.

If one was so inclined, one could also procure a machine to make credit cards, and in an afternoon walking through an airport, one would be able to steal litterally hundreds if not thousands of people's identities...

My point was that it's a location where the chip becomes damaged easily, a poor place to put it.

If it were fit between the bones in your palm, you'd essentially have to end up in a pretty drastic injury.

Have you actually seen an RFID chip?

1 or 2 types... you'd be surprised some of the products that already have chips in them so small that you probably wouldn't know what it was unless you knew what you were looking for... (If you buy gilette razors, they have chips located somewhere on the packaging

)

Swing and a miss, I wanted proof of this cancer-causing quality that you alluded to earlier.

AP Report On RFID Chips And Cancer Raises Concerns

Even though the question you asked was about brain chips... Don't try to move the goalposts, I'll call you on it every time.

/thread

Well, look at the wording... it COULD be talking about implantable chips, or it COULD be a 'card' or some other alternative.

However, I maintain that the agenda is that 20-50 years down the line that everyone on earth be implanted with a tracking chip, track movements, purchases, psychological profile (for advertising purposes)... and that if you happen to speak out against the status quo, then your chip is 'turned off' and for all intents and purposes you will no longer exist.

PonyBoy · Apr 3, 2010

:rofl

If they really think they're gonna start implanting chips in humans then they need to lay off the PCP. They're gonna need quite a few tranquilizer darts to put me down.

BmanMcfly · Apr 3, 2010

PonyBoy said:
:rofl

If they really think they're gonna start implanting chips in humans then they need to lay off the PCP. They're gonna need quite a few tranquilizer darts to put me down.

The same types of sources call for reduction in human numbers to a more 'manageable' 500million-1billion world wide... so, even if they are honestly believing they can pull it off, I don't expect that you or I will be around to have to worry about it.

Then again, I don't know about anywhere else, but where I live they've even started discussing giving the homeless 'biometric ID's' ... which is a slightly different concept but similar effect.

Hoplite · Apr 5, 2010

BmanMcfly said:
Ok, sure, Joe schmoe down the street talking smack about something is meaningless... but when you're talking multi-generational billionaires that have their hands in virtually every industry... and a track record of accuracy in their 'predictions'.

Predictions such as?

The agenda is not to make it INITIALLY mandatory in anyway, just that it's going to become prevalent in more and more ways untill such a minority remain unchipped that they can make it mandatory and not meet any significant resistance.

It's difficult to buy or sell without credit cards and yet those dont seem to be mandatory.

You do realize that having a 'chip' on your credit card, means that anyone that has a Mcguyver'd up reader can gather your credit card, passport, or whatever other data containing those chips... without ever even touching you.

They already have said chips in cards and those only work once you get a few centimeters away from the card. Can you provide data to support that theft of personal financial information due to people surreptitiously scanning these PayPass chips is a problem?

If one was so inclined, one could also procure a machine to make credit cards, and in an afternoon walking through an airport, one would be able to steal litterally hundreds if not thousands of people's identities...

Then one would wake up, because it's not that simple.

If it were fit between the bones in your palm, you'd essentially have to end up in a pretty drastic injury.

It's still likely. A better place would be the shoulder or chest. I'd personally want to get one in the neck, injuries there are often not compatible with life.

1 or 2 types... you'd be surprised some of the products that already have chips in them so small that you probably wouldn't know what it was unless you knew what you were looking for... (If you buy gilette razors, they have chips located somewhere on the packaging )

Ok, I love Shadowrun as much as anyone else, but I'm gonna have to ask for proof about this, ESPECIALLY the razor packaging.

AP Report On RFID Chips And Cancer Raises Concerns

Even though the question you asked was about brain chips... Don't try to move the goalposts, I'll call you on it every time.

My original question was on RFID chips PERIOD, and you know it. This report cites wildly varying information suggesting there is something else at work that warrants further study.

Well, look at the wording... it COULD be talking about implantable chips, or it COULD be a 'card' or some other alternative.

You're wetting your pants about "mandatory chipping" and you arent even sure if the bill calls for anything remotely like it.

