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For the UFO/aliens visiting earth skeptics

OscarLevant said:
There are definite photos galore of alien space craft. Just look for them.

Also, aliens are operating clandestinely, for most of the time, and they can render a craft invisible to radar and human detection at will.

In more than one nuke missile silo, when UFOs were observed by multiple enlisted and officer personel, dozens of nuke silos went offline Not that each silo is completely independent of the other. This is recorded fact, look it up.

also, if the gov is covering them up, and they are, the really good photos aren't being released.
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I don't believe it.
 
OscarLevant said:
Think about it.
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If someone wants to believe or investigate if UFO sightings are extra-terrestrials visiting the earth, that's fine by me. I feel uncomfortable venturing in to that territory because it doesn't really have scientific credibility or really command institutional authority in looking in to these kind of claims. Perhaps there is something in them, but the amount of work to track down the one real one is going to take a life time going through all the other ones that could be explained away. It doesn't seem a very profitable investment of time when there are so many problems we could look at solving here on earth. But if someone wants to be a visionary and chase the stars- I'm not going to stop you. I'm only too happy to see someone like Elon Musk put their own fortune in to trying to make space travel commercially viable and I wish we have more ambitious goals for space exploration. There is a whole universe out there where mankind has never set foot or watched a sun rise or a sun set. I would prefer we start that chapter of human exploration and discovery sooner rather than later.

Without knowing much about the subject of UFOs, I just assume it's pretty egotistical on our part to believe the rest of the universe would be so interested in us. Any alien civilisation capable of travelling such vast distances to actually visit us, will think us extremely primitive. I mean, we power our civilisation by digging stuff out of the ground and burning it. As far as interstellar travellers are concerned, we basically are still running around naked, living in mud huts, willing to go to war over our sky gods and destroy ourselves and each other for precious metals at this stage of development. Beyond merely existing and breathing, we haven't done much yet to really draw attention to ourselves. A civilisation that has existed for millions or billions of years and has travelled through solar systems and galaxies, will see us very differently from how we see ourselves. We still think we are the centre of the universe and everything revolves around us and it's not true but we have a lot of growing up to do before we can accept that. We have sent out radio and television signals, gone to the moon and sent out a few satellites in to our solar system in only a few decades. Get close enough and you'll see we've left the lights on when we go to sleep on the dark side of the planet. In the vastness of time and space, it's probably like "blink and you miss it" situation for anyone trying to find us.

Aliens might introduce themselves out of scientific curiosity to learn more about us or maybe be interested in trade. Conquest seems a little over blown as there is so much empty space out there which could be colonised and terra-formed in to habitable planets. The motives for contact and sustaining it so that we become aware of it are pretty limited.

Until I see some major announcement by the scientific community to the effect of "the martians have landed", I'm comfortable leaving it at that. For what I have read, I believe "first contact" may be something more mundane like a radio transmission rather than a face-to-face contact on our planet itself.

Speaking of Carl Sagan, if you ever haven't seen the film "contact" yet you will want to take a look. I still like the scene where the aliens send back out first transmission if only for the irony of it. This is not how we'd want to introduce ourselves to the neighbours. :D

 
OscarLevant said:
You never get an honest answer? Have you even researched this to any degree at all?

There are tons of photos of alien space craft. If you don't know this, it demonstrates you are not curious.

But, why even do that, because when skeptics are shown photos, they jsut say they are fake.

Here's an old 40s circa 40s kgb video on a real alien, just go on youtube, and search for 'skinny bob'. ( that's the internet nick name for the guy', and there's a lot of videos on the same thing, with analysis done. )

Also, read Dr. David Jacob's "Walking Among Us', and explains, in great detail, that they are operating clandestinely and have mastered cloaking technology, they can render their ships invisible. they can do things we would call 'magic'. But, yesterday's magic is today's science .

In the film era, hoax were done by hanging things like hubcaps on a thin wire. Today, it's much easier to hoax, with digital graphics technology.
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Baloney, I used to be all into UFO's, I realized its all just a way for charlatans to make money...Same old garbage, same old players.
 
beefheart said:
Baloney, I used to be all into UFO's, I realized its all just a way for charlatans to make money...Same old garbage, same old players.
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Have you seen that hilarious Roswell alien autopsy movie? Filmed without sound by the US government in glorious Super 8 and the 'pathologists' are holding their scalpels wrongly. Skinny Bob is a hoax.
 
zyzygy said:
Have you seen that hilarious Roswell alien autopsy movie? Filmed without sound by the US government in glorious Super 8 and the 'pathologists' are holding their scalpels wrongly. Skinny Bob is a hoax.
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Yeah, Bob was outed by the prop guy who made him. :)
 
zyzygy said:
Have you seen that hilarious Roswell alien autopsy movie? Filmed without sound by the US government in glorious Super 8 and the 'pathologists' are holding their scalpels wrongly. Skinny Bob is a hoax.
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Yeah, and that loser Stanton Friedman spent decades schlepping our his debunked MJ12 crap for whoever would pay him, never producing anything of value.
 
calamity said:
Because most (if not all) of the claims about that god have been proven to be bull****. Same applies to the other gods thus far defined and explained.

The only god not yet proven to be made up is the one who does mysterious things from a mysterious place that no one understands. Now, if you want to argue that this "Christian God" is that god, well, we might have room to say--m'kay.


Uh, no.
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My [Christian] God is the only true God. Prove he doesn't exist.
 
WCH said:
My [Christian] God is the only true God. Prove he doesn't exist.
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Lord Krishna is the only true god. If you can prove that he does not exist then I will use the same method on your god.
 
WCH said:
Answer the first part. The second is merely a theory.
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Your first part was this

Space aliens are probably a thousand times more probable than the Christian God.
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And you are asking:

Why specifically the Christian God?
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The Christian God concept is just one of thousands of Gods invented and conceived from the fertile imaginations of humans. The other main religion is Islam, which I consider equally preposterous. I wasn't brought up under Islam and I live in America, so there is no use in me talking about Islam or any other belief system currently in existence or that have come and gone. The entire story reeks of fabrication and wishful thinking and is based primarily on the writings of one man called Paul, whose hallucinations and diatribes take up nearly half the NT and were/are the very first writings. We are to believe he had a vision. WHY should we believe this? Because he said so and many others believed him because of his oratory skills and powers of persuasion? Because he had a conversion from persecuting Christians to joining them/

Visions in those days were a dime a dozen, as were beliefs in miracles. For that matter, other so called gods were born without the benefit of sexual intercourse and others left earth without dying. the alleged sayings of Jesus are highly plagiarized from teachings that predate Christianity by centuries, many of them adopted from Stoicism.

Will that be enough? Nope. Nothing is ever enough for those heavily immersed in the belief system.
 
calamity said:
What would be the longest sustained acceleration a human can withstand--2g?

So, it would take 1/2 year to get up to the speed of light and another 1/2 year to slow down. And, that's assuming we can somehow actually travel at anything even close to that velocity, far from a given. Long story short, you are not getting from here to there in a spaceship.
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Actually, at a constant 1g (9.80665 m/s[SUP]2[/SUP]) acceleration it would take a spacecraft just under 6 years to reach Proxima Centauri (4.244 light years away) from the perspective of the observers on Earth. Assuming they accelerated at 1g to the half-way point, and then decelerated at 1g. From the perspective of those aboard the spacecraft just under 3.6 years will have elapsed. By the time the spacecraft reaches the middle-point and starts its deceleration it will be traveling at 95% the speed of light.

A round-trip journey to Proxima Centauri would take just under 7.2 years from the perspective of those aboard the spacecraft, while just under 12 years will have elapsed on Earth due to time dilation.

The biggest problem is fuel. Even using anti-matter, we could never bring enough fuel along to reach our destination. Fuel would have to be either collected or created along the way.
 