However, I maintain that the agenda is that 20-50 years down the line that everyone on earth be implanted with a tracking chip, track movements, purchases, psychological profile (for advertising purposes)... and that if you happen to speak out against the status quo, then your chip is 'turned off' and for all intents and purposes you will no longer exist.

You are perfectly allowed to have your paranoid fantasies, just dont go rubbing people's faces in them unless you have proof

BmanMcfly · Apr 6, 2010

Hoplite said:
Predictions such as?

The process through which the 'Euro' currency would be created before even Germany had been united.

http://mirror.wikileaks.info/wiki/leak/bilderberg-history-1956.pdf

It's difficult to buy or sell without credit cards and yet those dont seem to be mandatory.

They already have said chips in cards and those only work once you get a few centimeters away from the card. Can you provide data to support that theft of personal financial information due to people surreptitiously scanning these PayPass chips is a problem?

[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmajlKJlT3U"]YouTube- How to hack RFID-enabled Credit Cards for $8 (BBtv)[/nomedia]

Then one would wake up, because it's not that simple.

No, it's another matter to get that information onto another card that would look real enough to be used, but once you have the data, does it really matter if they empty your bank account that day or the next month?

It's still likely. A better place would be the shoulder or chest. I'd personally want to get one in the neck, injuries there are often not compatible with life.

lol.

Ok, I love Shadowrun as much as anyone else, but I'm gonna have to ask for proof about this, ESPECIALLY the razor packaging.

My original question was on RFID chips PERIOD, and you know it. This report cites wildly varying information suggesting there is something else at work that warrants further study.

Ok.. so it's not at the point where we could say that RFID's do definitively cause cancer... but the link is being made.

You're wetting your pants about "mandatory chipping" and you arent even sure if the bill calls for anything remotely like it.

I know the agenda is real... but the text cited in the bill is ambiguous enough that it's not necessarily an 'implantable chip' as much as a 'new system of data processing'... which may include the use of this type of technology.

You are perfectly allowed to have your paranoid fantasies, just dont go rubbing people's faces in them unless you have proof

Here's the problem with that :

No matter what source I tell you, I could have the founder of verichip saying : "I want to have every single human implanted with a chip in the next 20 years, and we'll accomplish that goal by ______" and it would be 'denied' either claiming 'out of context quote', or claiming that he's talking about something else...

I COULD show you the ways in which people are being implanted with these chips presently... it would be up to you to project that into the future potential outcomes...

However, I'm pretty sick of going through digging around for an hour sometimes trying to find the specific references that I'll have picked up some years earlier, only to be told that it 'doesn't count' for some arbitrary reason.

Hoplite · Apr 7, 2010

BmanMcfly said:
The process through which the 'Euro' currency would be created before even Germany had been united.

http://mirror.wikileaks.info/wiki/leak/bilderberg-history-1956.pdf

Unified currency has been thrown around as an idea since we've HAD currency. Predicting the sun coming up is not exactly a brilliant feat.

YouTube- How to hack RFID-enabled Credit Cards for $8 (BBtv)

Ok, two things.

First, if this is so easy, why isn't EVERYONE doing it? I'll give you a hint, there's probably something that wasn't mentioned in the totally amateur and unsourced webcast, shocker.

Second, looking at the screen, the reader didn't seem to be able to capture the credit card number. For those of you playing along at home, that's kinda important.

No, it's another matter to get that information onto another card that would look real enough to be used, but once you have the data, does it really matter if they empty your bank account that day or the next month?

Again, if it were that easy, why arent more people doing it?

Easy and effective ways to make money dont usually STAY easy or effective exactly BECAUSE they're easy and effective so everyone wants to do it.

gillette_flint_box.jpg[/IMG]

That's it? Really? One tiny crappy unsourced photo of a white dot inside a piece of packaging?

Do you see anything wrong with this or do I need to explain it?

Ok.. so it's not at the point where we could say that RFID's do definitively cause cancer... but the link is being made.

Mkay well when it is, we'll talk.

I know the agenda is real

And I know New Coke was better than Classic Coke

... but the text cited in the bill is ambiguous enough that it's not necessarily an 'implantable chip' as much as a 'new system of data processing'... which may include the use of this type of technology.