OscarLevant said:
How do you know how these things travel? You are assuming they operate like human space craft?
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Actually, I'm assuming the laws of physics apply everywhere in the universe, not just on Earth.
OscarLevant said:
"they wouldn't....."? How do you know this?
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As I explained, space is hostile to biology. Are you assuming aliens are not biological?

OscarLevant said:
You are assuming they use radio for their communication and detection, how do you know this?
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I'm assuming nothing. The only means of detecting that Earth even has intelligent life is via our transmissions. If we aren't making any noise they can detect, how would they know we even exist?

OscarLevant said:
That's an assumption. There is no way in hell you can assume that aliens a million years more advanced that us are limited by what humans are limited by. Did you not read my OP?
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No, it is not an assumption. Our solar system is between the Sagittarius and Perseus Arms, in what is called the Orion Spur. In the remnants of what was the Orion-Cygnus Arm. The aliens are going to be constrained by the same laws of physics as we are. That is called "reality," you might give it a shot some day.

OscarLevant said:
You are making assumptions arising out of the poverty of man's imagination.
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No, I'm stating physical fact. It is both the ignorance and arrogance of man that makes him think aliens could ever visit Earth.

OscarLevant said:
You assume that an advanced alien spacecraft, which might be bubble wrapped in some kind of shield against radiation and inertia and asteroid issues, will be subject to the kinds of things human space craft will be subject to. How would you know this, and why would you assume it?

Think about what you are saying, man.
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You could make a spacecraft that is practically immune to radiation. We call them planets, and we are living on one. Good luck using it for interstellar travel.

OscarLevant said:
Think about what you are saying, man.
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The problem here is that you aren't thinking about what you are saying. Most of what you claim defies the laws of physics and therefore can be dismissed out of hand. When you get a decent education you will realize that any notion of extra-terrestrial life visiting this planet is completely ludicrous.
 
OscarLevant said:
I imagine some physicist in 1802 said the same thing to a guy who said 'in the future, mankind will invent a ship that can go a decade without refueling'. "basic physics, he argues'.
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Said no one, ever.

OscarLevant said:
There was a time when man believed he could travel no faster than a horse.
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When was this? In what year? You can manufacture any nonsense you like, it doesn't make any of it true. Just a figment of your uneducated imagination.

OscarLevant said:
"basic physics' my ass. If you are limited by the poverty of man's imagination, you'll be a skeptic.
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It is called getting a basic education. You might want to try it some day.
 
Glitch said:
Actually, I'm assuming the laws of physics apply everywhere in the universe, not just on Earth.
As I explained, space is hostile to biology. Are you assuming aliens are not biological?

I'm assuming nothing. The only means of detecting that Earth even has intelligent life is via our transmissions. If we aren't making any noise they can detect, how would they know we even exist?

No, it is not an assumption. Our solar system is between the Sagittarius and Perseus Arms, in what is called the Orion Spur. In the remnants of what was the Orion-Cygnus Arm. The aliens are going to be constrained by the same laws of physics as we are. That is called "reality," you might give it a shot some day.

No, I'm stating physical fact. It is both the ignorance and arrogance of man that makes him think aliens could ever visit Earth.



You could make a spacecraft that is practically immune to radiation. We call them planets, and we are living on one. Good luck using it for interstellar travel.

The problem here is that you aren't thinking about what you are saying. Most of what you claim defies the laws of physics and therefore can be dismissed out of hand. When you get a decent education you will realize that any notion of extra-terrestrial life visiting this planet is completely ludicrous.
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The bolded is the main stumbling block.
 
zyzygy said:
The bolded is the main stumbling block.
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Indeed. It is possible to determine if life exists on any given planet by merely looking at the composition of the atmosphere. If there is detectable oxygen or methane in the atmosphere, then life exists on that planet. However, to determine if intelligent life exists they need to make some kind of artificial signal that can be detected beyond the atmosphere of the planet.

In our case it was radio, followed by TV. However, that window for detection will also be very small. After just a few centuries we will no longer be transmitting into interstellar space because our technology has evolved. It has already begun. We're using fiber-optic cables, cable TV, direct microwave communication and other methods that doesn't "leak" everywhere. Assuming intelligent aliens have a similar evolution, we would be very lucky indeed to be able to detect any alien communications during that very small window when they were leaking all of their transmissions into space.
 
calamity said:
(Snipped for word count Dracula purposes)

My guess--or is that a belief?--is that interstellar travel is likely occurring somewhere by something and has been for some time. But, here's the thing. I can't see that kind of travel involving rocket ships at all.

I envision interstellar travel as something done via wormhole, a machine maybe that bends space and time to suit the "travelers" needs. So, when I hear someone say they saw a UFO, I usually call bull****. But, if that same person said he saw a little green man appear out of the blue, I might go hmmm.
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Read Dr. David Jacob's 'Walking Among Us'
 
beefheart said:
And, element 115 has been discovered, and it is nothing like what Lazar said it was.

Moscovium - Wikipedia
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It's element 115 that is not stable, all they have to do is figure out how to stablize it.

Something about isotopes, I don't understand the stuff, but Lazar talks about it, you should listen to him being interviewed an talking about it,
 
Glitch said:
Consider instead using the Casimir Effect for energy.

What is the Casimir effect? - Scientific American

My personal favorite means of travel would be a hydrogen fusion powered spacecraft, with a hydrogen scoop. When traveling at relativistic speeds, the rarefied hydrogen in interstellar space could be collected for fuel, and at slower than relativistic speeds it could scoop hydrogen from the outer atmosphere of gas giants.

Theoretically speaking, both means of propulsion could be fueled and sustained indefinitely.

The speed of the vessel would still be less than the speed of light, obviously, but it would make interstellar travel possible within human lifespan. Assuming we could build Casimir engines, or develop hydrogen fusion.
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Interstellar travel at the speed of light is way too slow.

Aliens have figured out some other paradigm, which makes linear travel, including all the problems that arise from it, moot.
 
beefheart said:
Element 115 has a half-life of only 0.65 seconds. Not exactly usable. As for "predicting the future, regarding the existence of 115", that isn't predicting the future, its a synthesized element, it doesn't exist in any stable form anywhere. I can predict all kinds of elements after 115, we just haven't made them yet, that is not anything amazing.
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It hasn't been stablized yet. Someday they will, and let's talk about it then.
 
Glitch said:
Indeed. It is possible to determine if life exists on any given planet by merely looking at the composition of the atmosphere. If there is detectable oxygen or methane in the atmosphere, then life exists on that planet. However, to determine if intelligent life exists they need to make some kind of artificial signal that can be detected beyond the atmosphere of the planet.

In our case it was radio, followed by TV. However, that window for detection will also be very small. After just a few centuries we will no longer be transmitting into interstellar space because our technology has evolved. It has already begun. We're using fiber-optic cables, cable TV, direct microwave communication and other methods that doesn't "leak" everywhere. Assuming intelligent aliens have a similar evolution, we would be very lucky indeed to be able to detect any alien communications during that very small window when they were leaking all of their transmissions into space.
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Radio waves, fiber optics, all of the man made things are moot with aliens.

they do telepathy, with telepathy, there is a massive paradigm shift.
 
beefheart said:
Yeah, and that loser Stanton Friedman spent decades schlepping our his debunked MJ12 crap for whoever would pay him, never producing anything of value.
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The som manual has been established as authentic

Stanton gave up a career in nuclear physics for Ufology, which is NOT a lucrative profession.
 
OscarLevant said:
The som manual has been established as authentic

Stanton gave up a career in nuclear physics for Ufology, which is NOT a lucrative profession.
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Authentic by other UFO nuts....that doesn't count.

BS, Friedman was a grifter, pure and simple
 
OscarLevant said:
It hasn't been stablized yet. Someday they will, and let's talk about it then.
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Pray tell, how do you stabilize an unstable synthesized, non natural occurring element?

That is an incredibly lame answer.

Someday llamas will have the ability to fly, let's talk about it then....
 
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