So then why are you hemorrhaging paranoia?

Here's the problem with that :

No matter what source I tell you, I could have the founder of verichip saying : "I want to have every single human implanted with a chip in the next 20 years, and we'll accomplish that goal by ______" and it would be 'denied' either claiming 'out of context quote', or claiming that he's talking about something else...

Because you dont seem to get that I dont CARE what some dipstick says and that I actually care about credibility and verification.

I COULD show you the ways in which people are being implanted with these chips presently... it would be up to you to project that into the future potential outcomes...

You mean to invent something that isnt currently happening and that there are no solid plans for? Fantasy isnt a good scheme to politic about.

However, I'm pretty sick of going through digging around for an hour sometimes trying to find the specific references that I'll have picked up some years earlier, only to be told that it 'doesn't count' for some arbitrary reason.

Yes, lack of sources and clearly faulty citations are just SO the new THING. Maybe if we abided by the rules of a formal discussion, we'd get taken seriously, mmm?

BmanMcfly · Apr 7, 2010

Hoplite said:
Ok, two things.

First, if this is so easy, why isn't EVERYONE doing it? I'll give you a hint, there's probably something that wasn't mentioned in the totally amateur and unsourced webcast, shocker.

Getting the data is easy... putting it to use in a fraudulent manner is somewhat more complicated.

Second, looking at the screen, the reader didn't seem to be able to capture the credit card number. For those of you playing along at home, that's kinda important.

That was done as an illustration, the numbers blocked out was to not show someones credit card number on youtube... can't say I'd blame them.

Again, if it were that easy, why arent more people doing it?

Identity theft is probably slightly more common then you might expect... not that it's running rampant, but it happens quite a bit.

Easy and effective ways to make money dont usually STAY easy or effective exactly BECAUSE they're easy and effective so everyone wants to do it.

Getting the data = easy.. putting the data to a useable form > easy.

Though, just pullng someone's card number, expiry date and access code would be enough to spend it in ways...

That's it? Really? One tiny crappy unsourced photo of a white dot inside a piece of packaging?

Your unsourced opinion... how big do you expect the unsourced chips to be??? The injectable varieties of these chips are the size of an unsourced grain of rice... you asked where it was located... so I showed you. if you happen to buy a pack of gillette razors you'll know how to find it.

Seeing it in your hand is a different story...now you at least know where to look... so because unsourced questions have been answered, I think it's kinda rediculous to throw in unsourced in ways that are not even really relevant.

Do you see anything wrong with this or do I need to explain it?

You'll have to explain it because you didn't think they were there... I showed you were to find it, now you're unhappy cause it's so small... the chips are small, that's where you'll find it, if you get a pack peel it out, you'll probably have a 'holy shyt' moment cause you'll realize it's not made up.... it's hard to debunk something when you can touch it in your own hands, right?

Mkay well when it is, we'll talk.

It just seems to cause cancer in the animals they test it in... perfectly safe. Best thing since breakfast.

So then why are you hemorrhaging paranoia?

I'm not... I'm trying to explain the realities of the situation within the confines of the MSM (because everybody knows if it's not on the evening news it doesn't exist). We're not in the 80's anymore... when you can say 'it'll never happen'... when it's already happening.

Because you dont seem to get that I dont CARE what some dipstick says and that I actually care about credibility and verification.

I could give you credibility... the people talking about microchipping everybody are the same people that described their plan to unite germany to protect europe from encroaching communism, so that they could then have the means to unify europe under a single banner and then to create a common european currency... some 50 years before it happened, and detailing the processes through which each task would be accomplshed. These are the SAME PEOPLE that decided a year in advance that oil prices would more then double over the following year (60$ / barrel - > 150$ / barrel), and so on...

I just know that you would call this group of internationalist BILLIONAIRES 'dipsticks' even if you saw the words they wrote down.

You mean to invent something that isnt currently happening and that there are no solid plans for? Fantasy isnt a good scheme to politic about.

Ok... eat your words again (although you'll move the goal posts or deny it somehow, you're skills at denialism are quite strong)

BBC NEWS | Technology | Barcelona clubbers get chipped - RFID implant for VIP access
New NXP RFID Chips Bring Multiple Functions to Item-Level Tagging - RFID Journal - RFID Item level tagging
RFIDNews | Mexican firm offers RFID implants for kidnapping prevention - implanted in children for 'kidnapping prevention'
RFIDNews | RFID implants to go retail - This one seems relevant to the section of the bill in the OP (for seniors to not have to carry their information... like an injected medicalert bracelet)

Yes, lack of sources and clearly faulty citations are just SO the new THING. Maybe if we abided by the rules of a formal discussion, we'd get taken seriously, mmm?

Yes, but when the delusions, and intellectual dishonest come into play, especially in topics such as these, it doesn't matter WHAT the sources are, it will be denied somehow...

It's to the point where the discussion is so predictable it makes me laugh out loud... in reality, many don't want to know the truth about a subject and just ask so that they can make the next point... you'll notice that everywhere except the one area you've asked for sources, I've provided and you've come up with pretty weak excuses as to why it doesn't count.

Hoplite · Apr 7, 2010

BmanMcfly said:
Getting the data is easy... putting it to use in a fraudulent manner is somewhat more complicated.

So then what's the problem?

Though, just pullng someone's card number, expiry date and access code would be enough to spend it in ways...

So why isnt it a widespread problem?

Your unsourced opinion... how big do you expect the unsourced chips to be??? The injectable varieties of these chips are the size of an unsourced grain of rice... you asked where it was located... so I showed you. if you happen to buy a pack of gillette razors you'll know how to find it.

You cant even tell me if that was a chip, a piece of packaging, or put in there for the photo. I cant even see what it is.

Even if it is a chip and not faked, who cares? What does having an RFID chip in the products you buy harm you?

You'll have to explain it because you didn't think they were there... I showed you were to find it, now you're unhappy cause it's so small... the chips are small, that's where you'll find it, if you get a pack peel it out, you'll probably have a 'holy shyt' moment cause you'll realize it's not made up.... it's hard to debunk something when you can touch it in your own hands, right?

Im unhappy because you show me a crappy photo then expect me to have an OHMYGAWD moment for some reason I cant entirely discern.

Especially when a frickin' Google search turns up WHY the packages are chipped and it has nothing sinister attached to it.

Case Study: Gillette shaves costs with RFID - How-to - Techworld.com
Gillette Razors Get New Edge: RFID Tags -- Wireless -- InformationWeek

This is called technology, it advances. Why is this a problem?

It just seems to cause cancer in the animals they test it in... perfectly safe. Best thing since breakfast.

You just got done admitting there wasnt a link YET

I'm not... I'm trying to explain the realities of the situation within the confines of the MSM (because everybody knows if it's not on the evening news it doesn't exist). We're not in the 80's anymore... when you can say 'it'll never happen'... when it's already happening.

Except it's not happening quite the way you seem to want it to.

Ok... eat your words again (although you'll move the goal posts or deny it somehow, you're skills at denialism are quite strong)

BBC NEWS | Technology | Barcelona clubbers get chipped - RFID implant for VIP access
New NXP RFID Chips Bring Multiple Functions to Item-Level Tagging - RFID Journal - RFID Item level tagging
RFIDNews | Mexican firm offers RFID implants for kidnapping prevention - implanted in children for 'kidnapping prevention'
RFIDNews | RFID implants to go retail - This one seems relevant to the section of the bill in the OP (for seniors to not have to carry their information... like an injected medicalert bracelet)

I have never once decried the use of RFID tags. My point is (and has been) that there is no serious push by anybody with the pull to accomplish it to make RFID tags mandatory in the citizenry.

What you are doing is taking advancing technology and making a scare case out of it.

It's to the point where the discussion is so predictable it makes me laugh out loud... in reality, many don't want to know the truth about a subject and just ask so that they can make the next point... you'll notice that everywhere except the one area you've asked for sources, I've provided and you've come up with pretty weak excuses as to why it doesn't count.

If you dont back up what you claim with something concrete and verifiable, people wont take what you say seriously. It's NOT that difficult to do.

Reconciliation Act H.R.4872 Brings Microchipping to America

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